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Ammunition serialization bill (HB 3359)

John Hardin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Snohomish, Washington, USA
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Well, hell. I thought I could trust Rep. Al O'Brien. Now he goes and sponsors this stupidity:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2007-08/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/3359.pdf

Here's what I've written to him:

Rep. O'Brien:

I am writing you to say I was extremely dismayed to hear today that you had cosponsored an ammunition serialization bill this year.

You have portrayed yourself to me in the past as a defender of firearms rights. Supporting - worse yet, sponsoring - legislation of this nature, which will do little to reduce or assist in the investigation of violent crime, yet which greatly increases the cost and burden of lawfully manufacturing and dealing in ammunition and owning and using a firearm, is not what I would expect from someone professing to be a defender of firearms rights.

The manufacture of serialized ammunition as required by this bill - where the serial number on the bullet and the shell casing must match, and all the serial numbers in a given box of ammunition must match - is an extremely expensive proposition, if it is even possible. Ammunition is a bulk commodity produced on high-speed automated machinery by the billions of rounds at low profit margins, not expensive, low-volume, high-profit-margin hand-assembled durable goods.

The ammunition manufacturing trade association NSSF has stated that serialization of ammunition is not practically feasible; requiring serialized ammunition is, essentially, an ammunition ban. Has anyone actually proven to you that it is even possible in practice (versus in the laboratory) to serialize ammunition in the manner you propose?

But let us assume for the sake of argument that it is possible...

Requiring ammunition be serialized will force major (read "expensive") changes in the manufacturing process - essentially, the scrapping and replacement of all existing commercial ammunition production equipment - and will force law-abiding firearm owners to spend even more money to arm themselves in their own defense, while creating a black market in unserialized ammunition for criminal use.

I see no limitation on the range of calibers that must be serialized. Do you intend that extremely inexpensive small calibers (.22LR, .17HMR) be serialized? That requirement could easily triple the cost of such popular ammunition due to the difficulty of serializing such small ammunition that is produced in such huge quantities.

Ammunition manufacturers will likely decide that the significant costs of serializing their product to comply with Washington law outweigh the market benefit from selling ammunition in Washington, and will simply stop selling ammunition in Washington. Again, the burden from this would fall primarily, if not solely, on law-abiding firearm owners. If such comes to pass, would you also criminalize a firearm owner going out-of-state to purchase ammunition that was no longer available in-state because it was not serialized?

I see no exception for hand-loaded ammunition. How would a firearm owner who reloads their own ammunition (as I do, to save money on practice ammunition) comply with this law? Do you simply wish to make it effectively illegal for individual citizens to save money by reloading their own ammunition? Doing so will actually reduce overall safety, as firearm owners will be less able to afford the regular practice that improves safe handling and safe, accurate shooting.

What of the many firearm owners who cast their own bullets? Do you wish to effectively ban that practice as well?

Would a private owner of ammunition be required to demand photo ID and report to the state whom he had sold some of his ammunition to, should he wish to dispose of ammunition he no longer wanted?

Another problem with serialization of ammunition is the ease with which the investigation of a crime could be interfered with. A criminal planning a firearm crime need only go to a shooting range and collect the expended brass from other shooters, then scatter it about the scene of their crime. Again, only law-abiding firearm owners suffer - now they will need to collect and destroy (if they cannot legally reload) all their brass or risk being investigated for a violent crime they did not commit.

Representative O'Brien, you told me you were a defender of firearms rights, and that you would work for me and my rights in Olympia. I trusted you to live up to that claim. I am sorry to put it in such strong terms, but I cannot see this bill as anything less than a cold betrayal of that trust.

Please withdraw this bill, or at the very least, remove your sponsorship and work to see it does not pass.

Thank you.
It seems this is the new nationwide Gun Control tactic.

Related:

http://www.nssf.org/legal/links/alerts/Mississippi.cfm
 

surfj9009

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
639
Location
Spokane, WA, ,
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some ammo is expensive enough as it is! I'm glad I reload. Time to stock up on mass quantities of brass and bullets. This is getting absolutely ridiculous.
 

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
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did i glance at that right?.. you'd get in trouble for destroying the code?

better stop shooting at hard targets...
 

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
imported post

uncoolperson wrote:
did i glance at that right?.. you'd get in trouble for destroying the code?

better stop shooting at hard targets...
For intentionally destroying it. Like if you took the round apart and ground down the numbers. Not for shooting it. It is not your fault if the number does not stand up to normal use of the round.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
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Rep Williams is in my district:X I telephoned him and wrote him concerning this hideous bill.

