VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!! ETA HAS PASSED THE HOUSE ONTO THE GOVERNORS DESK!!

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VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!!



-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Van Cleave
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:04 PM

Subject: VA-ALERT: RESTAURANT BAN REPEAL PASSES SENATE!!!


Big win for gun owners!

The Senate voted today, 24 to 15, to pass SB 476, Senator Hanger's
restaurant ban repeal!

Special thanks to Senator Hanger and Cuccinelli!

(In the next alert I will indicate which Senators voted pro-gun and
which didn't.)

Anti-gun Senator McEachin had an amendment that would have required
that you identify yourself to the restaurant as a CHP holder and then
wear some kind of insignia so that the staff wouldn't serve you
alcohol!!! So Senator McEachin thinks permit holders should wear a
"scarlet letter," as if we are criminals or should be ashamed of
ourselves.

The only person I am ashamed of is Senator McEachin.

Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
amendment.

VCDL is not thrilled with that amendment, obviously. Imagine telling
an 18 year old waitress, "Hi! I have a gun!" We will be looking at
options to improve the bill in the House and have some new wording
already.

Saslaw lied by saying that anyone who dared to carry openly in a NoVA
restaurant would be kicked out. His implication was that no one was
open carrying in restaurants now and that no one could say that gun
owners were carrying around alcohol currently.

Ha! - Senator Saslaw has no idea just how clueless he actually is.
Fifty or more VCDL members meet once a month at a NoVA restaurant, all
carrying openly and without being kicked out, ever. Open carry in
NoVA restaurants happens day in and day out, as it does across the
state.

Saslaw then tried to kill the bill by sending it to a committee at the
last minute.

Cuccinelli spoke against Saslaw's attempt to kill the bill.

The attempt to refer the bill was defeated by 23 to 16.

Senator McEachin then pleaded to have the bill voted down, indicating
his contempt and distrust of permit holders.

He failed. We didn't.

--

HB 436, Delegate Jackson Miller, allows police officers to arrest on a
class 1 or class 2 misdemeanor AT WILL has passed the House and is on
its way to the Senate. Not an anti-gun bill, but one that can have
negative effects for gun owners, and opposed by VCDL accordingly.

--

The following bills are DEAD due to not being heard by a committee or
by being deferred:

PRO-GUN bills: :-(

HB 109, Delegate Cole, state agency preemption

HB 210, Delegate Cole, allows private K-12 schools and child day
centers to hire armed security officers

HB 212, Delegate Cole, repeals a law that allows localities to keep a
record of handguns

HB 424, Delegate Marshall, allows full time faculty at universities
and colleges with a CHP to carry

HB 1088, Delegate Sickles, protects social security numbers in hunting
and fishing licenses

HB 1292, Delegate Athey, allows loaded firearms in locked containers
in vehicles and boats (Senate version is still alive)

HB 1371, Delegate Gilbert, college carry

HB 1544, Delegate Gilbert, restaurant ban repeal (Senate equivalent is
still alive)

SB 332, Senator Cuccinelli, protects CHP list (still alive in a House
bill)

--

ANTI-GUN bills: ;-)

HB 281, Delegate Toscano, would have prevented someone with a
protective order from having a gun in their own home

HB 435, Delegate Jackson Miller, would have required a person to ID to
a police officer (not really anti-gun, but opposed because of likely
negative effect on gun owners)

HB 588, Delegate Marsden, puts air guns under concealed weapons law

HB 608, Delgate Eisenberg, would have prevented someone with a
protective order from having a gun in their own home

HB 1055, Delegate Jim Scott, would prohibit firearms possession,
purchase or transport for someone who has had their parental rights
terminated

HB 814, Delegate Ward, requires questions to be asked about gun
ownership for protective orders

-------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
***************************************************************************

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W.E.G. wrote:

Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
amendment.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

On the upside though, at least you could say you told them and they never heard you.

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psmartin wrote:

W.E.G. wrote:

Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
amendment.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

Click to expand...

I agree -- If I am CC'ing. Why would I tell.

Give VCDL a chance to work on it. Worst case you OC.



DC

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psmartin wrote:

W.E.G. wrote:

Senator Hanger offered a substitute amendment that would require the
permit holder to let a restaurant staff member know that you are
carrying, but that is all. He offered that amendment to make sure he
had enough votes to get the bill passed. And the bill did, with that
amendment.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately this amendment makes the bill "near worthless"

On the upside though, at least you could say you told them and they never heard you.

Click to expand...

If the bill is signed into law with this amendment, I will simply continue to OC.

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vrwmiller wrote:

If the bill is signed into law with this amendment, I will simply continue to OC.

Click to expand...

Same here. I have no problem OC...

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What a waste.

