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Thread: VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!! ETA HAS PASSED THE HOUSE ONTO THE GOVERNORS DESK!!

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    VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!!



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Philip Van Cleave
    Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:04 PM

    Subject: VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!!


    Big win for gun owners!

    The Senate voted today, 24 to 15, to pass SB 476, Senator Hanger's
    restaurant ban repeal!

    Special thanks to Senator Hanger and Cuccinelli!

    (In the next alert I will indicate which Senators voted pro-gun and
    which didn't.)

    Anti-gun Senator McEachin had an amendment that would have required
    that you identify yourself to the restaurant as a CHP holder and then
    wear some kind of insignia so that the staff wouldn't serve you
    alcohol!!! So Senator McEachin thinks permit holders should wear a
    "scarlet letter," as if we are criminals or should be ashamed of
    ourselves.

    The only person I am ashamed of is Senator McEachin.

    Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
    permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
    carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
    had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
    amendment.

    VCDL is not thrilled with that amendment, obviously. Imagine telling
    an 18 year old waitress, "Hi! I have a gun!" We will be looking at
    options to improve the bill in the House and have some new wording
    already.

    Saslaw lied by saying that anyone who dared to carry openly in a NoVA
    restaurant would be kicked out. His implication was that no one was
    open carrying in restaurants now and that no one could say that gun
    owners were carrying around alcohol currently.

    Ha! - Senator Saslaw has no idea just how clueless he actually is.
    Fifty or more VCDL members meet once a month at a NoVA restaurant, all
    carrying openly and without being kicked out, ever. Open carry in
    NoVA restaurants happens day in and day out, as it does across the
    state.

    Saslaw then tried to kill the bill by sending it to a committee at the
    last minute.

    Cuccinelli spoke against Saslaw's attempt to kill the bill.

    The attempt to refer the bill was defeated by 23 to 16.

    Senator McEachin then pleaded to have the bill voted down, indicating
    his contempt and distrust of permit holders.

    He failed. We didn't.

    --

    HB 436, Delegate Jackson Miller, allows police officers to arrest on a
    class 1 or class 2 misdemeanor AT WILL has passed the House and is on
    its way to the Senate. Not an anti-gun bill, but one that can have
    negative effects for gun owners, and opposed by VCDL accordingly.

    --

    The following bills are DEAD due to not being heard by a committee or
    by being deferred:

    PRO-GUN bills: :-(

    HB 109, Delegate Cole, state agency preemption

    HB 210, Delegate Cole, allows private K-12 schools and child day
    centers to hire armed security officers

    HB 212, Delegate Cole, repeals a law that allows localities to keep a
    record of handguns

    HB 424, Delegate Marshall, allows full time faculty at universities
    and colleges with a CHP to carry

    HB 1088, Delegate Sickles, protects social security numbers in hunting
    and fishing licenses

    HB 1292, Delegate Athey, allows loaded firearms in locked containers
    in vehicles and boats (Senate version is still alive)

    HB 1371, Delegate Gilbert, college carry

    HB 1544, Delegate Gilbert, restaurant ban repeal (Senate equivalent is
    still alive)

    SB 332, Senator Cuccinelli, protects CHP list (still alive in a House
    bill)

    --

    ANTI-GUN bills: ;-)

    HB 281, Delegate Toscano, would have prevented someone with a
    protective order from having a gun in their own home

    HB 435, Delegate Jackson Miller, would have required a person to ID to
    a police officer (not really anti-gun, but opposed because of likely
    negative effect on gun owners)

    HB 588, Delegate Marsden, puts air guns under concealed weapons law

    HB 608, Delgate Eisenberg, would have prevented someone with a
    protective order from having a gun in their own home

    HB 1055, Delegate Jim Scott, would prohibit firearms possession,
    purchase or transport for someone who has had their parental rights
    terminated

    HB 814, Delegate Ward, requires questions to be asked about gun
    ownership for protective orders

    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
    ************************************************** *************************

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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
    permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
    carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
    had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
    amendment.
    Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

    On the upside though, at least you could say you told them and they never heard you.

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    psmartin wrote:
    W.E.G. wrote:
    Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
    permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
    carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
    had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
    amendment.
    Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

    I agree -- If I am CC'ing. Why would I tell.

    Give VCDL a chance to work on it. Worst case you OC.



    DC

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    psmartin wrote:
    W.E.G. wrote:
    Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
    permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
    carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
    had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
    amendment.
    Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

    On the upside though, at least you could say you told them and they never heard you.
    If the bill is signed into law with this amendment, I will simply continue to OC.

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    If the bill is signed into law with this amendment, I will simply continue to OC.
    Same here. I have no problem OC...

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    What a waste.

    I would assume "I have a CHP" would suffice, but once again we get vague gun laws.
    What if you are getting carry out, who do you tell then? Leave it up to brain dead elected officials to not get something right.

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    Is there any insight into how likely this is to pass in the House, and by how much? It seems a near-certainty that Timmy Kaine will veto this, so will there be a veto-proof majority?


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    This bill is absolutely worthless. One of the main reasons to CC is if you are with a group of people and don't want to deal with explaining to them why you choose to carry a gun. Imagine going out to dinner with people who aren't comfortable and having to tell a staff member in front of them that you are carrying. Absolutely worthless, I wish they would have waited and gotten it right next year.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.
    Perhaps it is progress, but one thing I liked about the old law is that it wasn't clear what someone caught CC-ing in a restraurant would get charged with.

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    Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.

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    VCDL President wrote:
    Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.
    Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    hsmith wrote:
    What a waste.