This bill places an undue burden on law abiding gun owners and law enforcement. Ammunition is a high production low profit product. This absurd notion of placing a serial number on every case and bullet, as well as packaging will place an undue financial burden on every lawful user of handgun ammo, and will create a black market in unmarked ammo.

The state constitution clearly states that the right to bear arms for personal defense and defense of the state shall not be impaired. This is a huge impairment on that right. This will not stop crime, but will cause severe economic harm to manufacturers of ammo, as well placing a crippling burden on decent law abiding citizens and law enforcement who purchase this ammo. I strongly urge you to not support this bill any further and allow it to die the unnatural death that it so deserves. I would appreciate a response on this issue.
 

thewise1

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
383
Location
Moscow, ID
imported post

[sub][sup]This is getting ridiculous, folks. I am not at all kidding when I spend an hour a day anymore writing my representatives and telling them to not support these shit bills.

Every day there are more of them, too.

WTF.[/sup]

[/sub]
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
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Aug 15, 2007
Messages
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Location
Olympia, WA, ,
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We need to work on organizing a LARGE group to demonstrate at the Capitol. Probably too late for this year, but next year there HAS to be a demonstration. This is getting insane. As a voting bloc we are not to be trifled with. Heck, I've been told the ATV crowd has successfully cowed the Legislature, if they can do it, we can.
 

TechnoWeenie

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Jul 17, 2007
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, ,
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So uhh... how are law enforcement agencies supposed to comply with this? Do they realize they'll wipe out a few budgets with this new 'requirement'....??

Or, they can exempt police departments from that requirement, which would mean any bullet found in a dead body WITHOUT a marking means the police must have done it!:celebrate

lol
 

Charles Paul Lincoln

Regular Member
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Jan 14, 2008
Messages
222
Location
Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
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What an insane bill -- more feel-good legislation for the election year!:banghead: The liberal gun-grabbers don't seem to realize that criminals steal guns, so they can steal ammo, too. Do they really think the gang-bangers walk into WalMart and buy ammo? It comes from all over, and much of it through strawman purchases. I can just see them running serial numbers from a drive-by and finding ten different numbers from ten different boxes of ammo.

Realistically, this probably won't go anywhere because the fiscal note from DOL will be in the millions of dollars. It seems like any legislation this year with large fiscal notes will stall, but we still need to educate legislators how stupid this is.:cuss:

More letters to write . . .
 

Sean

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
58
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
imported post

so I guess we all go to Oregan or Idaho to buy ammo now. Just how big do these idiots think a bullet is to hold non repeating alpha numeric numbers....pretty soon we will all have to have 20mm pistols just so the number will fit.



Do we pay these idiots for their time thinking up asinine things like this?
 

Marty Hayes

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Sep 10, 2007
Messages
135
Location
, ,
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This won't go anywhere. Greguire cannot afford to piss off gun owners by signing such non-sense. Frankly, I wish it would pass, as it would be the death kneel for Queen Christine, and Dino Rossi would thenmake sure it was repealed before it came to be in effect.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
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Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
So uhh... how are law enforcement agencies supposed to comply with this? Do they realize they'll wipe out a few budgets with this new 'requirement'....??


Oh, I don't know. Low budgets might be kinda entertaining. :)

http://tinyurl.com/2at5aj

(+5 points if you can stand watching it all the way to the end. :))
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
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Olympia, WA, ,
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Didn't there used to be some sort of ammo registration requirments with one of the early GCA laws? Finally got tossed out because it was nearly impossible to enforce?
 

Bear 45/70

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May 22, 2007
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Location
Union, Washington, USA
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sv_libertarian wrote:
Didn't there used to be some sort of ammo registration requirments with one of the early GCA laws? Finally got tossed out because it was nearly impossible to enforce?
The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia passed this legislation even after being advise by their own people who investigated if it could be done, that the technology did not exist to do this at this time. So law makers don't carry about facts of even if it is feasible, just so they can claim they did something.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
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Aug 15, 2007
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Olympia, WA, ,
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PRK passed a microstamping bill...

I was trying to remember something I read that was associated with the GCA of 1968 or whatever the one was that happened after JFK got shot. Something that required record keeping on all ammo sales...

Hawaii and one other state (I can't recall which one) also have introduced serialization bills. Kalifornia looked at serialization but even they gave it up. But then they passed that microstamping BS...
 
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