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Thread: I'm new here / Toledo, OH

  1. #1
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    Hello,

    After scouring the net for information on conceal carry laws and general education I found this site and started posting.

    I can't say that I would open carry but this site is very interesting. Based on everything I'm reading open carry when done right generally isn't a problem but it does appear to rock the boat and cause scenes.

    If I were a police officer and saw somebody open carrying that I didn't already know, I would probably want to have a conversation with them just to make sure they were of sound mind. I have a number of LEO friends.

    For example, I could imagine a mentally unstable person strapping and walking in plain view. If an LEO doesn't at least confirm the person is sound then they might not be doing their job. I know there has to be a law broken which is why I state I would have a casual friendly conversation.

    One of my friends who is a Sheriff said he would cite public display of firearm or inducing panic. Being I haven't researched OC yet, I'm not sure how much ground he would have to stand on. I know one thing is for sure, I'd rather not rock the boat and right now I'm just glad we can even carry firearms with how things have been in the recent years with rights being taken away one by one.

    I'm 30 and have thought about buying a handgun for years. I live in a great neighborhood with a Sheriff a few houses down and a Toledo Police officer a few houses down on my other side.

    Over a weekend in December we noticed all the screens on the first floor windows were pushed up. I don't know if it was kids playing around of if it was an attempted break-in. However, I was home the entire weekend which means this happened while at least 1 of us was home.

    This was my deciding factor in purchasing a Springfield XD-40. I spent about a month going to the shooting range and trying different guns, heavily leaning toward the Sig's. In the end I liked the XD-40 for the price as well as the 1911 style grip safety and USA trigger. I love the cambered indicator and firing pin indicator as well. I only have 150 rounds throught it but it fires great and I didn't have a single jam like some stories I read online.

    So I think I'll sit back and get to know you guys. My first impression is this is interesting but I also get a feeling of cockyness and a little arrogance with how some people I'll keep unnamed treat LEO's.

    I think it's because I've made it very far in my at my age by being nice and cooperative with people, unless they don't deserve it.

    I could change my opinions but I like to be honest.

    So, how many of you are from Toledo? I'd love to be out and about at the same location as you while you are OCing just so I can see what happens as well as step in and let people know the OC is legal in case there happens to be an incident. Knowing Carty, there could very well be an incident that makes the local news or daily paper!

    Other than that, great site. It's very educational and even though I'm in the back seat I'm glad you guys are exercising the right to OC!

    One thing I don't like about the CCW is that is has to stay hidden. My question is, what if somebody causes your jacket to move revealing the weapon?

    I don't entirely understand why the CCW law says the firearm must remain hidden if OC is legal.

    Thoughts? I'm also serious about witnessing somebody in Toledo OCing. (Reynolds/Glendale area)

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    I hope your LEO friends understand that absent reasonable articulable suspicion that crime is afoot, they have no power to detain and force open carriers to speak to them. At all.

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    I know what you are saying, which is why I've read so many people stating to keep a voice-recorder with you.

    A LEO's "unrecorded" word is more powerful than a citizens word when it comes to the legal system.

    For instance, some of my friends are State Troopers. They make drug busts all the time on the turn-pike. They told me how they decide to pull somebody over and it's pretty simple, their logic behind it. I'm not going to say what it is because I'm not one for giving drug runners advice on how to dodge a LEO.

    Anyway, they'll find a reason to pull somebody over, whether it be a license plate cover or telling them they were following to closely.

    This has happened to a friend of mine while I was with him. I even said after the fact "Routine drug stop officer?" She knew I was informed.

    Going back to when I was 19, I drove a barely street legal Trans Am. When I say barely street legal, it was more of a draw racing care. Boy did I get hassled! I had cops right my rear bumper so close I couldn't see their headlights. Finally I was pulled over because of my license plate frame. Turns out I knew the cop from the neighborhood I grew up in and we had a conversation.

    He told me some other cops radioed me in as a young kid with a sup'd up sports car and they wanted to keep an eye on me and get me for something. So he picked up my trail and tailed me for a while and then pulled me over just before I left his jurisdiction. Once he got to my window he recognized me. He's a cool cop. He told me the whole story and said they were just looking for somebody to hassel.

    He let me go and told me to tell my family hi. Said he always wondered how we were doing. I had moved out of the neighborhood when I was 13 and we knew him well.

    So, point is, LEO's can probably find something to get a person on if they don't like the person. Hence, being nice. If I'm a jerk to a LEO and I don't do anything wrong, he WILL remember me and he WILL nail me if he ever has the chance.

    I don't know about you, but I like to live comfortable and not have to make sure my stops at stop signs are 3 seconds or that I always use my flashers for a lane change.

    As for me trying OC, probably not. I'd instantly be suspended from work if I had any pending charges or felonies. A lot of the CCW guys I know think even displaying a holster is "trying to prove" something.

    I'm being open minded here. So far my take is "rough crowd". Thanks for the welcome.

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    First off, welcome to OCDO! It's great to have another contributor from Ohio. I have a couple of comments to make about your post.

    sehiser wrote:
    Hello,

    After scouring the net for information on conceal carry laws and general education I found this site and started posting.

