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Thread: Rally in Chesapeake for the guy held in accidental police shooting.

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    http://ronpaul.meetup.com/31/message...thread/4215230 This isn't a Ron Paul event but it originated on the meetup board.

    A rally is being held Saturday at the Chesapeake City Jail for the the guy who killed detective Shivers. As most of you know, only enough pot for a joint was found. The guy was robbed 2 days before the incident and when the detective attempted to bust his door down around midnight, the guy, thinking it was an intruder, shot him. He is being held without bond. It has been about a month now since this all happened and the Chesapeake Police will not speak to the public or answer questions about it. The Rally will be from 10-4. Please come out if you can and bring signs!

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    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
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    To clarify - the rally is not this Saturday - it is the following Saturday - Feb 23, 2008.

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    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.

    You may be right, but the jury is still out on this one. Something is just not adding up. There are a lot of people siding with the defendant.You rarely see public support for a cop killer.

    I also hear it was a .380. Now I am no ballistics expert, but I just can't understand how a .380 can penatrate a front door and still have the velocity to kill. Another thing I havn't heard is where was the detective's body armor? Raiding a suspected drug house with no body armor? It just doesn't add up.

    Here is his myspace page. http://www.myspace.com/ryan_frederick

    Cop killer isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I see him petting the llama.

    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    T Dubya wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.
    You may be right, but the jury is still out on this one. Something is just not adding up. There are a lot of people siding with the defendant.You rarely see public support for a cop killer.

    I also hear it was a .380. Now I am no ballistics expert, but I just can't understand how a .380 can penatrate a front door and still have the velocity to kill. Another thing I havn't heard is where was the detective's body armor? Raiding a suspected drug house with no body armor? It just doesn't add up.
    I agree that there are some strange circumstances surrounding this case, but in my opinion there is not enough credible information that would indicate the shooter had a reason to shoot someone outside their home through a door. Based on what I have read, I certainly WOULD NOT attend a rally in support of this guy. Police officer or not, how could you justify shooting someone who you could not identify through a door. Even with the new Castle Doctrine Laws, a person must still feel threatened to use deadly force. I don't see a real threat froma personOUTSIDE the home unless that person is shooting into the home, trying to set the home on fire, or trying to blow up the home with some type of explosive and from what we have read, none of those things were happening. Sorry, but I would have to have a lot more information before I could support the guy who shot an officer, or anyone else,OUTSIDE of his home!!!

    On the issue of a .380, it could definitely penetrate a wooden, or even a lightweight metal door and still retain enough energy to kill. Heck I could penetrate a wooden door with an arrow from my compound bow!!!

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    Make sure to bring the Ron Paul signs for this party. It sends a clear message.

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    TheApostle wrote:
    Make sure to bring the Ron Paul signs for this party. It sends a clear message.
    I may be wrong, but I don't think Ron Paul would be in support of this guy's action.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Just remember we are all patriots here. We may fight for 2nd amendment rights, but let's not forget the 4th, 5th, 6th, and maybe the 8th amendment to the constitution. This guy deserves due process.

    I want to hear about this informant. I want to know where he got his info. I want to know the circumstances that led to this guy giving up the info. I want to know the judge that signed the warrant. I want to learn all those circumstances. The problem is we are hearing none of this. So what's the deal?

    It's my understanding and you can take it with a grain of salt, but that the defendant had an amatuer greenhouse with a fountain and a pond. I heard he had some plant growing paraphernalia. When I say plant growing, I mean any ol' plant. There was no evidence of marijuana growing and only enough marijuana for a joint.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.

    We just don't know all of the facts surrounding this case.

    What we know: The Chesapeake City Council has initiated an independent investigation of the incident.

    What we all think we know: The police charged the shooter with first degree murder, but nobody has even suggested a plausible scenario where first degree murder would apply.

    Who should be held accountable? Maybe the judge that signed a no knock warrant, maybe the police tactical commander, maybe CPD Chief, maybe the shooter.





    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    T Dubya wrote:
    Just remember we are all patriots here. We may fight for 2nd amendment rights, but let's not forget the 4th, 5th, 6th, and maybe the 8th amendment to the constitution. This guy deserves due process.
    I totally agree he deserves due process, but, in my humble opinion, he does not deserve a public rally in support of what he did. Certainly not until a lot more information is available.

