Rally in Chesapeake for the guy held in accidental police shooting.

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beradcee wrote:

How can anyone justify having a support rally for a cop-killer?? Yes, maybe the guy was robbed a couple of nights before. That does not give you the right to shoot blindly through a door not knowing for sure what or who is on the other side.

Apparently he had done something bad enough for them to issue a no knock warrant. I'm not positive but I would think they don't just go handing them out for every warrant that has to be served. Regardless of that, they found pot in his possession. I'll be the first to admit that I think it should be legal for responsible adults (just like alcohol) but it's not. As of now possession of weed with a gun gets you 'illegal possession of a gun'. Not to mention you perjured yourself when you filled out that piece of paper to buy it (assuming it's alegal gun). If you take the risk, you should be prepared to accept the consequences. No sympathy for stupidity.

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I don't know about Virginia but in CT a joints worth is just a simple ticket, not even a [size="-1"]misdemeanor. Also, a weed conviction (under 4 ounces) DOES NOT prohibit you from possesing a handgun in CT. But i am sure having the 2 combined in someones possesion would cause some problems. I am not defending him as I would never shoot through a door at someone unless they were trying to blow/burn my house up/down. I just hope they were not raiding his house with a no knock warrant for a little bit of weed....if so..what a waste of time...
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LEO 229 wrote:

Sorry.. but are we talking about the guy who knowinglypointed his gun and shot at people on the other side of his door?

I would agree that maybe he was unaware it was the police... but this was not "accidental" and those shots were at the door so they were notwarning shots.

He shot at someone OUTSIDE his house and should be held accountable for his actions.

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The intruder was crawling through the lower panel of the door.

He shot someone on his curtilage, breaching his castle wall under cover of darkness, in reasonable fear (I know of home invasions under color of law too) for his life.

He is being held 'accountable' by supporters and detractors. I see where you stand.

Good job at hardening my attitude towards cops in general - as you accuse me/us of not looking too good for our OCDO lurkers. I am not a lurker, consider your appearance, however your blindness or ignorance may justify it.

I hope my relationship with my town cop doesn't suffer.





This is the root of cop bashing.

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Sounds to me that most would be fine with the shooting as long as the shooter had waited just a little longer for the target to come through the doorway before opening fire. Same outcome. Same person dead. Different verdicts because of the timing and the thought that just maybe, there might have been a mother holding a baby as the door was being kicked in.

What if the shooter had been a pretty little 110 pound woman? She hears the door being busted down and assumes it's her roid rage boyfriend coming back to smack her around so she opens fire, killing him. What's your verdict now?

This is a tough one, especially with the lack of detail.

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It comes down to a cop was shot and killed while doing the job he is paid to do on behalf of the people. He was fighting the war on drugs as best as can be accomplished.

Someone has died and now people want to rally for the killer (of a cop) and this is going toprobably going to hurt the feelings of the cop's family and upsetthe community too. I am not sure how holding up signs is going to help anything.

Did he know it was a cop when he fired? Who knows.... Maybe he did not hear them calling out when they were making entry. I am thinking he did not know since he had no real reason to get into a gun fight.

Should he be charged with capitol murder?? Not our call. He can always be found guilty of a lesser crime when the details are all out in the open. It is still up to the jury to decide.

This is our system of justice... and it works. Juries have let known murders off the hook so there is some hope after all.

I understand protecting your home from intruders... buthe could have called out for the person to stop and gave him a chance to go away. The cop never made it inside to be a threat.. his head was poking into the opening and he was shot.

I am confident that if the homeowner had called out.. the cop would have retreated and made contact. IMO.. the shooter was irresponsible and trigger happy. This probably due to the prior alleged attempts.

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Sounds like this police department (like most police departments) needs to be under the watchful eye of a civilian review board, with the power to fire Any officer including the police chief.

This Rambo super copmentality has to stop.

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Do the policeidentify themselves as they are busting down the door or do they tend to break down the door first?

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IF the information that we have is correct, the guy fired through a door without identifying his target which is, in my opinion, totally irresponsible handling of a firearm since he could not and by his own admission did not identify his target!!! Also by shooting blindly through a door, he endangered any innocent person who might be walking or driving down the street. Also, in my opinion, someone outside the housewould likelynot be an immediate threat, so no legal justification for deadly force. Those things are the reasons that I cannot and will not support his actions.


