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Thread: Taurus P111 - Cheap Handgun or Expensive Paperweight?

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    I have a friend who is thinking about buying the Taurus P111. The handgun is an extremely good fit for her, as she has smaller hands. And she is easily able to rack the slide, which is more difficult on bigger handguns.

    My main question is: how reliable is the P111?

    I've heard very mixed review (See here, here, and here on the P145, which is a different gun but same family.) Many people complain about the reliability of the P111 and also about the trigger pull.

    I'm really only concerned with the reliability of the handgun. Is the P111 a reliable carry gun and will it hold up to semi-regular range practice?

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    Check with Gilberts Small Arms Range. I have this vague recollection that they had a number of them returned to the manufacturer for frame breakage related to the action of the slide (as opposed to being dropped.) It could have been another gun. Its been over a year since I inquired about a PT111 fromGilberts myself.
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    Tex1n, I have a PT140 and have put about 1500 rounds through it with no failures of any kind. The breakage problems with the Taurus guns were associated with the second generation Millenium pro guns. The third gen Taurus guns are a great gun and I trust mine enough to carry it everyday.

    Second gen guns are DA as opposed to the third gen gun which are SA/DA. Another way to tell the difference is in the serial # . Third gen guns have a Z as the second letter in the serial number.
    Go to http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...2117062b46;www

    and read the good and bad of the PT111

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Well honestly Tex, what gun won't you find mixed reviews on?

    I believe you either get a good one or you don't. With 'less expensive' guns the ratio is probably worse. I owned a 24/7 and didn't have any issues with it(about 600 rounds). I know someone that owns a PT145 and swears by it.

    Of course I would recommend an XDsc, but that's just me.

    Does your friend have any other options? I mean as far as liking the fit of another gun. Either way keep up the good work. New shooter's are a good thing.
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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Well honestly Tex, what gun won't you find mixed reviews on?

    I believe you either get a good one or you don't. With 'less expensive' guns the ratio is probably worse. I owned a 24/7 and didn't have any issues with it(about 600 rounds). I know someone that owns a PT145 and swears by it.

    Of course I would recommend an XDsc, but that's just me.

    Does your friend have any other options? I mean as far as liking the fit of another gun. Either way keep up the good work. New shooter's are a good thing.
    I agree with you on the mixed reviews, that's why I posted! My friend also likes a few glocks, but the P111 fits her better and she is able to handle the slide easier. She's not a new shooter, just new to CC (and possibly OC ). Which are both good things.

    I also appreciate you giving me advice on the P111 when I talked to you on Sat. As you know I'd also normally recommend the XD's, but I guess they're not for everyone.

    RickTN, thanks for the link to taurusarmed. Was the link you posted supposed to go to a specific thread? Because it just kept taking me to the main page. Although it looks like I can get a lot of good info from there.

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    Kahr K9 or P9. Reliable, super accurate for a pistol that size, easy to carry and find plenty of holsters for. Single-stack too, so it will conceal easier than the PT111. If $$$ is a concern, the Kahr CW9 is a great option, and is available new for maybe $50 more than the Taurus. I've had five different models of Kahrs, (and still have two) and have never had a failure of any kind, including the 'notoriously unreliable' PM9. I have nothing but good things to say about Kahr.

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    Funny, I don't see where he asked anything about a Kahr, or any other handgun besides the Taurus P111 for that matter.

    I mentioned in another thread that I recently saw a Millennium Pro have a huge failure. I don't know what caliber it was, but I'm assuming it was a .45. The gun had fired 300 rounds flawlessly with no issues of any sort, so the owner (range employee) decided to use it for a shooting match to see how it did before he started carrying it.

    The first 15 rounds fired with no issues. The 16th round fired, and the slide stopped half-way back, just short of ejecting the casing. The slide completely froze, with absolutely no play or wiggle to it what-so-ever. The casing wasn't to blame, as it was free to rattle around behind the chamber, and the barrel was free to wiggle as well. Last I heard, after multiple armorers and tools, the slide is still stuck.