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    Thundar wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.

    We just don't know all of the facts surrounding this case.

    What we know: The Chesapeake City Council has initiated an independent investigation of the incident.

    What we all think we know: The police charged the shooter with first degree murder, but nobody has even suggested a plausible scenario where first degree murder would apply.

    Who should be held accountable? Maybe the judge that signed a no knock warrant, maybe the police tactical commander, maybe CPD Chief, maybe the shooter.




    Thundar, you are correct, we don't know all of the facts, actually we don't "know" any of them since our source is the public media and we all know how reliable some of thier information is. Still IF theofficer WAS actually outside the house, in my opinion, the shooter should not have fired.

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    Sorry...double tap

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:


    What we know: The Chesapeake City Council has initiated an independent investigation of the incident.

    The Chesapeake City Council set up an independent investigaion for a woman that got shot for threatening some cops with a knife that she had already cut them with.

    I don't have a lot of faith in the Chesapeake City Council.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Why not support him? he is innocent.

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    worrbaron wrote:
    Why not support him? he is innocent.
    I don't know if you were addressing me, but if you were:

    As for his innoncence or guilt, I will leave that to the judge and jury to decide.

    IF the information that we have is correct, the guy fired through a door without identifying his target which is, in my opinion, totally irresponsible handling of a firearm since he could not and by his own admission did not identify his target!!! Also by shooting blindly through a door, he endangered any innocent person who might be walking or driving down the street. Also, in my opinion, someone outside the housewould likelynot be an immediate threat, so no legal justification for deadly force. Those things are the reasons that I cannot and will not support his actions.

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    How can anyone justify having a support rally for a cop-killer?? Yes, maybe the guy was robbed a couple of nights before. That does not give you the right to shoot blindly through a door not knowing for sure what or who is on the other side.

    Apparently he had done something bad enough for them to issue a no knock warrant. I'm not positive but I would think they don't just go handing them out for every warrant that has to be served. Regardless of that, they found pot in his possession. I'll be the first to admit that I think it should be legal for responsible adults (just like alcohol) but it's not. As of now possession of weed with a gun gets you 'illegal possession of a gun'. Not to mention you perjured yourself when you filled out that piece of paper to buy it (assuming it's alegal gun). If you take the risk, you should be prepared to accept the consequences. No sympathy for stupidity.

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    There were a few conflicting reports when this tragedy happened. The time that the raid took place and whether he shot through the door or not. It does appear that the CPD is trying to cover there behinds and that's to be expected. After all they have the media and an uniformed public on there side. Had this been an a case of someone accidently trying to enter the wrong house like the 16 year old last year we wouldn't even be talking about it. But it was a LEO and there lives are always worth more then the rest of us. How about a big fund raiser for the shipyard worker that was killed this week at NNSY?? We don't even know his name.

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    One thing that ticks me off is how the Police Departments always rally to defend an Officer who made a bad shooting. They'll say something like"

    "The man was carrying a magazine with a picture of a Glock, the Officer mistook it for a real weapon and being in fear for his life, fired 17 times at the suspect"

    That brothers in blue BS really pisses me off.

    Now why......would I attend a rally for someone that did something just as stupid? Just because a man uses a gun, doesn't make him a BROTHER .

    There appears to be a lot of fault (and stupid) to go around. I suspect the cop was a cowboy. Pretty stupid entry!
    The shooting sure isn't justifiable but may be excusable. That's the courts job to figure that one out.

    I sure don't want to wave a sign around for someone that doesn't have the gonads to hold his fire until he can identify his target.

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    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
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    Let's also not forget that this is the same police force that shot up the wrong house just before Christmas - sounds like they need some major training.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Let's also not forget that this is the same police force that shot up the wrong house just before Christmas - sounds like they need some major training.
    That incident was a horrible black eye for the Chesapeake Police Force. The search warrant was based on incorrect information from an informant. The warrant was for an arrest warrant, where the need fore a home assault was dubious at best. The police assault on the home included firing shotguns into the home and using chemical weapons. The police made many mistakes in this incident. They did not acknowledge their mistake, and did not help to remediate the home they trashed. The chemicals they fired into the home rendered it uninhabitable. Only when the media and the city council questioned the police actions did they acknowledge the mistaken home invasion and try to repair the home.

