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Thread: Utahn MIGHT be coming to Nevada...

  1. #1
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    Ok. In about 3 or 4 weeks I might be coming down to L.V and I do have a Utah Permit which is now in reciprocity with Nevada. FINALLY. CanI carry at the Airport? ( I can here in Utah), can I carry in a bar/anything that serves alcohol? ( I can here in Utah). What are, if any, the restrictions to OC in LV itself. These Q's are both for CCW AND OCing. I don't find the answers very satisfying that I google. Can anyone PLEASE tell me what goes and what does not. I realize that I am coming from a State where I can carry anywhere I want except in "secure" areas.

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    76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited -- Penalty.
    (1) In addition to the definitions in Section 76-10-501, as used in this section:
    (a) "Correctional facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-8-311.3.
    (b) "Explosive" has the same meaning as defined for "explosive, chemical, or incendiary device" defined in Section 76-10-306.
    (c) "Law enforcement facility" means a facility which is owned, leased, or operated by a law enforcement agency.
    (d) "Mental health facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 62A-15-602.
    (e) (i) "Secure area" means any area into which certain persons are restricted from transporting any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
    (ii) A "secure area" may not include any area normally accessible to the public.
    (2) (a) A person in charge of a correctional, law enforcement, or mental health facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
    (b) Subsections (2)(a), (3), (4), (5), and (6) apply to higher education secure area hearing rooms referred to in Subsections 53B-3-103(2)(a)(ii) and (b).
    (3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to an area in which a firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive is restricted.
    (4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.
    (b) The entity operating the facility shall be responsible for weapons while they are stored in the storage area.
    (5) It is a defense to any prosecution under this section that the accused, in committing the act made criminal by this section, acted in conformity with the facility's rule or policy established pursuant to this section.
    (6) (a) Any person who knowingly or intentionally transports into a secure area of a facility any firearm, ammunition, or dangerous weapon is guilty of a third degree felony.
    (b) Any person violates Section 76-10-306 who knowingly or intentionally transports, possesses, distributes, or sells any explosive in a secure area of a facility.
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    In other words in Utah I can pretty much carry anywhere I want, wether OCing or CCWing.

    Give me the "speil" PLEASE.

    TJ

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    If it's concealed upon your person, you may not have it in any public building at the airport. Basically, NOWHERE concealed. Open carry is completely legal within the unsecure areas, like baggage claim, ticket counters, etc.

    You can OC or CC anywhere that serves/sells alcohol, and can even drink (if otherwise legal to do so) so long as your blood alcohol level doesn't pass 0.10 (0.08 is the DUI limit)... I personally choose not to OC while at the bar. Whether it's legal or not, a visible firearm while parked at the video poker machine and drinking a beer is an invitation for trouble in more ways than one.

    Standard private property rules apply. Trespassing only if you refuse to leave after being asked in person. Signs are irrelevant (because of course, you never saw their sign and are not required to know the policies of the business you are patronizing, unless it's a member only place like Sam's Club or Costco which has terms and conditions you agreed to prior to shopping there...and even then, it's not criminal, only civil, unless you're asked personally to leave and do not).

    Casinos will give you a hard time in Las Vegas and Henderson if you attempt to OC. They'll either ask you to leave or require you to checkin the firearm at the security desk...just conceal it well and you'll be fine. Just don't drink too much, OK? Rural areas like Pahrump and northern NV like Reno are more lenient (so I hear).

    LE is pretty knowledgeable about these laws and generally won't hassle you. No requirement to notify LE during a traffic stop. Concealed carry anywhere in the vehicle is OK with or without a permit. Concealed upon your person with permit only.

    Concealed does not require completely concealed. For example, you can use an OWB holster and cover with jacket so it's sometimes visible.

    No limits on ammo type, magazine size, and its OK to carry with one in the pipe.

    Hope these basics cover it for you. Post any other specific questions....

    Tim


    Edited...typos!

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    Thanks. That was very helpful.

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    Nevada law does not preclude concealed carry by those with a permit anywhere accept:

    Buildings at the airport
    Schools and child care facilities
    Posted "public buildings" or "public buildings" with metal detectors, read that to mean government buildings

    Anywhere else is OK as long as you keep it concealed. That includes bars and restaurants, casinos, tattoo shops, etc. Anywhere!