    This could be just a single bad apple, and it wasn't the same caliber as the P111. However, seeing that happen first-hand just really makes me think twice about any gun that says Millennium Pro on the side.

    If that is the gun that is the most comfortable for her, just make sure she puts at least 317 rounds through it before she trusts it for carry .

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    DreQo wrote:
    Funny, I don't see where he asked anything about a Kahr, or any other handgun besides the Taurus P111 for that matter.
    And you notice that I didn't "ANSWER" anything about a Kahr, either. I suggested it as a quality alternative to someone interested in a PT111, because of my specific experience with both makes and models. Females tend to have smaller hands with shorter fingers, which makes double-stack handguns difficult to properly grip. For this reason I suggest trying to rent a Kahr, or a Sig P239, which tend to be a better fit, which in turn provides more comfortable shooting, which in turn provides greater accuracy and proficiency. I don't recommend a brand and model to anyone that I wouldn't feel comfortable arming my wife with, and this is no different.

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    Tex1n,

    I went thru the same soul-search about 18 months ago. I read a lot of posts on lots of forums. I noticed the vast majority of complaints were about the PT145. The PT140 and 111 had far fewer complaints. I noted also that a lot of the older posts are discussing the "Millenium" vs the newer "Millenium Pro." So I took the plunge and bought one.

    I bought mine (instead of an XD9) as my first gun because it had good ergonomics, a manual safety, and DA capability. The internal lock and the lower price didn't hurt, either.

    When I got the gun home, I disassembled it to check for burrs or other problems. I found and filed off one. Since then I've put close to 1000 rounds of various ammo (WWB, Independence, Blazer, Hydrashok, Speer Gold Dot) with zero malfunctions. My wife (an inexperienced shooter with small hands) kinda enjoys shooting it, too, even though she's a lefty. To ensure continued flawless performance, I keep the feed ramp clean and keep a light coat of oil on the rails.

    The trigger is good, but not great; very similar to the Walther P99. Normal (SA) pull is light, with a lot of take-up and a rubbery break. Reset is short. The DA pull is no worse than a Beretta 92. (The only way you'll ever experience the DA pull is if you have a bad primer or load in a snap cap during target practice to keep yourself sharp.) If you find yourself in the Norfolk area, you can test drive Tauri at Bob's Gun Shop and experience the trigger pull yourself.

    Based on my experience, I would recommend the PT111 for her (but definitely not the PT145). Can I promise you that she won't have any problems? No, but neither could the owner of a $900 H&K. FWIW, I considered a few Kahrs while shopping: great reputation, but harder trigger pull (DAO), harder to rack the slide, lower capacity, and higher price. Harder to find but worth considering is the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness polymer Carry (http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witn...scription.html), and it's in the same price range as the Taurus. PT111's prettier though.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    DreQo wrote:
    Funny, I don't see where he asked anything about a Kahr, or any other handgun besides the Taurus P111 for that matter.

    I mentioned in another thread that I recently saw a Millennium Pro have a huge failure. I don't know what caliber it was, but I'm assuming it was a .45. The gun had fired 300 rounds flawlessly with no issues of any sort, so the owner (range employee) decided to use it for a shooting match to see how it did before he started carrying it.

    The first 15 rounds fired with no issues. The 16th round fired, and the slide stopped half-way back, just short of ejecting the casing. The slide completely froze, with absolutely no play or wiggle to it what-so-ever. The casing wasn't to blame, as it was free to rattle around behind the chamber, and the barrel was free to wiggle as well. Last I heard, after multiple armorers and tools, the slide is still stuck.

    This could be just a single bad apple, and it wasn't the same caliber as the P111. However, seeing that happen first-hand just really makes me think twice about any gun that says Millennium Pro on the side.

    If that is the gun that is the most comfortable for her, just make sure she puts at least 317 rounds through it before she trusts it for carry .
    FUNNY I don't see where he asked anything about a Millennium Pro or any handgun besides the Taurus P111 for that matter.
    interesting

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    I've owned the 24/7 for almost a year now, fired 350+ rounds through it yesterday with no problems whatso ever. Great gun I like it. I bought the P111/9mm for my wife yesterday, Nice gun for her, small & compact, along with the pink synthetic stock. She likes it & we''l check it out @ the farm to see how well it handles. I'll keep you posted.

