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Thread: Opened carried tonight...

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    I went to the mall tonight and stopped for a bite to eat in the food court. I was in the food court for about 30 minutes without being approached, verbally berated, and I did not notice anyone with bug eyes. I openly carried my XD .45 on my hip without incident. It felt great. There is one fact that I left out however...I was at a mall in Virginia, not Maryland. That little state line makes the difference between "legally" exercising a right and "illegally" exercising the right. You folks in VA are spoiled...getting a plate full of cake and eating it too. And you can probably have seconds and thirds...

    And they say the grass is not greener on the other side...

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Which mall was this?

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    Which mall was this?
    Dulles Towne Center in Virginia. Unfotunately, while shopping at any mall in Maryland, I do not "possess" the right to do the same.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Was just talking to on old customer of mine ( old as in he's been a customer for many years) about carrying and PA and VA vs MD, and I mentioned about you OCing in VA, but hadn't gotten online yet to see if you had responded, to see which mall.

    I'll tell you theres got to be a heck of alot of MDers who want to at least be able to ccw. I have never talked gun issues with this guy before, but it kinda came up as we chatted. We alsotalked about what a craphole Baltimore is, and the crime in Bolton Hill. He told me he used to have a snowplowing job in the city and had to plow some of the crappy neighborhoods. He said he used to keep a shotgun in the truck with him.

    He had never heard of open carry in VA before, I told him to not be surprised if he goes there again someday and sees ordinary citizens walking about or eating at a restraurant with a pistol on their hip. I told him even he could do it! I also told him about the FL nonres ccw permit. We didn't have time for me to tell him about PA open carry.

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    I think there are plenty of folks that would jump at the chance to legally carry in Maryland, but sit back in the shadows waiting for some miraculous change in the state laws. Some stand up and make their voices heard, some merely accept what they're given and hope that one day it will be better, some could care less one way or the other and simply hope not to catch a stray round from some bad guy.

    As "open" as Virginia is, there are still many folks who are simply not educated in the law...what they can and cannot do, etc. I was outside the hotel in Va talking to someone from the class I was attending. After about 20 minutes of conversation, the person asked, "Is that a gun on your belt?" I replied yes. Then of course I was asked if I had a permit to carry and I replied that a permit was not required to open carry in the State of Virginia. This other person (also from MD) said something to the affect that it wasn't like that in Maryland...and I of course replied..."I know, I know."

    It seems that so many folks simply accept what they're given (or denied) and that's it. I believe that many, many more folks would choose the option to defend themselves and their families if given the chance.

    I hope to never have the "need" for my car insurance or home owners insurance, but I absolutely want to know that it is there if I need it.

    Be safe, have a great week!

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Glad it went OK at Dulles Town Center, sometimes it doesn't.
    http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=...4&t=290528

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    My wife and I went to the Dulles Town Center tonight to do some shopping and decided to get a bite to eat at the food court while we were there. In full compliance with VA state law, since at least one vendor in the food court sells alcohol (the food court actually has signs up to designate where the consumption area is), I took my jacket off, ordered food and my wife and I sat down to eat our meal. Just as we were finishing, I noticed a couple of Loudoun County Sheriffs looking at us and talking from a distance. I told my wife, "we're about to get talkted to, so just be chill ok?"

    Sure enough, one of the officers came over, pulled out one of the unused chairs and sat down at our table. He asked me if I was LEO, to which I responded "no sir". He said "Do you read the newspaper" and I responded "Yes sir". He went on to tell me (in not so many words) that he thought I was stupid for open carrying in the mall and asked if I had a permit, which I do. He said "Let me see it" He also told me to give him my drivers license. He was very belligerent and disrespectful through the entire conversation. He wrote all of my information down and called in to run a check on me. His call started, "Yeah, this is officer *****, I'm calling about the guy with the canon." WTF, the guy with canon? I'm carrying a 4" barrel 1911!

    While this was going on, we had a conversation in which I told him that I would LOVE to be carrying concealed right now, but in compliance with VA law, I *have* to open carry to eat here because alcohol is sold in the food court" He said "I could see if you were at a bar or something, but....and that's all I'm going to say about that." CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!?!?! In utter astonishment, I said, "Are you TELLING me to break the law by carrying concealed in an establishment with a license to sell alcohol?" His response was "What I'm saying is that I'm not questioning your constitutionality, I'm questioning your judgement to open-carry in here." When I again asked him how I should comply with the law, he said something along the lines of "concealed carry or leave your gun in the car". Absolutely ridiculous.

    During my repeated statements that I'm doing what I'm required to do to be compliant with VA state law, he several times made the statement that I could either leave, or he'd go get mall management to come and kick me out, then if I didn't leave, he'd arrest me for trespassing. At some point during all of this two more officers came over and stood over my shoulder and asked officer ****** if he needed assistance. My wife said "it's ok, we're leaving" and the officer over my shoulder said in his toughest voice "I wasn't talking to you I'm talking to another officer."

