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OC in establishment serving alcohol

V

v8shoguy

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So over the weekend I went to the Upper Valley Mall in Springfield, OH to do some shopping with my wife. I OC'd in a shoulder holster. We went there over Fairfield Commons and Dayton Mall due to their CPZ policies.

We decided that we were hungry, so we went into a place called "New York Pizza." I ordered a calzone. The manager (I'm assuming) asked if we wanted anything to drink, either Coke products or Bud Light, etc. Panic. My wife already had her credit card out, I told the guy we wanted Sprite then leaned over to my wife and told her I had to leave that store pronto, we couldn't wait in there for our food. I had her go back in for the food about 10 mins later.

Here's the questions. Was a law broken? Could a LEO cart me off to jail and charge me with a felony for this?

I didn't KNOWINGLY carry into an establishment that served alcohol. There was no sign posted that said "BEER HERE, DON'T CARRY" or anything like that. I find this alot in Ohio, and it bothers the heck out of me. I've carried unknowingly into establishments like Qdoba, only to find out later that they served alcohol.

I know in KY liquor license numbers are posted on the front windows of stores (retail included). Fairly hard to miss. The only thing I've ever seen in OH (other than GB signs on certain establishments) are the "If you are carrying a firearm here, you may be commiting a felony" and they aren't always posted conspicuously. Krogers in Oxford is posted about ankle-high on the back wall of their customer service counter, and the only reason I noticed it was because I had to return something and the lady took a while. Qdoba in Oxford has theirs posted behind the counter as well, but on the side wall so you've already wandered into trouble by the time you see it.

Is there anything that protects someone that wanders into a questionable situation like this?
 
L

Legba

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Sounds like a 5th-degree felony to me, per this link: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.121. It is not an essential element of the crime that one knowingly carry in such an establishment, the mere possession of a handgun constitutes an offense, apart from the listed exceptions.

-ljp
 
V

v8shoguy

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That is so stupid. There's nothing that tells me when a place like this serves alcohol on the outside. If there's a law that says I can't carry there, shouldn't there also be a law that requires they post?

If not a law, would it be a good idea for me to speak with management to see if they could post something out of the kindness of their hearts so that their customers don't get snatched up for unknowingly commiting a felony? Kinda like a "Sorry, no carry here, not our choice" sign they could hang?
 
L

Legba

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Well, the state Liquor Control people are supposed to supply signage to retailers when they get their on-site consumption (D-class) license approved. The screwy thing about the Ohio booze/guns laws is that a Sunday takeout-only license is technically a subcategory of D-class license, so as the law is written, you can't carry in a place that sells take-out on Sundays either. The intent was that people not be armed in bars, but this is how it is at present.

-ljp
 
J

JSK333

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Yeah, it's crap. Write your State legislators and encourage them to repeal the law cited above.

As far as your defense... if you could prove that no liquor was being dispensed when you were in there, then the statute shouldn't apply ("...in which liquor is being dispensed..."). Or, if the Statecouldn't prove that it was being dispensed when you were there...

Also, the ORC elsewherespecifically excludes beer from the definition of "liquor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.01),so if all theyserved was beer, you should be OKregardless.
 
reefteach

reefteach

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v8shoguy wrote:
That is so stupid. There's nothing that tells me when a place like this serves alcohol on the outside. If there's a law that says I can't carry there, shouldn't there also be a law that requires they post?
Click to expand...


I propose the following sign at Class D entrances:

duffman3.gif


Duffman says, party defenseless.

OHHHH YEAHHHH.
 
J

JSK333

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FWIW, in Cincinnati, Music Hall has very small plastic sticker-signs stuck to the front doors. They note that because it is a liquor establishment, no firearms are allowed inside.

Of course, it was so small that I missed it when I went in once. When I first got there, I couldn't believe that it wasn't posted (figuring the "uppity" types wouldn't want evil black guns inside, LOL). Then I went inside and saw people getting drinks at a bar, and was thinking... "Uh, oops?" I was upset, like you, that it wasn't posted since a person might not assume they served liquor inside.

So, when I left, I checked the doors again, and that's when I saw the little sticker. While I was somewhat pacified that they had taken the time to put it there, it was still annoying that it was so small. I'm sure they just don't want to advertise anything about firearms, period, but realize people wouldn't necessarily expect alcohol inside so they put up a little token of a sign.
 
J

Joe Sixpack

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well it sounds like technically you broke the law, but you handled it well.. you did'nt do it intetionally and in your defense had no idea they served alcohol.. i think a judge would have reconized that but luckly it ended well.

