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Reports: Several people shot at Northern Illinois University

vmathis12019

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Now that the anger has subsided, sadness once again sets in.

Let those of us among us who will pray for all of those touched by this tragedy. These students didn't deserve what happened today. Even the one's who weren't injured have to live with this trageyd for the rest of their lives.

The worst thing about it is, that I know, at 8 o clock in the morning, I will be stepping into a classroom myself, unarmed, where anyone could walk in and do the same thing that happened at NIU. That said, pray for ALL college students who go as fish, unarmed and defenseless, in the proverbial barrel.
 

Schofield

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Goddamnit. I just found out that a very good friend of mine goes to that particular university and she had just got out of class and was walking by the building when cops finally showed up. I thought she went to one nearby so I wasn't worrying. :banghead:
 

sv_libertarian

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Schofield wrote:
Goddamnit. I just found out that a very good friend of mine goes to that particular university and she had just got out of class and was walking by the building when cops finally showed up. I thought she went to one nearby so I wasn't worrying. :banghead:
Ouch. She is fine I trust?
 

ConditionThree

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vmathis12019 wrote:
So the scary and authoritative loud beeping will surely stop the madman when he walks through the metal detector... after he's already shot the guard at the door in the head. What a wonderful idea.

JUST LET THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO CARRY A G*DDAMN GUN! What's the debate all about here?! We should do this, We should do that.

Just simply make it legal for people to be armed. EVERYWHERE. PERIOD.

Obviously, that's a big step. A step in the right direction would be to legalize carry on campus, for ALL STUDENTS.

+1

What he said.
 

Schofield

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sv_libertarian wrote:
Schofield wrote:
Goddamnit. I just found out that a very good friend of mine goes to that particular university and she had just got out of class and was walking by the building when cops finally showed up. I thought she went to one nearby so I wasn't worrying. :banghead:
Ouch. She is fine I trust?

Yeah, she's fine. She's from Arizona so she didn't freak out and break down in tears at the mention of a shooter.
 

AbNo

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vmathis12019 wrote:
So the scary and authoritative loud beeping will surely stop the madman when he walks through the metal detector... after he's already shot the guard at the door in the head.  What a wonderful idea.

Didn't someone already try that just outside of St. Louis?
 

I_Hate_Illinois

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Zed wrote:
First off, I offer my Condolences to the Familys & Friends of the dead.

[Rant]
When Are states like Illinois going to learn?

More Guns = Less Crime because the crooks/psychos think twice if their is any chance they may get their brains splattered all over the nearest wall.

If at least one person had been Carrying Concealed or Openly, this nut would have been taken out after the first 1-3 shots had been fired.

Do the math.

CCW/OCW + Psycho on rampage = Threat Stopped quick + Lives Saved.
[/Rant]
I agree, brother. Unfortunately, I live in this hell hole and I'm just waiting for Gov. Blagojevich to come out screaming for more gun control.
 

kmcdowel

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I'm watching this on the news and it really just baffles me. It seems so obvious that the answer is to let students carry if they chose to. What do sheeple think when watch stories like this? ...seriously, I'm asking
 

bohdi

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They think guns are the problem, the easy access to guns are the problem, they think more control is the solution. They don't look beyond that. They don't see any potential mental illness issues and how that could be the source. They don't see how lack of follow up by public people tasked to monitor these types of people allow them to do henious things. It's easier to blame an evil gun, than it is to blame the evil in a human being.

That being said, I wonder if it has anything to do with demonic posession. Yeah, I can hear it now. WTF are you talking about bohdi, that's out from left field your saying. The church recently(last two weeks)put out (on cnn I think) that they are way over booked on excorcisms they need to perform. No joke. Maybe it's not an evil person, maybe it's an evil spirit. Either way it's just plain evil. Just a thought.
 

possumboy

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bohdi wrote:
They think guns are the problem, the easy access to guns are the problem, they think more control is the solution. They don't look beyond that. They don't see any potential mental illness issues and how that could be the source. They don't see how lack of follow up by public people tasked to monitor these types of people allow them to do henious things. It's easier to blame an evil gun, than it is to blame the evil in a human being.