    I mentioned that if the mall owners wanted no guns in the mall, which it is absolutely their right to decide, they were required by law to post signs indicating so at the entrances, which they have not done. Again, he said "You want me to go get management and have them tell you to leave, and then if you don't I'll arrest you for trespassing and we can go to a different kind of court."

    As we were getting up to leave, he told me "now get out of here". I asked him again how I was supposed to comply between where we were sitting and the boundary of the food court, and he said "this conversation is over". We threw our trash away and left, following his advice and putting my jacket on immediately.

    I'm honestly appalled at how unprofessional both of these officers were to two people sitting eating dinner, obviously not 'bad guys'. I will be following up with the LCSO, asking for clarification on how it is I'm to comply with state law in an establishment that doesn't prohibit carry of weapons in the establishment as required by law.

    What a way to ruin a night out shopping with my wife.....sheesh.

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    I did notice that there was no shortage of deputies in that mall. I did not see any visible signage stating that the mall has a no weapons policy...and I did look.It would have been nice for the guy in the story to have a voice recorder. Although it is their job to enforce the law, that responsibilityshould never be construed as a platform to verbally berate citizens.

    Is there a job where it is acceptable for an employee to be unprofessional?

    I would have asked for mall management to ask me to leave...then, I would have politely left the mall. It may have very well been a bluff...


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    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    lawmanhdg wrote:
    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    Folks in Virginia are not required to pass any background check or demonstrate proficiency in use of the weapon in order to legally Open Carry.

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    Glad it went OK at Dulles Town Center, sometimes it doesn't.
    http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=...4&t=290528

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    This is plain and simple harassment by the officers involved. We don't need to hear their personal "opinions" and lectures any more than they do. They are not allowed to legislate from the uniform and berate citizens in public, or at least they shouldn't be able to. I support the tough job they have to do everyday but I really get sick and tired of this garbage all-the-time. They are paid to be professionals, so they should act like it. There was no reason for this type of treatment whatsoever.

    I have carried in that verymall on more than one occasion and have not had any problems before. It is not posted and nothing was done wrong here. There were no threatening actions, just a fellow having dinner with his wife... And following the law... And then told to violate it because he wasn't comfortable..

    Sheesh, I could go on all night..

    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    lawmanhdg wrote:
    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    Welcome to OCDO! Hope to see more of you here.

    While I understand you point of view, what you describe is still a form of government control (aka infringement)and criminals don't OC.

    Most OC'ers train with their weapons as much and sometimes more than your average street LEO. OC'ing is a very serious decision and not one made lightly. If you carry a gun to defend yourself, you had BETTER know how to use it (your own life may depend on it). I've never met anyone that OC'ed that wasn't proficient. It's just not something you decide one day do to be COOL, as it can draw (sometimes unwelcome) attention to yourself. It's a HUGE decision, but it should be MY decision, not the government's.







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    Regular Member USMC91E6's Avatar
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    amen brother

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    BobCav wrote:
    lawmanhdg wrote:
    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    Welcome to OCDO! Hope to see more of you here.

    While I understand you point of view, what you describe is still a form of government control (aka infringement)and criminals don't OC.

    Most OC'ers train with their weapons as much and sometimes more than your average street LEO. OC'ing is a very serious decision and not one made lightly. If you carry a gun to defend yourself, you had BETTER know how to use it (your own life may depend on it). I've never met anyone that OC'ed that wasn't proficient. It's just not something you decide one day do to be COOL, as it can draw (sometimes unwelcome) attention to yourself. It's a HUGE decision, but it should be MY decision, not the government's.





    USMC91E6 wrote:
    amen brother

    I second that!

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    lawmandhg wrote: I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    I wouldn't be opposed to the government offering a free proficiency class if I desired to take one, and given the cost, would probably do so to have my new weapon properly/fully demonstrated to me.

    As has been pointed out, criminals don't OC. And since law-abiding citizens must pass a background to purchase the gun, what good would a second background check be?

    Infringement comes in many forms. For example, the cost for a concealed weapons permit (between the class, ammo, application fee, etc) can be restrictive to some. Between all those requirements, it cost me $250 or more out of pocket. If that's not infringement, let's see them triple the cost or more and see if you still feel that way....to that end, how would I demonstrate proficiency with my firearm to the government?



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    i will bet money that if the state legislature of Maryland looked at the crime satistics of states that issue CWP (whether they are open carry states or strictly Concealed Carry states) that the percentage of crime is substancially down compared to states that do not issue CWP's to regular (and usually responsible) citizens

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    i forgot to add that i will be traveling to maryland but all but one state that i will be passing through (GA,SC,NC,VA) the one state that is not open carry and does not accept my FL CCP is South Carolina....BUT SC does allow for a weapon to be in the vehicle however it must be in the glove box



    ill be in VA for a couple days visiting a friend, and i fully intend on OCing during my stay.