IANAL but i think you did just fine.
 
B

BIG SHAFE

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JSK333 wrote:
Yeah, it's crap. Write your State legislators and encourage them to repeal the law cited above.

As far as your defense... if you could prove that no liquor was being dispensed when you were in there, then the statute shouldn't apply ("...in which liquor is being dispensed..."). Or, if the Statecouldn't prove that it was being dispensed when you were there...

Also, the ORC elsewherespecifically excludes beer from the definition of "liquor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.01),so if all theyserved was beer, you should be OKregardless.
Click to expand...
Yes. if they only sell beer (D-1 permit I think) than you are ok.
 
P

Pauly

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BIG SHAFE wrote:
JSK333 wrote:
Yeah, it's crap. Write your State legislators and encourage them to repeal the law cited above.

As far as your defense... if you could prove that no liquor was being dispensed when you were in there, then the statute shouldn't apply ("...in which liquor is being dispensed..."). Or, if the Statecouldn't prove that it was being dispensed when you were there...

Also, the ORC elsewherespecifically excludes beer from the definition of "liquor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.01),so if all theyserved was beer, you should be OKregardless.
Click to expand...
Yes. if they only sell beer (D-1 permit I think) than you are ok.
Click to expand...

So I could legally open carry to the local Chipotle as they sell beer and not liquor? What about concealed (with permit) to the same location? I wasn't aware of the 'beer only' law.
 
S

SWhetsel

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If its concealed then then you can carry anywhere, because whos going to know. (legally not true of course)

But man, thats a grey area all around. Contact a lawyer if you want to know for sure.
 
U

UTOC-45-44

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v8shoguy wrote:
So over the weekend I went to the Upper Valley Mall in Springfield, OH to do some shopping with my wife. I OC'd in a shoulder holster. We went there over Fairfield Commons and Dayton Mall due to their CPZ policies.

We decided that we were hungry, so we went into a place called "New York Pizza." I ordered a calzone. The manager (I'm assuming) asked if we wanted anything to drink, either Coke products or Bud Light, etc. Panic. My wife already had her credit card out, I told the guy we wanted Sprite then leaned over to my wife and told her I had to leave that store pronto, we couldn't wait in there for our food. I had her go back in for the food about 10 mins later.

Here's the questions. Was a law broken? Could a LEO cart me off to jail and charge me with a felony for this?

I didn't KNOWINGLY carry into an establishment that served alcohol. There was no sign posted that said "BEER HERE, DON'T CARRY" or anything like that. I find this alot in Ohio, and it bothers the heck out of me. I've carried unknowingly into establishments like Qdoba, only to find out later that they served alcohol.

I know in KY liquor license numbers are posted on the front windows of stores (retail included). Fairly hard to miss. The only thing I've ever seen in OH (other than GB signs on certain establishments) are the "If you are carrying a firearm here, you may be commiting a felony" and they aren't always posted conspicuously. Krogers in Oxford is posted about ankle-high on the back wall of their customer service counter, and the only reason I noticed it was because I had to return something and the lady took a while. Qdoba in Oxford has theirs posted behind the counter as well, but on the side wall so you've already wandered into trouble by the time you see it.

Is there anything that protects someone that wanders into a questionable situation like this?
Click to expand...

That's why I live in Utah and don't have to worry about that stuff:celebrate

TJ
 
B

BIG SHAFE

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Jun 14, 2007
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Pauly wrote:
BIG SHAFE wrote:
JSK333 wrote:
Yeah, it's crap. Write your State legislators and encourage them to repeal the law cited above.

As far as your defense... if you could prove that no liquor was being dispensed when you were in there, then the statute shouldn't apply ("...in which liquor is being dispensed..."). Or, if the Statecouldn't prove that it was being dispensed when you were there...

Also, the ORC elsewherespecifically excludes beer from the definition of "liquor" (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4301.01),so if all theyserved was beer, you should be OKregardless.
Click to expand...
Yes. if they only sell beer (D-1 permit I think) than you are ok.
Click to expand...

So I could legally open carry to the local Chipotle as they sell beer and not liquor? What about concealed (with permit) to the same location? I wasn't aware of the 'beer only' law.
Click to expand...
It has to be for beer only for concealed carry. I do not see anything disregarding open carry but IANAL and be weary if misinformed LEO who may arrest you irregardless.

Here you can find the information to back that: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=17812
 
P

Pauly

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Nov 24, 2007
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Ravenna, Ohio, USA
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Thanks for the link. Now I can sleep at night knowing I can still defend myself while I stuff my fat face with 22 oz. burritos
 
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