That being said, I wonder if it has anything to do with demonic posession. Yeah, I can hear it now. WTF are you talking about bohdi, that's out from left field your saying. The church recently (last two weeks)put out (on cnn I think) that they are way over booked on excorcisms they need to perform. No joke. Maybe it's not an evil person, maybe it's an evil spirit. Either way it's just plain evil. Just a thought.

It is easier for them to go through life scared of and blaming a object they have the ability to mostly avoid.

If they didn't blame the gun, they would realize that it could be anyone they meet, walk past, call a friend, or a mate.

If they accepted it was people, they would realize that it is not theobject that makes their world unsafe. That it is the person in the car that runs through a college campus, that it is the person with the knife killing someone, that it is person with a gun and visions of media glory doing all the damage, that it is the person with explosives strapped themselves blowing up the market place, and that everyone you see on a plane could have plans to fly it into a building.

Blaming the gun helps remove the fear of day to day life for these people. They believe they are not responsible for their own safety. They want to be protected, not protect themselves.
 

.40 Cal

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kmcdowel wrote:
..Seems like a good time to return fire. Or run and hope not to get shot in the back.
How about knocking the shit out ofhim before he gets his next round into battery? If he is reloading, he's not shooting. I know it's a high stress environment, but someone must have had some self defense training that could have stopped him at that moment. We have lost our balls... :banghead:
 

tarzan1888

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Lie Detector



Sleepless wrote:
Zed I don't agree that it would be good for anybody to open carry in a school because if the gunman or gunmen saw the person or personswho was open carrying and was planning on shooting inside the school then I believe that the person or persons who was open carrying would be the first victim..........


False.



This is an Old Anti lie that has been around since Cain Killed Able.



They are looking for victims not resistance.



Example, last year at this same time (see a parallels) at Trolley Square in Utah, the shooter stopped killing when he was engaged by the off duty cop who was dining with his wife in the mall where the killing was taking place. Remember this Cop ignored the no gun signs when he and his wife carried their weapons into the mall.



Tarzan
 

bohdi

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Cnn's i-report is asking for input, here's what I provided:

All the attention given to these horrific mass shootings in a way are advertising to the sick and twisted minds out there that the easiest way to make a name for yourself is to select a gun free zone (like a university, K-12 school, public mall, etc.) and it’s open season. Victims are plenty, and are easy prey as they are already disarmed. A murderer can take as much time as they need since they already know they will not initially be faced with any armed resistance what so ever. They also know that while the police may arrive quickly, the police are still going to have to take some time to organize and figure out how and where to respond with force. While it took only two minutes for the police to respond and be on scene, the rampage was already over in this case.



When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Had the school allowed the faculty, or the students to carry concealed weapons on campus, the numbers could be lower. This cannot be ignored as was proven in Colorado Springs recently; armed citizens are deterrents and can put an end to a murder spree quickly. The school has a duty to provide security, actual security for the students, not measures to make students “feel” safe. I imagine that’s part of the tuition cost, and if I was a student attending there today I’d feel ripped off. If the administrators cannot guarantee a safe environment for learning then they should allow responsible adults – which last time I checked is the term used for people of age 18 and older in this country, to be armed on campus and off as local/state laws allow. Otherwise the school administration should look no further than them for allowing this to happen. They make the policy, they enforce the policy.



People say allowing students to be armedis a bad idea; they can’t control themselves, and are irresponsible. These statements are unfounded, and stereotype adults of a wide age range and maturity levels. It’s a form of discrimination. As a responsible gun owner I can meet with my state representatives in Virginia, in the General Assembly building in Richmond, while ARMED, but if I were to enroll at a local university I cannot attend classes armed for my own protection? Tell me that is not discrimination, against my constitutional rights. While a university or college is private property, and private property owners can request you disarm, they then should be liable for any and all lawsuits that are the result of any damage that happens upon you for not creating a safe environment. How many more of these mass slayings will we have to endure before people wake up and realize that the current policy of disarming students is not working? Perhaps the answer is to take on-line classes. At least that way in my home, I can be armed, attend class, and know for certain that I am “safe”.
 

possumboy

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tarzan1888 wrote:
Lie Detector



Sleepless wrote:
Zed I don't agree that it would be good for anybody to open carry in a school because if the gunman or gunmen saw the person or personswho was open carrying and was planning on shooting inside the school then I believe that the person or persons who was open carrying would be the first victim..........