    Nevada is a defacto open carry state but you may be subject to questioning if you do this on The Strip, for instance, and most casinos will make you leave if you open carry on their property. If they see your gun they can throw you out and you have to go under Nevada's trespass laws. Of course, under those laws they can throw you out without having any reason at all.

    NRS 202.3673 NRS: CHAPTER 202 - CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY

    Ken

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    I agree with the other posts.

    Ifound out the hard way... Do not open carry in any Mesquite, NV casinos (keep it concealed and don't ask, don't tell). All of the casinos (with the exception of the Eureka) are owned by the Black family, and I found out they have a ban on guns. The Eureka has a no gun sign.

    I asked security once at the Oasis if I could enter a bar while carrying concealed (they were wanding customers). They impolitely escorted me to the door and drug me over to have a conversation with a Mesquite LEO. The LEO was more polite, but still a little confused on the law.

    To avoid harassment you should probably keep it concealed anytime you enter any casino in Southern Nevada.

    Also, you should know that like Utah signs do not have any weight according to the law. The only exception is a public building. Nevada defines public buildings as one occupied by any type of state, local, or federal goverment. If a government building has a sign they can prohibit concealed carry.

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    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.

    2. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building that is located on the property of a public airport.

    3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

    (a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    4. The provisions of paragraph (b) of subsection 3 do not prohibit:

    (a) A permittee who is a judge from carrying a concealed firearm in the courthouse or courtroom in which he presides or from authorizing a permittee to carry a concealed firearm while in the courtroom of the judge and while traveling to and from the courtroom of the judge.

    (b) A permittee who is a prosecuting attorney of an agency or political subdivision of the United States or of this State from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of a public building.

    (c) A permittee who is employed in the public building from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building.

    (d) A permittee from carrying a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building if the permittee has received written permission from the person in control of the public building to carry a concealed firearm while the permittee is on the premises of the public building.

    5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

    6. As used in this section:

    (a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.

    (b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:

    (1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or

    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose.

    Ê If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.

    (Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914)



    So while any public building may limit you with proper signage & metaldetectorsfrom concealed carry inside, only a federal building prohibits open carry I believe, as well as schools and child care facilities.

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    So while any public building may limit you with proper signage & metaldetectorsfrom concealed carry inside, only a federal building prohibits open carry I believe, as well as schools and child care facilities.
    I would really appreciate it if one of you very knowledgeable folks would walk into the Clark County Municiple Building open carrying.

    Walk right up to the officer at the door and say "I know that concealed carry is prohibited in this building but open carry is OK, right."

    Please post here and let us know what happens. Thanks.

    Ken

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    I go into the Clark County building all the time.Whenever I go there I'm in a rush to get my work done, and its always easier to leave the gun in the car than deal with it.

    I'd like to see an effort of multiple people beginning to openly carry in all of the posted public buildings, especially the Clark County buildings. Something similar to what has happened in Virginia where people always expose their firearm when entering a restaurant.

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    In other words, you cannot conceal in the unsecured public buildings in an airport, but you can open carry?

    And I read the law posted to mean that facilities that ban carry of weapons within their premesis must provide secure storage for the weapon? Do places in fact provide such services there, or is that an ignored part of the law?

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    I think you are confusing the laws of the two states, Utah and Nevada. The first law that was posted is for Utah. Utah requires storage for firearms prior to any secure area. Some places in Utah have storage, while others don't.

    In Nevada, it is my understanding that open carry is allowed in the non-secure areas of airports, and in posted public buildings.

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    Has anyone actually open carried in any of these places? I think you will be arrested.



    Ken

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    CowboyKen wrote:
    Has anyone actually open carried in any of these places? I think you will be arrested.



    Ken




    Possibly, but what would they charge you with? For a (non-federal, non NHSE, non school/child care)public building that had no signs whatsoever I would treat it just like any other building.

    For ones with signs it can get more tricky.