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    well i have the PT745C , single 6 stack .45 millennium pro. stainless slide.
    PT145 with a 10rnd mag. .45
    and pt111 9mm.

    i have tested these weapons out the bung.

    here are the isusses.


    Safety switch is bunk. If you pull the trigger maybe 1/8 of an inch while engaging the safety it WILL NOT WORK.......it will still fire the chamber round, think not? stick a pen in the barrel, pull the trigger a lil *WHILE UN-LOADED* apply safety and squeeze trigger, watch the pen go flying!.

    Alot of ppl have complaints about the slide release. its VERY stiff when the weapon is unloaded with a empty mag.......well duh lol the mag spring on these are pretty strong, it adds extra friction on the slide release and takes about 20lbs of pressure to press it down. However. add a full mag at the range and try it agian. takes about 5lbs of pressure to use it. so it does work.

    most of the slide cracking and firing pin shaving was in the 1st gen model millenniums. since then any 2nd gen or 3rd gen PRO models have been upgraded and do not face this issue.

    FTF issues. Alot of people have an issue with Fail to feeds. this is a lube issue and nothing more. taurus reccomends a "Light film" of lube on the interior to function. however if you just use a light film, it will have feed issues, i recomend using more than a light film, use a q-tip and soak it in hopps. coat every part liberlay, wipe excess. shouldnt have problems.

    I carry my 745C daily as my new SD piece. have put about 2,500 rounds down it . no real problems. other than the safety.

    If you test this safety issue *some 3rd gen models that are very new dont have it* and it is present, send it to taurus , they know about it, and will fix it for free.

    overall good gun, just like any other pistol it has its quirks, but you can easily get around them :-)

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    I own two PT145's and both work fine.

    I use the analogy of Hyundai. You get a decent gun with a great (lifetime) warranty, but you still get what you pay for. If you spend a few hundred more you get more choices (XD, Glock, Sig250) but for the money it is a great gun.

    I have heard people that have gotten lemons and sworn off Taurus. I personally know several people that have them (differing models) and no complaints. I like the light triggerpull but it is a little long/loose.

    I sent my first one to the factory to get fixed because the slide stop kept slipping (especially when I was breaking down the gun) which was annoying. I could have lived with it but decided to use their lifetime warranty and got it fixed.

    The PT1xx series is a great size and has great capacity. I usually CC it in my front pocket (jeans and khakis) but occasionally OC it. FWIW they fit into my SIG leather holsters (the gun is a little short) but it saved me from buying another set of hoslters. The thumb safety was also a plus in my decision making process.
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    jay75009 wrote:
    Safety switch is bunk. If you pull the trigger maybe 1/8 of an inch while engaging the safety it WILL NOT WORK.......it will still fire the chamber round, think not? stick a pen in the barrel, pull the trigger a lil *WHILE UN-LOADED* apply safety and squeeze trigger, watch the pen go flying!.
    Why in the name of gawd would anybody of reasonable intellect be squeezing the trigger while engaging the safety? Take your finger off of the trigger first!

    Switch safeties are generally not designed to stop an active trigger squeeze to fire sequence. They are designed to prevent such when engaged first. If they do this, they work.

    Send your problem to Taurus as a question regarding function. We'd all be interested in their reply.

    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    Safety switch is bunk. If you pull the trigger maybe 1/8 of an inch while engaging the safety it WILL NOT WORK.......it will still fire the chamber round, think not? stick a pen in the barrel, pull the trigger a lil *WHILE UN-LOADED* apply safety and squeeze trigger, watch the pen go flying!.
    Why in the name of gawd would anybody of reasonable intellect be squeezing the trigger while engaging the safety? Take your finger off of the trigger first!

    Switch safeties are generally not designed to stop an active trigger squeeze to fire sequence. They are designed to prevent such when engaged first. If they do this, they work.