But that is my point; he is innocent until a court proves otherwise, no one here knows exactly what went on, but most people are already condemning him and calling him a "cop killer". So much for innocent until proven guilty.

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That incident was a horrible black eye for the Chesapeake Police Force. The search warrant was based on incorrect information from an informant. The warrant was for an arrest warrant, where the need fore a home assault was dubious at best. The police assault on the home included firing shotguns into the home and using chemical weapons. The police made many mistakes in this incident. They did not acknowledge their mistake, and did not help to remediate the home they trashed. The chemicals they fired into the home rendered it uninhabitable. Only when the media and the city council questioned the police actions did they acknowledge the mistaken home invasion and try to repair the home.


Yet this guy is immediatly considered to be guilty and has been condemned by many members on this board before due process has taken it course.

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Iam confident that if the homeowner had called out.. the cop would have retreated and made contact. IMO.. the shooter was irresponsible and trigger happy. This probably due to the prior alleged attempts.


Or the home ownerwould have been shot. Maybe if the police had knocked on the door, presented ID and the warrant this would not have happend.

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worrbaron wrote:

Or the home ownerwould have been shot. Maybe if the police had knocked on the door, presented ID and the warrant this would not have happend.

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I highly doubt they wanted to kill the home owner... Knocking and waiting gives the homeowner time to destroy the evidence and this is why they requested the "no knock" warrant.



Let's set aside the warrant, the investigation, and the decision to enter at night.



Let's focus on the main issue and that is that "someone" was shot and killed outside the homeneedlessly. The homeowner failed to identify a target or even call out to warn he was armed.



Let's play the what if game for a second and everyone can tell me what they think... OK?



What if the house was on fire and the home owner was unaware... This actually happens and you have probably seen it in the news before.

His neighbor,a police officer driving by, or even an off dutyfireman walking his dogpounded on the door and there was no answer. They decided tokick in the door to RESCUE the occupants from certain death!!

Should the homeowner shoot first at a head of a personpoking in the hole of the door about to call out.. "YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!" ???

The person trying to save lives is shot and killed for his efforts.

Would it have hurt to call out first?? Then the subject at the door could have a chance to respond.

This is why I find his actions irresponsible. Maybe not guilty of "capitol" murder.. but it still murder.

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Your hypothetical situation did not happen and has so many problems with it, it would never happen. No one is going towalk up to the door calmly and then violently knock on it and break it down.(unless they have a motive)You are going to be screaming from the street, as you pound on the door, and if you are breaking anything, you will be screaming still.Not all the details have been made available to us, so I think its a little premature to judge anything. What I do know forcertain is that the homeowner was on his property, someone was breaking into his house, that someone did not identify themselves,shots were fired.

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229,'what if won't work here". Nor do I agree with Worrbaron, that the fellow should be absolved.

We don't know much about what really happend.

What we do know is:

The PD has a bad track record.

There was a no knock warrant and that bothers me. For those that have never been involved in a dynamic entry, they happen very fast. Either they made a lot of noise getting in position or the homeowner saw them out of a window. Otherwise he could never had the time to shoot through the door. The entry was botched!


Never the less...it does appear that he shot through the door.
That's a BAD THING!!!!!!!!!!

Any rally should wait until we have a glimmer of what really happened. Then if the homeowner is in the right.......have at them!

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LEO 229 wrote:

I understand protecting your home from intruders... buthe could have called out for the person to stop and gave him a chance to go away. The cop never made it inside to be a threat.. his head was poking into the opening and he was shot.

I am confident that if the homeowner had called out.. the cop would have retreated and made contact. IMO.. the shooter was irresponsible and trigger happy. This probably due to the prior alleged attempts.

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Actually, you don't know that for a fact. There are a lot of things we don't know, and there are a lot of unexplained things that suggest that it's just as likely that the cops screwed up and are covering their butts as it is that Ryan Frederick screwed up.