    This case has a similar feel to it. Similarities:

    1. Anonymous informant

    2.Questionable use of home invasion by police

    3. Poor tactics by police

    4. Bad outcome

    5. Wall of silence by police

    Chief Justice (last name of the CPD Chief is Justice) really is tone deaf when it comes to community relations. His attitude and refusal to talk to the community hurt our police force and the faith of our citizens in the police force. Our police and our city deserve better.

    I live in this city and all are very sympathetic to the Detective and support our police, but are deeply concerned by one botched home assault and another home assault that also appears to have problems.

    The rally will focus much more scrutiny upon the police actions during and after the incident. If that scrutiny forcesour community to demand better policy, procedures or tactics, the the rally is a good thing. If thepolice have a negative active response to the rally then Chief Justice will have again failedmy policeofficers and my city.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    beradcee wrote:
    How can anyone justify having a support rally for a cop-killer?? Yes, maybe the guy was robbed a couple of nights before. That does not give you the right to shoot blindly through a door not knowing for sure what or who is on the other side.

    Apparently he had done something bad enough for them to issue a no knock warrant. I'm not positive but I would think they don't just go handing them out for every warrant that has to be served. Regardless of that, they found pot in his possession. I'll be the first to admit that I think it should be legal for responsible adults (just like alcohol) but it's not. As of now possession of weed with a gun gets you 'illegal possession of a gun'. Not to mention you perjured yourself when you filled out that piece of paper to buy it (assuming it's alegal gun). If you take the risk, you should be prepared to accept the consequences. No sympathy for stupidity.
    I don't know about Virginia but in CT a joints worth is just a simple ticket, not even a misdemeanor. Also, a weed conviction (under 4 ounces) DOES NOT prohibit you from possesing a handgun in CT. But i am sure having the 2 combined in someones possesion would cause some problems. I am not defending him as I would never shoot through a door at someone unless they were trying to blow/burn my house up/down. I just hope they were not raiding his house with a no knock warrant for a little bit of weed....if so..what a waste of time...

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

    I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

    He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.
    The intruder was crawling through the lower panel of the door.

    He shot someone on his curtilage, breaching his castle wall under cover of darkness, in reasonable fear (I know of home invasions under color of law too) for his life.

    He is being held 'accountable' by supporters and detractors. I see where you stand.

    Good job at hardening my attitude towards cops in general - as you accuse me/us of not looking too good for our OCDO lurkers. I am not a lurker, consider your appearance, however your blindness or ignorance may justify it.

    I hope my relationship with my town cop doesn't suffer.





    This is the root of cop bashing.

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    Sounds to me that most would be fine with the shooting as long as the shooter had waited just a little longer for the target to come through the doorway before opening fire. Same outcome. Same person dead. Different verdicts because of the timing and the thought that just maybe, there might have been a mother holding a baby as the door was being kicked in.

    What if the shooter had been a pretty little 110 pound woman? She hears the door being busted down and assumes it's her roid rage boyfriend coming back to smack her around so she opens fire, killing him. What's your verdict now?

    This is a tough one, especially with the lack of detail.

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    It comes down to a cop was shot and killed while doing the job he is paid to do on behalf of the people. He was fighting the war on drugs as best as can be accomplished.

    Someone has died and now people want to rally for the killer (of a cop) and this is going toprobably going to hurt the feelings of the cop's family and upsetthe community too. I am not sure how holding up signs is going to help anything.

    Did he know it was a cop when he fired? Who knows.... Maybe he did not hear them calling out when they were making entry. I am thinking he did not know since he had no real reason to get into a gun fight.

    Should he be charged with capitol murder?? Not our call. He can always be found guilty of a lesser crime when the details are all out in the open. It is still up to the jury to decide.

    This is our system of justice... and it works. Juries have let known murders off the hook so there is some hope after all.

    I understand protecting your home from intruders... buthe could have called out for the person to stop and gave him a chance to go away. The cop never made it inside to be a threat.. his head was poking into the opening and he was shot.

    I am confident that if the homeowner had called out.. the cop would have retreated and made contact. IMO.. the shooter was irresponsible and trigger happy. This probably due to the prior alleged attempts.


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    Sounds like this police department (like most police departments) needs to be under the watchful eye of a civilian review board, with the power to fire Any officer including the police chief.

    This Rambo super copmentality has to stop.

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