    I've considered the library which states "No firearms per NRS 202.3673" [State law says that public buildings may prohibit "CONCEALED" firearms by stating such on all enterances.]but deepinside the library, thereare also Washoe Countyrules posted "prohibiting weapons"with the penalty oftemporarily expelling violators.http://www.washoe.lib.nv.us/mod.php?...d=196&menu= This I believewould contradict state law. (Nevada law says that localities cannot have stricter laws than the state, meaning the Washoe County regulations prohibiting weaponsin the library is meaningless... [Clark County registration was grandfathered in])

    There was a previous thread I started about it here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/6938.html

    One might need some considerable time and energy to fight it though.


    As far as private buildings such as casinos and resturaunts I've carried into both with no trouble so far. The most they can do is make you leave.





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    As to "private buildings such as casinos and resturaunts" I do not believe that there is any issue at all.

    As to "public buildings" IANAL and am not sure if they would charge you or not.

    NRS 202.3673(3)(b): "A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building..." This is the only place in this section where the word "firearms" appears without being preceded by the word "concealed."

    I would not be surpised if they took you into custody and/or confiscated your firearm. If they took your gun away what would/could you do about it? Seems like a price I am not willing to pay to find out.

    Ken

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    [It would definitely be a pain to deal with no doubt about it. A hi-point might do well, as you wouldn't miss it so much! You would have to prove that it was wrongly siezed.

    The law only says that one may not carry a concealed firearm though, if there is a sign indicating that no firearms are permitted.

    (3)3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

    (b)A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building

    ...

    I wonder, if one asked ahead of time the Attorney General and came with a written explanation, or perhaps just tried to challenge the washoe county library rules (whichsay no weapons whatsoever)which seem to be a violation of state lawwithout going inside if one could have an effect without taking such a large personal risk.
    ....


    For a public building that had no signage or stated ruleswhatsoever, but is operated by the localgovernment, there should be no concern though.








    ...



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    CowboyKen wrote:
    As to "private buildings such as casinos and resturaunts" I do not believe that there is any issue at all.

    As to "public buildings" IANAL and am not sure if they would charge you or not.

    NRS 202.3673 (3)(b): "A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building..." This is the only place in this section where the word "firearms" appears without being preceded by the word "concealed."

    I would not be surpised if they took you into custody and/or confiscated your firearm. If they took your gun away what would/could you do about it? Seems like a price I am not willing to pay to find out.

    Ken
    The code section you referenced is under the Concealed Weapons part of the law. In fact, read the very beginning sentence of that code and you'll see:

    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    As no permit is needed to openly carry a firearm, you are not a permittee of anything if openly carrying. Therefore, this exception does not apply to you.

    The difference is --- it's against the law to conceal it but no one knows you have it. It's legal to OC it, but since everyone sees it, you'll likely be asked to leave. I seriously doubt your firearm would be confiscated (illegal seizure), but LEO would very likely enforce a trespass law...even though libraries are not permitted by state law to have such unconstitutional rules ("laws?"), this I fear is something that you could only solve in court.

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    timf343 wrote:
    CowboyKen wrote:
    As to "private buildings such as casinos and resturaunts" I do not believe that there is any issue at all.

    As to "public buildings" IANAL and am not sure if they would charge you or not.

    NRS 202.3673 (3)(b): "A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building..." This is the only place in this section where the word "firearms" appears without being preceded by the word "concealed."

    I would not be surpised if they took you into custody and/or confiscated your firearm. If they took your gun away what would/could you do about it? Seems like a price I am not willing to pay to find out.

    Ken
    The code section you referenced is under the Concealed Weapons part of the law. In fact, read the very beginning sentence of that code and you'll see:

    NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.
    As no permit is needed to openly carry a firearm, you are not a permittee of anything if openly carrying. Therefore, this exception does not apply to you.

    The difference is --- it's against the law to conceal it but no one knows you have it. It's legal to OC it, but since everyone sees it, you'll likely be asked to leave. I seriously doubt your firearm would be confiscated (illegal seizure), but LEO would very likely enforce a trespass law...even though libraries are not permitted by state law to have such unconstitutional rules ("laws?"), this I fear is something that you could only solve in court.
    Timf343,

    I agree that everything you said as a statement of fact is absolutly correct. I would really appreaciate it if you would go on over to the County building (500 S. Grand Central Parkway, Las Vegas, NV 89106) wearing your firearm on your belt and let us all know what happens, I really want to know.

