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Thread: Does anyone in TN want to sue to quash the illegal TN SSN requirement for CHPs?

  1. #1
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    Contact me if you are a TN resident who wants to be a Plaintiff on this - Mike at OpenCarry.org

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    My SSN is not on my permmit.....it is an option just as it is on the driver license.

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    steamnsteel wrote:
    My SSN is not on my permmit.....it is an option just as it is on the driver license.
    Not the point - it is illegal under Section 7 of the Federal Privacy Act for TN to even ask you for your SSN to apply for a CHP unless they first warn you it is not required.

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    Are you a lawyer, and are you sure?

    If you are, I might be willing.
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    SomeKid wrote:
    are you sure?
    See Stollenwerk v. Miller (E.D. Pa. 2006), avalable at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf.

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    Mike wrote:
    SomeKid wrote:
    are you sure?
    See Stollenwerk v. Miller (E.D. Pa. 2006), avalable at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf.
    OK, that answers the sure part. Now, got a lawyer who will do this without charging me?
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    SomeKid wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    SomeKid wrote:
    are you sure?
    See Stollenwerk v. Miller (E.D. Pa. 2006), avalable at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf.
    OK, that answers the sure part. Now, got a lawyer who will do this without charging me?
    That's possible if a foundation or group can front the costs and part of the fees; under federal civil rights actions, if the suit prevails, the attonrey can get full fees paid by the state of Tennessee. But come on guys, you should be willing to front some money for the cause! A few Plaintiffs each contrinuting a couple of thousnad dollars ca get this thing rolling right now.

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    Mike wrote:
    SomeKid wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    SomeKid wrote:
    are you sure?
    See Stollenwerk v. Miller (E.D. Pa. 2006), avalable at http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documen...s/06D0225P.pdf.
    OK, that answers the sure part. Now, got a lawyer who will do this without charging me?
    That's possible if a foundation or group can front the costs and part of the fees; under federal civil rights actions, if the suit prevails, the attonrey can get full fees paid by the state of Tennessee. But come on guys, you should be willing to front some money for the cause! A few Plaintiffs each contrinuting a couple of thousnad dollars ca get this thing rolling right now.
    Easy for you to say. I am still in college. I have done what I can for the RKBA, mainly with the TFA by directing the local chapter. I had to give it up when my grades started getting hurt from the lost study time. If someone needs a name to put on the paperwork, I can help. If someone needs a moneybag, I cannot.
    Life Member: Tennessee Firearms Association, GOA, NRA.
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    Mike,

    We just went through this in Georgia. Successfully I might add. (http://georgiacarry.com/camp/)

    Since I'm not a lawyer, could a TN resident cite the above case to the TN AG to force a 'top down' soloution and avoid the expenes?

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    Wiley wrote:
    Mike,

    We just went through this in Georgia. Successfully I might add. (http://georgiacarry.com/camp/)

    Since I'm not a lawyer, could a TN resident cite the above case to the TN AG to force a 'top down' soloution and avoid the expenes?
    That was tried a few years ago - TN AG said no for SSNs to buy guns, but yes for CHPs b/c he said CHPs in TN are "recreation licenses," thus excepted by federal law under 42 USC 666 to be required! This opinion in online and easy to find.

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    Mike wrote:
    That was tried a few years ago - TN AG said no for SSNs to buy guns, but yes for CHPs b/c he said CHPs in TN are "recreation licenses," thus excepted by federal law under 42 USC 666 to be required! This opinion in online and easy to find.
    http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn....01/OP/OP23.pdf

    http://www.attorneygeneral.state.tn....002/OP/OP3.pdf
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    The TN AG only references7(b) of the Privacy act [Pg. 3, last paragraph and footnotes 6 and 7] in his opinion 02-003.

    The Georgia case http://www.georgiacarry.com/camp/Ele...uitOpinion.pdfwent to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals (from U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia) and specifialy references 7(a)(1) and 7(c).

    What I see in the AG opinion is that he cherry picked sections of the TN Code, USCode and the Privacy Act. It is my understanding that all requirements and warnings (7(a), 7(b) and 7(c)) must be provided to the applicant. Now, an applicant for a GA hunting or fishing license must provide their SSN but, the proper warnings are given.

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    Wiley wrote:
    The TN AG only references7(b) of the Privacy act [Pg. 3, last paragraph and footnotes 6 and 7] in his opinion 02-003.

    The Georgia case http://www.georgiacarry.com/camp/Ele...uitOpinion.pdfwent to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals (from U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia) and specifialy references 7(a)(1) and 7(c).

    What I see in the AG opinion is that he cherry picked sections of the TN Code, USCode and the Privacy Act. It is my understanding that all requirements and warnings (7(a), 7(b) and 7(c)) must be provided to the applicant. Now, an applicant for a GA hunting or fishing license must provide their SSN but, the proper warnings are given.
    I don't follow you - there is no section 7(c).

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    Sorry Mike. I had a brain fart.

    This is what I was thinking of:
    DISCLOSURE OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER
    Section 7 of Pub. L. 93-579 provided that:
    (a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or localgovernment agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, orprivilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal todisclose his social security account number.
    (2) the (The) provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsectionshall not apply with respect to -
    (A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
    (B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal,State, or local agency maintaining a system of records inexistence and operating before January 1, 1975, if suchdisclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted priorto such date to verify the identity of an individual.


    (b) Any Federal, State, or local government agency whichrequests an individual to disclose his social security accountnumber shall inform that individual whether that disclosure ismandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority suchnumber is solicited, and what uses will be made of it.

    What I was hoping to do was give an idea where a 'plaintif' was not required, that the change could be handled on a more adminstrative level.

    To easy, huh?

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    Also Tennessee Code 39-17-1351 (v) states:
    (v) Any permit issued pursuant to this section shall be deemed a “license” within the meaning of title 36, chapter 5, part 7, dealing with the enforcement of child support obligations through license denial and revocation.
    So, a carry permit is a 'license' under state definition and the privacy actwould not apply. So much for that angle.



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    Wiley wrote:
    Also Tennessee Code 39-17-1351 (v) states:
    (v) Any permit issued pursuant to this section shall be deemed a “license” within the meaning of title 36, chapter 5, part 7, dealing with the enforcement of child support obligations through license denial and revocation.
    So, a carry permit is a 'license' under state definition and the privacy actwould not apply. So much for that angle.

    The key is "recreational" license, per exception to Section 7 at 42 USC 666.


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