False.



This is an Old Anti lie that has been around since Cain Killed Able.



They are looking for victims not resistance.



Example, last year at this same time (see a parallels) at Trolley Square in Utah, the shooter stopped killing when he was engaged by the off duty cop who was dining with his wife in the mall where the killing was taking place. Remember this Cop ignored the no gun signs when he and his wife carried their weapons into the mall.



Tarzan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgNUqtkXTQ8

Video has a real life encounter of armed suspects moving to someone else that was not visibly armed - unfortunately for the suspects, the other person was armed... Starts at 07:00 mark.
 

DeadCenter

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LEO 229 wrote:
bohdi wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
It seems to be a awful trend happening at schools now.

Or are people catching on that it's easier to do and harder to get caught at schools? Why be a serial killer when you can be a instant mass murderer? Is there a trend here that people are missing among the truely psychotic? Sure a truck bomb has it's pluses and minuses as far as lethality goes, but not as shock value/making a name for yourself. I was just wondering about this myself. Seems like it's alot more, more recently. Is it because it's being reported more often or because other sick minds are jumping on the "fish in the barrel" band wagon?

My sympathies to the victims and their families, my words are not intended to make light ofyour experience. Just thinking outside the box out loud.
People see this as a way to die [suB][suP]and become famous[/suP][/suB].
That just eats me up. how can someone think killing others and then killing themselves is fame. It's a sick world. The entire nation should be allowed to carry (if they are not criminals or insane). I sit here and shake my head in disbelief over stuff like this.
 

LEO 229

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DeadCenter wrote:
That just eats me up. how can someone think killing others and then killing themselves is fame. It's a sick world. The entire nation should be allowed to carry (if they are not criminals or insane). I sit here and shake my head in disbelief over stuff like this.
I agree... Criminals are getting worse as the years pass by.

You need to be armed now-a-days just to survive.

Chances are slim you will be in a gun fight but it you are one of the unlucky people.... it is good to take the bad guy down.
 

No NAU

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This is a very sad incident indeed. My condolences to victims and families.

Again we see another mass shooting where medication is involved. Let us not ignore the elephant in the room.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i72zWlWRLvc1ejGI5WpefItEjKCAD8UQS7A81

"NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication
By CARYN ROUSSEAU and DEANNA BELLANDI – 1 hour ago
DEKALB, Ill. (AP) — The man who gunned down five people at Northern Illinois University in a suicidal rampage became erratic after halting his medication and carried a shotgun to campus inside a guitar case, police said Friday."

Here is another link:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e7_1197058450

"Robert Hawkins, the 19 year old who killed himself and eight other people with an assault rifle last night in Omaha, Nebraska had a history of treatment with psychiatric drugs for depression and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and was on prozac according to press reports .

Of course the headlines will once again focus on how evil and dangerous guns are, how the second amendment should be reevaluated and will once again ignore the fact that this young man was subject to dangerous brain altering chemicals for a number of years prior to this tragic incident.

Hawkins is the latest in a long line of shooters all of which were on prescribed antidepressants before they suddenly snapped and decided to kill as many people as they could before taking their own lives.

Investigators believe that Cho Seung Hui, the Virginia Tech murderer, had been taking anti-depressant medication at some point before the shootings last April, according to The Chicago Tribune .

Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, as well as 15-year-old Kip Kinkel, the Oregon killer who gunned down his parents and classmates, were all on psychotropic drugs.

Jeff Weise, the Red Lake High School killer was on prozac , "Unabomber" Ted Kaczinski, Michael McDermott, John Hinckley, Jr., Byran Uyesugi, Mark David Chapman and Charles Carl Roberts IV, the Amish school killer, were all on SSRI psychotropic drugs.

Antidepressant drugs have never been tested on children nor approved by the FDA for use on children, however, Scientific studies proving that prozac encourages suicidal tendencies in young people are voluminous and span back nearly a decade.