    I would assume "I have a CHP" would suffice, but once again we get vague gun laws.
    What if you are getting carry out, who do you tell then? Leave it up to brain dead elected officials to not get something right.
    nah, all you have to do is say "Per 18.2 308 I'm notifying you" and leave it at that. You've meet the requirement to "notify." I doubt the law would say HOW to notify or what specificly to say. If the little 18 year old waitress isn't up to snuff on her VA codes. . .not my issue.

    Not as good as no notifacation requirement I'll grant you, but best to make lemonaid out of lemons.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    dixiehacker wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.
    Perhaps it is progress, but one thing I liked about the old law is that it wasn't clear what someone caught CC-ing in a restraurant would get charged with.
    According to AG opinion of 1995, basically your permit doesn't exist in an ABC restaurant, so its a class 1 misdemeanor if you violate the rule.
    http://www.virginia1774.org/AGOpinion1995.html

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    ChinChin wrote
    nah, all you have to do is say "Per 18.2 308 I'm notifying you" and leave it at that. You've meet the requirement to "notify." I doubt the law would say HOW to notify or what specificly to say. If the little 18 year old waitress isn't up to snuff on her VA codes. . .not my issue.

    Not as good as no notifacation requirement I'll grant you, but best to make lemonaid out of lemons.
    i like the cut of your jib

    it will be easy, call make reservations spurt out "18.2 308" and done!

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    It will be interesting to see if the final version specifies when/how you are required to notify the establishment. "I notified them the last time I was here officer. That is all the law requires me to do."

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    dixiehacker wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.
    Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.
    +1

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    sccrref wrote:
    dixiehacker wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.
    Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.
    +1
    Ok. . .I've been critical of VCDL in the past, but this year they've gone above and beyond the call.

    I don't say this often, but here goes. . .

    Ahem. . .I was wrong.

    It wouldn't be gentlemanly of me to not say so.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Here's the language as it stands now from the following URL red is what was removed, green is the new stuff:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...081+ful+SB476E

    No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises [ ; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol . A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform a designated employee of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection ] shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit while actually engaged in the performance of his official duties.


    I'm kinda upset that there's the must notify clause. I'm curious what the must notify clausepunishment is, and how you could go about proving that you in fact DID notify them without another witness to coroborrate your story. I also will be saying, "By the way, 18.2 308J3"... but that makes me feel guilty like I'm doing something [i]wrong[i]. Also, the zero tolerance clause gives me some pause. I've only drank while carrying twice that I can remember, both times with my girlfriend, and both times to cheer a celebration or event. Both times I had one sip of wine. Telling me I'm going to be charged with a misdemeanor if I'm seen doing that again doesn't mean much to me but I still have a problem with it.

    But... it's on the books now, and it'll be that much harder to strike and remove it COMPLETELY from now on. So we can work at getting it tweaked in the coming sessions and years to come.

    Full History here:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB476

    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    But... it's on the books now, and it'll be that much harder to strike and remove it COMPLETELY from now on. So we can work at getting it tweaked in the coming sessions and years to come.

    Full History here:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB476

    It is ***NOT*** on the books now! It has only cleared the Senate. It has to go through the House and be signed by the Governor. We have time to fix/change the bill yet. It is only 1/3 of the way to law - but it is alive. Had it been killed, we wouldn't be in a position to fix anything and concealed carry in restaurants would be back to square one.

    If the bill becomes untenable, then we will recommend it be killed. For now, it isn't great, but it is still viable.


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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think we can still fix this bill. However, I'm wondering how it will work if it does become law.

    As to the this informing process, I think I might print up some cards to use as my informing device. A card in someones hand is a good protection should someone claim they weren't informed. I know if its concealed how could they claim they weren't informed , but you never know. Might be a good opportunity for our side as this forced interaction puts our message out and if they refuse we can always hand them no guns no money cards.

    As for the imbibing penalty well you can just switch to OC to avoid it and being intoxicated while concealing is already illegal as others have said.

    I can see some pain for OCers as restaurant staff will be confused as to do. As well as this galvanizing the CHP holders who will naturally dislike informing, which could also be a good thing in the long run. We will see.

    Anyone just going to continue to OC because of this? I think I probably will.


    How's this for a card?

    This is to inform you as
    required by Virginia Code
    18.2-308 J3, that I have a
    concealed handgun permit
    and I am presently carrying
    a firearm.

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    I have no reason not to continue to OC. I actually kinda like it.

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    The bill is not perfect, but it is a good start.

    I want to know how we recognize the "designated employee" we are to notify. Will he/she be wearing a VCDL or OCDO cap? Maybe a big "Guns Saves Lives" button? I would not want to notify the wrong person and be in violation of the law.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I think we can still fix this bill. However, I'm wondering how it will work if it does become law.

    As to the this informing process, I think I might print up some cards to use as my informing device. A card in someones hand is a good protection should someone claim they weren't informed. I know if its concealed how could they claim they weren't informed , but you never know. Might be a good opportunity for our side as this forced interaction puts our message out and if they refuse we can always hand them no guns no money cards.

    As for the imbibing penalty well you can just switch to OC to avoid it and being intoxicated while concealing is already illegal as others have said.

    I can see some pain for OCers as restaurant staff will be confused as to do. As well as this galvanizing the CHP holders who will naturally dislike informing, which could also be a good thing in the long run. We will see.

    Anyone just going to continue to OC because of this? I think I probably will.


    How's this for a card?

    This is to inform you as
    required by Virginia Code
    18.2-308 J3, that I have a
    concealed handgun permit
    and I am presently carrying
    a firearm.
    You might say "legally carrying a firearm."


  25. #25
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    I'll continue to OC, regardless of the outcome.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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