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    BobCav wrote:
    lawmanhdg wrote:
    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    Welcome to OCDO! Hope to see more of you here.

    While I understand you point of view, what you describe is still a form of government control (aka infringement)and criminals don't OC.

    Most OC'ers train with their weapons as much and sometimes more than your average street LEO. OC'ing is a very serious decision and not one made lightly. If you carry a gun to defend yourself, you had BETTER know how to use it (your own life may depend on it). I've never met anyone that OC'ed that wasn't proficient. It's just not something you decide one day do to be COOL, as it can draw (sometimes unwelcome) attention to yourself. It's a HUGE decision, but it should be MY decision, not the government's.





    BobCav, when I start to believe that you are Awesome...you just keep on rasing the bar.

    AMEN.

    ( I bow in a "I am NOT worthy" fashion.)



    TJ

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    You are only partially correct...

    YES... people in VA do have to have a background check done; currently, every 5 years. If you fail the check... no Carry permit for you.

    YES... we do have to have classroom training. If you don't, no Carry permit for you.

    NO... we don't have to get range training by law, but it's STRONGLY suggested.. for what that's worth. But if you are an upstading citizen, you will take the training and practice your skills.

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    SonicBuffalo wrote:
    You are only partially correct...

    YES... people in VA do have to have a background check done; currently, every 5 years. If you fail the check... no Carry permit for you.

    YES... we do have to have classroom training. If you don't, no Carry permit for you.

    NO... we don't have to get range training by law, but it's STRONGLY suggested.. for what that's worth. But if you are an upstading citizen, you will take the training and practice your skills.
    thats somewhat odd....i would imagine range training would me mandatory in most states.....guess i was wrong



    Florida you have to have classroom and range training

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    SonicBuffalo wrote:
    You are only partially correct...

    YES... people in VA do have to have a background check done; currently, every 5 years. If you fail the check... no Carry permit for you.

    YES... we do have to have classroom training. If you don't, no Carry permit for you.

    NO... we don't have to get range training by law, but it's STRONGLY suggested.. for what that's worth. But if you are an upstading citizen, you will take the training and practice your skills.
    You are correct but, that is only if you are going to carry concealed. You don't need a permit or training or back ground check to open carry in the great state of Virginia.:celebrate

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    BobCav wrote:
    lawmanhdg wrote:
    Being a police officer here in MD, I always concealed carry. I only open-carry, obviously, when on duty (plainclothes detail, not as much).



    I personally have no problem with folks open-carrying, as long as they have passed backgrounds and can proficiently use said weapon.
    Welcome to OCDO! Hope to see more of you here.

    While I understand you point of view, what you describe is still a form of government control (aka infringement)and criminals don't OC.

    Most OC'ers train with their weapons as much and sometimes more than your average street LEO. OC'ing is a very serious decision and not one made lightly. If you carry a gun to defend yourself, you had BETTER know how to use it (your own life may depend on it). I've never met anyone that OC'ed that wasn't proficient. It's just not something you decide one day do to be COOL, as it can draw (sometimes unwelcome) attention to yourself. It's a HUGE decision, but it should be MY decision, not the government's.
    Ihave to say that I agree with you on that you better know what your doing if your are going to Open Carry... I live inMD andI haveinstructed police officerson shooting after they have failed quals. I mean its a glock 22 it dosent get much easier then that... Just my .02 I can only wish that one daywe geta few people that will pass laws here that correctthe problem. Baltimore City officers get 200 rounds a year to shoot I put that through my glock or more every week most times Iguess I just dont understand




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    200 rounds a year? man I go through about 200 rounds every visit to the range which is atleast once a month, and I'm just a standard citizen supporting the NRA to remedy MD gun laws.

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    kohburn wrote:
    200 rounds a year? man I go through about 200 rounds every visit to the range which is atleast once a month, and I'm just a standard citizen supporting the NRA to remedy MD gun laws.
    Thats what I mean, the officers that have to put their ass on the line get like 200 rounds a year from the PD like BPD that just crazy dangrous I mean these guy need to be shooting more...Just like I thinkas an instructor they should have a hell of alot more Control and restrainttraining I mean its not all the time that you will have to shoot or even pull your weapon as an LEO but you do have to put cuffs on people alot so there should be training in the handson areas... the taser isnt the answer for every thing.. again just my .02

    Idont know if there are alot of LEO's hereBut I do teach a Edge weapons Responce Class that is Free to LEO's andOthers ..... Im in the Baltimore MetroAreashoot me a P/M if anyone wants details.... Thanks

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