In 2005, it was revealed that Eli Lilly had full knowledge of a 1200% increase in suicide risk for takers of their Prozac. This evidence came in the wake of findings published in the British Medical Journal a year previously. "

_________________________________________

Here is a long list of folks who were otherwise peaceful until they started antidepressants and turned violent:

http://ssri-uksupport.com/files/homicidesSSRISandADHDmedications.pdf

An example of data here:

Christopher Pittman, aged 12, (Paxil then Zoloft). Known amongst family as 'pop-pops shadow', hehad always been very close to his grandfather. Shortly after being prescribed Zoloft he shot both hisgrandparents dead and burned the house down. Imprisoned, he waited 3 years for trial, and was thentried as an adult - a practice acceptable in the USA.

__________________________________________

Perhaps we need to look to the medical profession to provide a solution rather than blaming an inanimate object like a gun...

Can a case be made that a doc mis-prescribed or carelessly prescribed a med causing violence and be held responsible? Makes more sense to me than going after the gun.

Big pharma regularly perks docs for prescribing more of their meds. Foe example a trip to a "conference" in Hawaii for big prescribers. Ample ground for corruption and unneeded prescriptions there...

The other thing that would be helpful is if the docs who prescribed the meds to the shooters could be identified and be able to take a good look at the shooters records to try and determine if the prescription was warranted. As I understand it, these docs are shielded behind HIPAA

A doc with a prescription pad in this day of big pharma/govt collusion can be just as dangerous as a gun, butcher knife or chainsaw in the wrong hands.
 

Sleepless

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No NAU wrote:
This is a very sad incident indeed. My condolences to victims and families.

Again we see another mass shooting where medication is involved. Let us not ignore the elephant in the room.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i72zWlWRLvc1ejGI5WpefItEjKCAD8UQS7A81

"NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication
By CARYN ROUSSEAU and DEANNA BELLANDI – 1 hour ago
DEKALB, Ill. (AP) — The man who gunned down five people at Northern Illinois University in a suicidal rampage became erratic after halting his medication and carried a shotgun to campus inside a guitar case, police said Friday."

Here is another link:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e7_1197058450

"Robert Hawkins, the 19 year old who killed himself and eight other people with an assault rifle last night in Omaha, Nebraska had a history of treatment with psychiatric drugs for depression and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and was on prozac according to press reports.

I am myself a person suffering from severe depression for the last 10 years and have been diagnosed with both ADHD and Tourette Syndrome, my depression manifests itself as physical exhaustion and sometimes mental exhaustion so when it hits me I just lay down in bed and try to sleep which helps most of the time but I never have any other symptoms then this.

I know that a lot of people who suddenly go off their medication can actually have suicidal tendencies, but this does not explain why he would go to a school and kill people and then kill himself unless he felt that he somehow was trying to save them from the kind of life that he saw for himself.

I can't say for certain if it was the medications that were responsible or if it was his depressed mind trying to reason with itself about the best way to end his own life but I can state that I highly doubt that he did it because he had ADHD.

So as a person suffering from mental "problems" I am planning on applying for a license to carry when I move to the US but question is how do we stop people with suicidal tendencies from being allowed to carry???

We could let doctors have a reporting system for people they believe could be a danger to themselves or others but as I have found out when I lived in Sweden it doesn't always work.

My doctor contacted the swedish DMV because I had Tourette Syndrome and he wasn't sure if Ishould legally be able to drive even though he had no knowledge aboutmy disabilityand never asked me how it would manifest itself if I concentrated.

But what I am trying to state through my long-winded comment is that there is several things to look at, the severity of the mental disability, the medication and the patients resolve for continuing to take the medication for the foreseeable future and also how the doctors can be integrated into this even though they have a responsibility to file a warning if they believe the patient can be a danger to themselves or others.

The truth is unfortunately that this isn't always done, some doctors just prescribe medication depending on the disability and sometimes prescribes a medication which might help but which gets the doctor a bonus from the pharmaceutical company that they are lobbied by.

But I can say that even though I have had depression for a long time, I wouldn't want any doctor to restrict me from carrying a gun because of their preconceived ideas about what depression is.

As an example I can tell you about when I went to my family doctor a while ago and I told him I needed medication for depression because I thought it might help me, my doctor asked me if I felt sad and I told him no and I explained to him how my depression manifested itself and I told him that I knew it was depression and once again he asked me if I felt sad because his preconceived notion of depression was that if a person is suffering from depression then they feel sad even though there are many shades of gray though he wouldn't accept that.

I would like to know what you all think about how we can change this if at all possible because something needs to change.
 
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