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LEO 229 wrote:

worrbaron wrote:

Or the home ownerwould have been shot. Maybe if the police had knocked on the door, presented ID and the warrant this would not have happend.

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I highly doubt they wanted to kill the home owner... Knocking and waiting gives the homeowner time to destroy the evidence and this is why they requested the "no knock" warrant.




Should the homeowner shoot first at a head of a personpoking in the hole of the door about to call out.. "YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!" ???

The person trying to save lives is shot and killed for his efforts.

Would it have hurt to call out first?? Then the subject at the door could have a chance to respond.

This is why I find his actions irresponsible. Maybe not guilty of "capitol" murder.. but it still murder.

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First of all, the evidence they claimed was present was a large quantity of pot plants in a detached garage (we'll ignore the fact that he actually was growing Japanese Maple Trees). With no ability to reach the garage without leaving his house, that removed any real reason for a no knock warrant.

Second of all, "YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE" is exactly what was yelled to me by the people that tried to invade my home four years ago.

As for calling out first, I have no duty to do so if I feel that my life is in imminent danger. In fact, identifying my location to an intruder would only put my life in greater threat.

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Nice! lying about what I originally said is great, do you have any other slander you would like to sell here? My original post was that he is innocent until proven guilty, I was making the point that the fact of this is seemed to be missed by many here who rush to condemn.

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I think what this comes down to is what a complete failure the "War on Drugs" has turned out to be. It is a war, a war on common sense and innocent people.

All it does is put cops and "victimless criminals" lives in danger.

We have had this madness for 20 years, when can we stop it.

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worrbaron wrote:

Your hypothetical situation did not happen and has so many problems with it, it would never happen. No one is going towalk up to the door calmly and then violently knock on it and break it down. (unless they have a motive)You are going to be screaming from the street, as you pound on the door, and if you are breaking anything, you will be screaming still.Not all the details have been made available to us, so I think its a little premature to judge anything. What I do know forcertain is that the homeowner was on his property, someone was breaking into his house, that someone did not identify themselves,shots were fired.

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Are you saying cops and firemen do not pound on doors and kick them in to rescue the occupants when the building is found to be on fire?

I know for a fact that this happens. And the cops did not scream as they approached calmly either. Their motive was to remain in control and save lives. It is what they are known to do at times.

We have no idea if the police that night did or did not identify who they were... We do not shots were fired by the homeowner whoDID NOTcall out to warn he was armed.

I feel bad for you that you are blind to see this. :?

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peter nap wrote:

229,'what if won't work here". Nor do I agree with Worrbaron, that the fellow should be absolved.

We don't know much about what really happend.

What we do know is:

The PD has a bad track record.

There was a no knock warrant and that bothers me. For those that have never been involved in a dynamic entry, they happen very fast. Either they made a lot of noise getting in position or the homeowner saw them out of a window. Otherwise he could never had the time to shoot through the door. The entry was botched!


Never the less...it does appear that he shot through the door.
That's a BAD THING!!!!!!!!!!

Any rally should wait until we have a glimmer of what really happened. Then if the homeowner is in the right.......have at them!

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I can agree with you.... shooting blindly is not a good thing.

Just pointing out that what is at your front door may not be what you perceive it to be.

Something to think about in the future should it happen to anyone else here.

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Drug users are not always victimless criminals. Unfortunately severe punishments for those using drugs like heroin, cocaine, oxycoton, crystal meth et cetera will not be stomached by today's weak society. While marijuana isn't a superman drug or as severe as others, I don't want some pothead who is useless cooking my food, or ringing me up in a grocery store. It is the same as having someone drinking and driving. I don't want some drunk moron driving down the street.

Then there are those here on this forum that would contend driving drunk is a constitutional right!!! Their belief is liberty is the right to do whatsoever one pleases even to the point to deprive others of their liberty and life.

He did have marijuana and did have a gun and he shot and killed someone. The jury must judge.

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I am saying that police and firemen are quite verbal about a fire when they approach a structure, something you did not include in your original statement. My point is that your hypothetical is completely different than what appears to have happend. You paint a picture of public safety officials trying to help someone who has a danger in their home. What actually happend in this shooting is completely unrelated and does not share any similarities except for the actors involved.