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Thread: Asked to cover-up in a restaurant?

  1. #1
    Regular Member HKshooter's Avatar
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    VA requires open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol for on premmise consumption. How many people have been asked "Hey, can you cover that thing up" or "Hey, your gun is sticking out"?

    I"m especially interested in anyone asked by a manager that was not well educated on VA law.

    Purpose here is to see if managers prefer concealed carry to cut back on concerned patrons.



  2. #2
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    I have open carried literally acouple hundred times in restaurants in VA. Literally.

    I have been asked exactly once to remove the gun or leave. Exactly once. (This exactly once is also the only time I have ever been asked to remove the gun or myself from any business.)*

    Separate from that exactly once, I have encountered exactly twowaitstaff whospoke about feeling nervouswith my OC. Exactly two.One of them, a busboy,gave melooks of concern mixed with antagonism at various points during my visit. The other served me again ona fewvisits after,saying nothing.

    *Citizen's Tips for Successful OC Ambassadorship:

    • Maintain an air of confidence.
    • Bea little cheerful; keep a lighthearted expression.
    • Keep a friendly smile chambered, and several more ontop of the stack.
    • Dress neatly; maintain grooming.
    • Condition Yellow works to detect more than criminal trouble.
    • Be ready with several practiced phrases to handle inquiries.
    • Be outgoing.Ask friendly questions of the staff that show an interest in them as a person, beyond their function.
    • Always carry a voice-recorder.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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  3. #3
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    Just thought I'd provide a link to my experience at Outback Steakhouse in Fairfax City.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=149148

  4. #4
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    HKshooter wrote:
    VA requires open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol for on premmise consumption. How many people have been asked "Hey, can you cover that thing up" or "Hey, your gun is sticking out"?

    I"m especially interested in anyone asked by a manager that was not well educated on VA law.

    Purpose here is to see if managers prefer concealed carry to cut back on concerned patrons.

    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    "How many people have been asked..."

    Never. Anywhere.

  6. #6
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    I have open carried literally acouple hundred times in restaurants in VA. Literally.

    I have been asked exactly once to remove the gun or leave. Exactly once. (This exactly once is also the only time I have ever been asked to remove the gun or myself from any business.)*

    Separate from that exactly once, I have encountered exactly twowaitstaff whospoke about feeling nervouswith my OC. Exactly two.One of them, a busboy,gave melooks of concern mixed with antagonism at various points during my visit. The other served me again ona fewvisits after,saying nothing.

    *Citizen's Tips for Successful OC Ambassadorship:
    • Maintain an air of confidence.
    • Bea little cheerful; keep a lighthearted expression.
    • Keep a friendly smile chambered, and several more ontop of the stack.
    • Dress neatly; maintain grooming.
    • Condition Yellow works to detect more than criminal trouble.
    • Be ready with several practiced phrases to handle inquiries.
    • Be outgoing.Ask friendly questions of the staff that show an interest in them as a person, beyond their function.
    • Always carry a voice-recorder.
    Umm.... once? maybe twice?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    In about 3 years of regular OC, never. I had a security guard get snippy with me outside a restaurant, but have had no problems with any restaurant staff.

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    I actually was pulled aside by the manager's of Champps in Reston (yes, THE Champps restaurant that had an LE ordeal with oc'ers a few years back) about a month ago.

    Apparently, since I was open carrying, some patron complained so the managers pulled me aside and asked if I was LE, I said "no", then asked if I could just conceal it. After explaining the stoopid VA laws regarding such activity, they said "ok" and I sat down and had my meal.

    The managers were polite and cooperative. And one of them actually told me he had submitted his CHP paperwork with the county! Which begs to ask why he didn't understand that I couldn't conceal in the first place, but whatever.

  9. #9
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    Xeni wrote:
    HKshooter wrote:
    VA requires open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol for on premmise consumption. How many people have been asked "Hey, can you cover that thing up" or "Hey, your gun is sticking out"?

    I"m especially interested in anyone asked by a manager that was not well educated on VA law.

    Purpose here is to see if managers prefer concealed carry to cut back on concerned patrons.

    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?
    Nope. The law prohibits carrying concealed weapons in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption. I believe the only exception is the actual proprietor. No citation, so I'm risking a penalty flag, I know.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    HKshooter wrote:
    VA requires open carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol for on premmise consumption. How many people have been asked "Hey, can you cover that thing up" or "Hey, your gun is sticking out"?

    I"m especially interested in anyone asked by a manager that was not well educated on VA law.

    Purpose here is to see if managers prefer concealed carry to cut back on concerned patrons.

    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?
    Nope. The law prohibits carrying concealed weapons in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption. I believe the only exception is the actual proprietor. No citation, so I'm risking a penalty flag, I know.
    Fail:P employees and LEOs can too.

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for picking up my slack.

  12. #12
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    Xeni wrote:
    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?


    excellent question?



    could this be a way around the resturant loophole?

  13. #13
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    I do not live in Virginia, but I have never been asked to cover up. I have had people comment that they were glad that I was carrying. One lady told me that she wished that her husband would carry.

    Sure I get my share of looks , but mostly I get nothing. It's like they see but don't see.