    Send your problem to Taurus as a question regarding function. We'd all be interested in their reply.

    Yata hey
    well its an issue thats all over the web. and its not just a finger on the trigger issue grape. if your shirt presses the trigger, if it gets stuck, if ANYTHING touches that trigger at all while engaging the safety it puts the lock infront of the trigger, instead of behind it, and it will fail 100%.

    Taurus already knows of the problem although they have not gone public or re-called any weapons. any Millennium made after 2008 does not have this problem. mine was manufactured 2005 , and every one before 2008 DOES have this problem.

    i figured i would mention it here to get the word out. i believe if you have safety information you should share it. would feel like crap if one of the members here blew his kids head off or put a bullet through the elderly woman below his appartment because he was holstering his pistol and it went bang because of a faulty safety.

    bottom line, if you have a Millennium...............unload it fully, check and re check and recheck the chamber...........than test it yourself. Please. pull the slack on the trigger then engage the safety, then squeeze...........if it clicks........return it and get it fixed. noone has died from this yet but its only a matter of time.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    jay75009 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    Safety switch is bunk. If you pull the trigger maybe 1/8 of an inch while engaging the safety it WILL NOT WORK.......it will still fire the chamber round, think not? stick a pen in the barrel, pull the trigger a lil *WHILE UN-LOADED* apply safety and squeeze trigger, watch the pen go flying!.
    Why in the name of gawd would anybody of reasonable intellect be squeezing the trigger while engaging the safety? Take your finger off of the trigger first!

    Switch safeties are generally not designed to stop an active trigger squeeze to fire sequence. They are designed to prevent such when engaged first. If they do this, they work.

    Send your problem to Taurus as a question regarding function. We'd all be interested in their reply.

    Yata hey
    well its an issue thats all over the web. and its not just a finger on the trigger issue grape. if your shirt presses the trigger, if it gets stuck, if ANYTHING touches that trigger at all while engaging the safety it puts the lock infront of the trigger, instead of behind it, and it will fail 100%.

    Taurus already knows of the problem although they have not gone public or re-called any weapons. any Millennium made after 2008 does not have this problem. mine was manufactured 2005 , and every one before 2008 DOES have this problem.

    i figured i would mention it here to get the word out. i believe if you have safety information you should share it. would feel like crap if one of the members here blew his kids head off or put a bullet through the elderly woman below his appartment because he was holstering his pistol and it went bang because of a faulty safety.

    bottom line, if you have a Millennium...............unload it fully, check and re check and recheck the chamber...........than test it yourself. Please. pull the slack on the trigger then engage the safety, then squeeze...........if it clicks........return it and get it fixed. noone has died from this yet but its only a matter of time.
    Well it may be all over the web, but two large FFLs I spoke to said they have never seen one that would do that; nevertheless, what shocks me is that anyone with knowledge that their gun was malfunctioning would state "I carry my 745C daily ............ no real problems other than the safety."

    You admit to carrying a gun with a malfunctioning safety on a public forum. Wow - evidence of negligence doesn't get much better than that! Should you have a SHTF moment, a good prosecutor would have you for dinner.

    Agree that anyone, yourself included, that has a malfunctioning gun should have it fixed. Taurus has a superb life of the gun warranty - get it fixed yesterday.

    http://www.taurususa.com/repair-policy.cfm

    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    Safety switch is bunk. If you pull the trigger maybe 1/8 of an inch while engaging the safety it WILL NOT WORK.......it will still fire the chamber round, think not? stick a pen in the barrel, pull the trigger a lil *WHILE UN-LOADED* apply safety and squeeze trigger, watch the pen go flying!.
    Why in the name of gawd would anybody of reasonable intellect be squeezing the trigger while engaging the safety? Take your finger off of the trigger first!

    Switch safeties are generally not designed to stop an active trigger squeeze to fire sequence. They are designed to prevent such when engaged first. If they do this, they work.

    Send your problem to Taurus as a question regarding function. We'd all be interested in their reply.