I would assume "I have a CHP" would suffice, but once again we get vague gun laws.
What if you are getting carry out, who do you tell then? Leave it up to brain dead elected officials to not get something right.

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Is there any insight into how likely this is to pass in the House, and by how much? It seems a near-certainty that Timmy Kaine will veto this, so will there be a veto-proof majority?

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This bill is absolutely worthless. One of the main reasons to CC is if you are with a group of people and don't want to deal with explaining to them why you choose to carry a gun. Imagine going out to dinner with people who aren't comfortable and having to tell a staff member in front of them that you are carrying. Absolutely worthless, I wish they would have waited and gotten it right next year.

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Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.

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longwatch wrote:

Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it is progress, but one thing I liked about the old law is that it wasn't clear what someone caught CC-ing in a restraurant would get charged with.

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Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.

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VCDL President wrote:

Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.

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hsmith wrote:

What a waste.

I would assume "I have a CHP" would suffice, but once again we get vague gun laws.
What if you are getting carry out, who do you tell then? Leave it up to brain dead elected officials to not get something right.

Click to expand...

nah, all you have to do is say "Per 18.2 308 I'm notifying you" and leave it at that. You've meet the requirement to "notify." I doubt the law would say HOW to notify or what specificly to say. If the little 18 year old waitress isn't up to snuff on her VA codes. . .not my issue.

Not as good as no notifacation requirement I'll grant you, but best to make lemonaid out of lemons.

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dixiehacker wrote:

longwatch wrote:

Sometimes you take half a loaf, it aint perfect but its progress and we can still fix it. If not this year next.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it is progress, but one thing I liked about the old law is that it wasn't clear what someone caught CC-ing in a restraurant would get charged with.

Click to expand...

According to AG opinion of 1995, basically your permit doesn't exist in an ABC restaurant, so its a class 1 misdemeanor if you violate the rule.
http://www.virginia1774.org/AGOpinion1995.html

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ChinChin wrote

nah, all you have to do is say "Per 18.2 308 I'm notifying you" and leave it at that. You've meet the requirement to "notify." I doubt the law would say HOW to notify or what specificly to say. If the little 18 year old waitress isn't up to snuff on her VA codes. . .not my issue.

Not as good as no notifacation requirement I'll grant you, but best to make lemonaid out of lemons.

Click to expand...

i like the cut of your jib :lol:

it will be easy, call make reservations spurt out "18.2 308" and done!

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It will be interesting to see if the final version specifies when/how you are required to notify the establishment. "I notified them the last time I was here officer. That is all the law requires me to do."

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dixiehacker wrote:

VCDL President wrote:

Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.

Click to expand...

+1

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sccrref wrote:

dixiehacker wrote:

VCDL President wrote:

Everybody be patient, the fat lady hasn't sang yet. The bill is alive and that gives us a chance to fix it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for working your posterior off on this one. All of us gun owners in Virginia owe you a great deal.

Click to expand...

+1

Click to expand...

Ok. . .I've been critical of VCDL in the past, but this year they've gone above and beyond the call.

I don't say this often, but here goes. . .

Ahem. . .I was wrong.

It wouldn't be gentlemanly of me to not say so.

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Here's the language as it stands now from the following URL red is what was removed, green is the new stuff:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?081+ful+SB476E

No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises [ ; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol . A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform a designated employee of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection ] shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit while actually engaged in the performance of his official duties.


I'm kinda upset that there's the must notify clause. I'm curious what the must notify clausepunishment is, and how you could go about proving that you in fact DID notify them without another witness to coroborrate your story. I also will be saying, "By the way, 18.2 308J3"... but that makes me feel guilty like I'm doing something wrong. Also, the zero tolerance clause gives me some pause. I've only drank while carrying twice that I can remember, both times with my girlfriend, and both times to cheer a celebration or event. Both times I had one sip of wine. Telling me I'm going to be charged with a misdemeanor if I'm seen doing that again doesn't mean much to me but I still have a problem with it.

But... it's on the books now, and it'll be that much harder to strike and remove it COMPLETELY from now on. So we can work at getting it tweaked in the coming sessions and years to come.

Full History here:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?081+sum+SB476

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unrequited wrote:

But... it's on the books now, and it'll be that much harder to strike and remove it COMPLETELY from now on. So we can work at getting it tweaked in the coming sessions and years to come.

Full History here:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?081+sum+SB476

Click to expand...

It is ***NOT*** on the books now! It has only cleared the Senate. It has to go through the House and be signed by the Governor. We have time to fix/change the bill yet. It is only 1/3 of the way to law - but it is alive. Had it been killed, we wouldn't be in a position to fix anything and concealed carry in restaurants would be back to square one.

If the bill becomes untenable, then we will recommend it be killed. For now, it isn't great, but it is still viable.