    Tarzan

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    I believe the reason he asked the question is for when the RB is repealed. He wants to know if anyone has come across a restaurant manager requesting that a customer cc vice oc as a means of gauging their general comfort level during your dining experience. After the repeal you will have a choice. He would like to make his choice based on a consensus of eatery managers, either way.

    To the original poster: After the repeal, just OC. If the manager requests cc, then you can legally comply if you wish to still dine there.



  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    hawgasm wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?


    excellent question?



    could this be a way around the resturant loophole?
    Yeah I was wondering this myself, could we be, for example, an "event sponsor" if the owner/manager said so? The event, of course being , our lunch or dinner



  16. #16
    Regular Member HKshooter's Avatar
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    Nelson_Muntz wrote:
    I believe the reason he asked the question is for when the RB is repealed. He wants to know if anyone has come across a restaurant manager requesting that a customer cc vice oc as a means of gauging their general comfort level during your dining experience. After the repeal you will have a choice. He would like to make his choice based on a consensus of eatery managers, either way.

    To the original poster: After the repeal, just OC. If the manager requests cc, then you can legally comply if you wish to still dine there.
    Close. Reason for post was to see how many managers would prefer CC, and
    use that as leverage to help push the RB repeal.

  17. #17
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    A year ago at Tony's in Manassas, one of the first responding officers instructed us to cover our weapons, if I recall correctly. We didn't. Moments later, other responding Manassas police officers apparently browbeat the owner into asking us to leave. We did.

    In the spring and summer of 2000, I took some "advanced" handgun classes that spanned a couple of weekends. One of my fellow students was a NOVA police officer with whom several of us were already acquainted. When we went out to lunch, he instructed us to carry concealed in the restaurant.

    Those are the only two times I can recall being asked or instructed to cover in a restaurant.

  18. #18
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    markand wrote:
    A year ago at Tony's in Manassas, one of the first responding officers instructed us to cover our weapons, if I recall correctly. We didn't. Moments later, other responding Manassas police officers apparently browbeat the owner into asking us to leave. We did.

    In the spring and summer of 2000, I took some "advanced" handgun classes that spanned a couple of weekends. One of my fellow students was a NOVA police officer with whom several of us were already acquainted. When we went out to lunch, he instructed us to carry concealed in the restaurant.

    Those are the only two times I can recall being asked or instructed to cover in a restaurant.
    I hope you explained to him that's a no-no. He probably meant well, but he could get your fellow students into trouble someday with that advice.

  19. #19
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    Xeni wrote:
    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?
    The owner or his agent cannot change the law - restaurants are off limits for concealed carry. The fact that it is private property is irrelevant - remember,it is illegal to conceal carry on private property without a permit except for limited exceptions - the owner cannot change that even for himself on his own property!!



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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?
    The owner or his agent cannot change the law - restaurants are off limits for concealed carry. The fact that it is private property is irrelevant - remember,it is illegal to conceal carry on private property without a permit except for limited exceptions - the owner cannot change that even for himself on his own property!!

    Huh?

    From § 18.2-308.:B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.
    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
    1. Any person while in his own place of business;

    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Xeni wrote:
    In such an instance, would you be legal in concealing regardless of if you had a permit or not since your on private property and have the permission of the owner?
    The owner or his agent cannot change the law - restaurants are off limits for concealed carry (only if they sell alcohol). The fact that it is private property is irrelevant - remember,it is illegal to conceal carry on private property without a permit except for limited exceptions - the owner cannot change that even for himself on his own property!!

    Huh?

    From § 18.2-308.:B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.
    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
    1. Any person while in his own place of business;
    Long day at the corral Mike?
    Yata hey
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  22. #22
    Regular Member HKshooter's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrot
    Huh?

    From § 18.2-308.:B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.
    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
    1. Any person while in his own place of business;
    And from J3:
    "nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit."

    So all I need to do is get each manager to hire me as a food taster and I'm covered!


  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    markand wrote:
    A year ago at Tony's in Manassas, one of the first responding officers instructed us to cover our weapons, if I recall correctly. We didn't. Moments later, other responding Manassas police officers apparently browbeat the owner into asking us to leave. We did.

    In the spring and summer of 2000, I took some "advanced" handgun classes that spanned a couple of weekends. One of my fellow students was a NOVA police officer with whom several of us were already acquainted. When we went out to lunch, he instructed us to carry concealed in the restaurant.

    Those are the only two times I can recall being asked or instructed to cover in a restaurant.
    I hope you explained to him that's a no-no. He probably meant well, but he could get your fellow students into trouble someday with that advice.
    Also there is this. I don't think I am mistaken about this but if an LEO instructs you to conceal your weapon in an ABC-ON establishment, he can be arrested for being an accessory after the fact since it was his illegal instruction that caused an illegal act.


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  24. #24
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    I've been lucky. Never been asked to cover up, never been asked to leave. Though by most standards I'm still "new" to OC'ing as it's been less than a year since I started.

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I don't think I am mistaken about this but if an LEO instructs you to conceal your weapon in an ABC-ON establishment, he can be arrested for being an accessory after the fact since it was his illegal instruction that caused an illegal act.
    'Accessory after the fact'? Not a term much favored in law now, though once in common law. The cop is more properly characterized in law as accomplice and instigator since the actor held no intention to break the law until induced by the cop.

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