    Yata hey
    well its an issue thats all over the web. and its not just a finger on the trigger issue grape. if your shirt presses the trigger, if it gets stuck, if ANYTHING touches that trigger at all while engaging the safety it puts the lock infront of the trigger, instead of behind it, and it will fail 100%.

    Taurus already knows of the problem although they have not gone public or re-called any weapons. any Millennium made after 2008 does not have this problem. mine was manufactured 2005 , and every one before 2008 DOES have this problem.

    i figured i would mention it here to get the word out. i believe if you have safety information you should share it. would feel like crap if one of the members here blew his kids head off or put a bullet through the elderly woman below his appartment because he was holstering his pistol and it went bang because of a faulty safety.

    bottom line, if you have a Millennium...............unload it fully, check and re check and recheck the chamber...........than test it yourself. Please. pull the slack on the trigger then engage the safety, then squeeze...........if it clicks........return it and get it fixed. noone has died from this yet but its only a matter of time.
    Well it may be all over the web, but two large FFLs I spoke to said they have never seen one that would do that; nevertheless, what shocks me is that anyone with knowledge that their gun was malfunctioning would state "I carry my 745C daily ............ no real problems other than the safety."

    You admit to carrying a gun with a malfunctioning safety on a public forum. Wow - evidence of negligence doesn't get much better than that! Should you have a SHTF moment, a good prosecutor would have you for dinner.

    Agree that anyone, yourself included, that has a malfunctioning gun should have it fixed. Taurus has a superb life of the gun warranty - get it fixed yesterday.

    http://www.taurususa.com/repair-policy.cfm

    Yata hey
    lol theres no negligence...........i don't use a safety on any of my carry guns, they all have them. but i personally dont use them, just another button to slow me down in a SHTF situation.

    #2 taurus is sending me a new safety latch to install myself.

    #3 i dont keep a round in the chamber anymore. because of this so there is no issue.
    .

    i posted to let others know about this very dangerous issue, if your aware of it, you can avoid it, dont harass me because i attempted to help people grape. careful.........your charachter is showing.

  18. #18
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    I have a PT140 also and I swear by it. Nice lil CC weapon and it's never failed!
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    I have a PT140 also and I swear by it. Nice lil CC weapon and it's never failed!
    they are great guns, have the feel of a glock 30 but $300 less in price, accurate , i love them

  20. #20
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    jay75009 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Well it may be all over the web, but two large FFLs I spoke to said they have never seen one that would do that; nevertheless, what shocks me is that anyone with knowledge that their gun was malfunctioning would state "I carry my 745C daily ............ no real problems other than the safety."

    You admit to carrying a gun with a malfunctioning safety on a public forum. Wow - evidence of negligence doesn't get much better than that! Should you have a SHTF moment, a good prosecutor would have you for dinner.

    Agree that anyone, yourself included, that has a malfunctioning gun should have it fixed. Taurus has a superb life of the gun warranty - get it fixed yesterday.

    http://www.taurususa.com/repair-policy.cfm

    Yata hey
    lol theres no negligence...........i don't use a safety on any of my carry guns, they all have them. but i personally dont use them, just another button to slow me down in a SHTF situation.

    #2 taurus is sending me a new safety latch to install myself.

    #3 i dont keep a round in the chamber anymore. because of this so there is no issue.
    .
    i posted to let others know about this very dangerous issue, if your aware of it, you can avoid it, dont harass me because i attempted to help people grape. careful.........your charachter is showing.
    That's right, you don't like to be asked to clarify things or cite - you call that harassment and then attempt to insult.

    The 745C is the little brother to the PT 24/7 - the safety on both models block the striker as well as the trigger, so there may be other issues with one that responds as you describe. Quite surprised that Tauras didn't want you to send it back for a full check up and repair.

    You may chose to carry sans the safety engaged for the sake of speed - that's your choice, not one that many would recommend though. Then you don't keep one in the pipe for safety's sake - all on your daily carry. One choice for speed and one choice for safety, but inversely applied reasoning IMO.

    I would temporarily retire the broken gun until fixed and carry one that works properly with a full, ready load as it was designed to do, but that is just me.