    Thanks.

    Ken

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    I recently got married and need to go pick up the certificate. It's a separate part from the regular courthouse building, and I don't recall a metal detector. But that'd be the best/easiest place to start, and I have a legitimate reason to go there anyway.

    I will try it this weekend and let you know.

    As for the other part, I won't be able to get thru the metal detector and would likely be asked to leave. Legal or not, I seriously doubt I'd get thru the door. Are you suggesting there are possibly worse consequences than being told to leave? Maybe, just none of them legal.

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    timf343 wrote:
    I recently got married and need to go pick up the certificate. It's a separate part from the regular courthouse building, and I don't recall a metal detector. But that'd be the best/easiest place to start, and I have a legitimate reason to go there anyway.

    I will try it this weekend and let you know.

    As for the other part, I won't be able to get thru the metal detector and would likely be asked to leave. Legal or not, I seriously doubt I'd get thru the door. Are you suggesting there are possibly worse consequences than being told to leave? Maybe, just none of them legal.

    I don't know what the consequences might be. There are no metal detectors at the County building, 500 S. Grand Central Parkway, Las Vegas, NV 89106. That is where all the County offices are. I think it is where you need to go to pick up that certificate. It is posted, there is an officer at each door. Please let us know how it goes. Thanks.

    Ken

    p.s.; Congrats on the wedding.


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    CowboyKen wrote:

    I don't know what the consequences might be. There are no metal detectors at the County building, 500 S. Grand Central Parkway, Las Vegas, NV 89106. That is where all the County offices are. I think it is where you need to go to pick up that certificate. It is posted, there is an officer at each door. Please let us know how it goes. Thanks.

    Ken

    p.s.; Congrats on the wedding.

    Minor correction. There isn't an officer ateach door. I enter the building department all the time. There is a small, extremely faded sign on the door. The sign is almost illegible.

    One funny story.... I saw a limo pull up to the county building once with3 extremely underdressed women. They were in extremely high heals, short skirts, bare bellys, etc.They looked like working girls to me. Lets just say them women were packing!!! All of these women were escorted into the building by security. I'm not saying thereare any extra perks being delivered to the county commissioners, but I have to wonder! :what:

    Congrats on the wedding Tim. If you really do open carry there please post your experience here.


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    Has anyone tested this out yet? I really would like to know if you can open carry in these buildings but I am not brave enough to find out the hard way.

    Ken

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    Got to admit so far I've chickened out. Also even if I do eventually get up the nerve, I don't want to lose one of my normal carry pistols, so I will have to make a special trip down there with a pistol I don't mind losing temporarily just in case.

    I have a specific revolver in mind, but no holster for it, so to prevent being accused of concealing it, I'll also have to go purchase a holster for the thing.

    A lot of moving parts, and I don't mind doing it eventually, but for the time being, I'm quite busy with other things. Anyone want to volunteer to meet up and record? At least inconspicuously record the audio if nothing else.

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    make sure to hit me up again when you swing through... maybe we can go harass that waitress at Outback again

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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    make sure to hit me up again when you swing through... maybe we can go harass that waitress at Outback again
    Sounds good to me:celebrate



    TJ

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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    CowboyKen wrote:
    Has anyone actually open carried in any of these places? I think you will be arrested.



    Ken
    Hiya, Ken

    Nice to see you in OC forums. As part of my instructorship, I called the state AG and asked about the airport. The letter of the law states concealed, but like you, I don't want to be the test case.

    I called the AG to ask what the legal definition was in Nevada law regarding the word "building". My scenario was concealed carry at the airport parking STRUCTURE. I wanted to know if that was considered a building. No one there could answer the question.

    I remember you PMing me on GT about the Boulder City Muni Ordinance and I give you kudos for really knowing what you're talking about when it comes to the Las Vegas area and gun laws. You should become and instructor!

    To All:
    Cowboy Ken is a very credible source of information for Nevada and especially Clark County and Las Vegas. I teach this stuff and Ken has as much understanding of the laws as do I.




    Paw





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