    To all other posters/readers: It is highly recommended that any malfunction, damage, breakage and/or safety issue with your gun be corrected before you trust your life and the life of others to that particular personal protection tool.

    Yata hey


    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Well it may be all over the web, but two large FFLs I spoke to said they have never seen one that would do that; nevertheless, what shocks me is that anyone with knowledge that their gun was malfunctioning would state "I carry my 745C daily ............ no real problems other than the safety."

    You admit to carrying a gun with a malfunctioning safety on a public forum. Wow - evidence of negligence doesn't get much better than that! Should you have a SHTF moment, a good prosecutor would have you for dinner.

    Agree that anyone, yourself included, that has a malfunctioning gun should have it fixed. Taurus has a superb life of the gun warranty - get it fixed yesterday.

    http://www.taurususa.com/repair-policy.cfm

    Yata hey
    lol theres no negligence...........i don't use a safety on any of my carry guns, they all have them. but i personally dont use them, just another button to slow me down in a SHTF situation.

    #2 taurus is sending me a new safety latch to install myself.

    #3 i dont keep a round in the chamber anymore. because of this so there is no issue.
    .
    i posted to let others know about this very dangerous issue, if your aware of it, you can avoid it, dont harass me because i attempted to help people grape. careful.........your charachter is showing.
    That's right, you don't like to be asked to clarify things or cite - you call that harassment and then attempt to insult.

    The 745C is the little brother to the PT 24/7 - the safety on both models block the striker as well as the trigger, so there may be other issues with one that responds as you describe. Quite surprised that Tauras didn't want you to send it back for a full check up and repair.

    You may chose to carry sans the safety engaged for the sake of speed - that's your choice, not one that many would recommend though. Then you don't keep one in the pipe for safety's sake - all on your daily carry. One choice for speed and one choice for safety, but inversely applied reasoning IMO.

    I would temporarily retire the broken gun until fixed and carry one that works properly with a full, ready load as it was designed to do, but that is just me.

    To all other posters/readers: It is highly recommended that any malfunction, damage, breakage and/or safety issue with your gun be corrected before you trust your life and the life of others to that particular personal protection tool.

    Yata hey

    there was nothing to clerify or cite grape. i said it flat you. the safety malfunctions. it does not work, it is dangerous if you do not know of it. i also cited how to have it repaired.

    and yes i dont use the safety in this weapon, and no i dont keep a round chambered, but im right handed and i use a crossdraw, wich infact i can draw and rack the slide in the same exact motion, with does not hamper my draw speed at all, actually i draw, rack the side and unload 2 rounds in under2.8 seconds. so for me........is not inversely applied reasoning.

    I appologise to whoevers thread this is for this.........crap. my intent was to comment and inform on this weapon. but once again someone has hijacked it for their own personal agenda. again i am sorry for this.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    To all other posters/readers: It is highly recommended that any malfunction, damage, breakage and/or safety issue with your gun be corrected before you trust your life and the life of others to that particular personal protection tool.

    Taurus has a superb life of the gun warranty.

    http://www.taurususa.com/repair-policy.cfm


    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #23
    Regular Member
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    :quirkyGetting back on topic, I bought a used Taurus P111 Millennium 9mm at Gander Mountain a few years ago and have never had any malfunctions. I enjoyed plinking with it and sold it to my mother after I had a few hundred rounds through it. I would definitely recommend it. Nice little gun.
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

  24. #24
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    My daily carry is a 3rd Gen PT111 Millennium Pro SS I have about 3000 rounds through it now and she is a sweet shooter... I have short fingers... so the slender grip is perfect...

    I carry in the following two holsters

    Kholster for CC


    And Bianche Carrylockt for OC

    NOTE this is the model 82 for the Glock 26... most glock 26 holsters fit the 3rd gen mil pro's.

    Oh and the safety issue brought up here is much ado about nothing or an perceived problem in search of a fix... If you are following the rules of safe gun handling your trigger will not be near anything that could depress it while the safety is being engaged.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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