    I can't say that I would open carry but this site is very interesting. Based on everything I'm reading open carry when done right generally isn't a problem but it does appear to rock the boat and cause scenes.
    This is the exception rather than the rule. I've OCed for quite awhile now, and never had any trouble with law enforcement.
    If I were a police officer and saw somebody open carrying that I didn't already know, I would probably want to have a conversation with them just to make sure they were of sound mind. I have a number of LEO friends.
    LEOs are not allowedto stop someone just because they are carrying a firearm. That would be a Terry stop in my opinion.
    For example, I could imagine a mentally unstable person strapping and walking in plain view. If an LEO doesn't at least confirm the person is sound then they might not be doing their job. I know there has to be a law broken which is why I state I would have a casual friendly conversation.

    One of my friends who is a Sheriff said he would cite public display of firearm or inducing panic.
    With all due respect to your friend, he is wrong. OC is not prohibited anywhere in Ohio law, so that means it is legal. Both those charges are probably local ordinances which are unless now (thankfully!) because of HB 347.
    Being I haven't researched OC yet, I'm not sure how much ground he would have to stand on. I know one thing is for sure, I'd rather not rock the boat and right now I'm just glad we can even carry firearms with how things have been in the recent years with rights being taken away one by one.

    I'm 30 and have thought about buying a handgun for years. I live in a great neighborhood with a Sheriff a few houses down and a Toledo Police officer a few houses down on my other side.
    Having a LEO down the street is not going to stop the criminal if he's in your house with a gun. Please buy that handgun and don't depend on law enforcement to be able to get there in time.
    Over a weekend in December we noticed all the screens on the first floor windows were pushed up. I don't know if it was kids playing around of if it was an attempted break-in. However, I was home the entire weekend which means this happened while at least 1 of us was home.

    This was my deciding factor in purchasing a Springfield XD-40. I spent about a month going to the shooting range and trying different guns, heavily leaning toward the Sig's. In the end I liked the XD-40 for the price as well as the 1911 style grip safety and USA trigger. I love the cambered indicator and firing pin indicator as well. I only have 150 rounds throught it but it fires great and I didn't have a single jam like some stories I read online.

    So I think I'll sit back and get to know you guys. My first impression is this is interesting but I also get a feeling of cockyness and a little arrogance with how some people I'll keep unnamed treat LEO's.
    That is a fair statement. There are some members that don't really care for law enforcement. But in fairness to them, they usually have a good reason for not liking their local LEOs. But it's no excuse to have a problem with all law enforcement. There are good and bad LEOs, just like any other profession.

    I think it's because I've made it very far in my at my age by being nice and cooperative with people, unless they don't deserve it.

    I could change my opinions but I like to be honest.

    So, how many of you are from Toledo? I'd love to be out and about at the same location as you while you are OCing just so I can see what happens as well as step in and let people know the OC is legal in case there happens to be an incident. Knowing Carty, there could very well be an incident that makes the local news or daily paper!

    Other than that, great site. It's very educational and even though I'm in the back seat I'm glad you guys are exercising the right to OC!

    One thing I don't like about the CCW is that is has to stay hidden. My question is, what if somebody causes your jacket to move revealing the weapon?

    I don't entirely understand why the CCW law says the firearm must remain hidden if OC is legal.
    This is news to me. Can you site the section of the ORC, or is this something other people have told you? I know quite a few people in this state who have CCWs, and they transition between OC and CC all the time.
    Thoughts? I'm also serious about witnessing somebody in Toledo OCing. (Reynolds/Glendale area)
    Once again, welcome to this site. I hope to hear you're OCing soon!

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    Welcome to the forums!

    I see what you are saying and agree with most of what you have to say. You just have to remember that its hard to have a positive outlook on LEO's when people have been screwed over by one of the "rotten apples".

    I myself am pursuing a career in Law Enforcement, and have been a police officer in the military for 4 plus years. I can't tell you how MANY times I have been hanging out with some infantry guys and after I tell them that I'm an MP don't believe me. Most of them get hassled by an 18 year old with a gun, fresh out boot camp, your rank doesn't beat my authority, kid. Hence they have a bad taste in there mouth for MP's, and I can't blame them. I have had a lot of negative instances with LEO's that make me aware of the ignorance some of them have.

    HOWEVER, I also as you stated, am one not to cause waves, and therefore don't have issues most of the time. I have also had PLENTY of great experiences with LEO's.

    Anyway, I've open carried a few times around Akron, OH area. Hasn’t been an issue for me, besides meeting people that just aren’t informed of the law. This includes some local LEO's, but then again, they don't know EVERY law. I would think that it is ridiculous to say they should, but when they don’t know, they should definitely not assume. ( you know what they say, assume = make a ass out of you and me ) I received my CCW about a month ago or less and carry EVERYWHERE.

    Well, I hope that you enjoy reading about everyone’s experiences as I do. Don't be to fast to judge anyone here as wanting to cause waves, or to be anti-LEO. I've read posts from a few guys that sound like they ARE interested in making waves and posts from people that hate LEO's. Just remember, that everyone has a reason for there beliefs. I look at open carry as a right that should be exercised to we don't loose it. I don’t really think its smart to carry an M4 around on your back to do so, but then again why not. ( My personal opinion is that we need the second amendment to protect ourselves, from others and also from our own government. Our fore fathers wrote it in so that we could rise against a corrupt government if need be, as they did against England. )

    I hope this whole thing doesn’t sound like I'm bad mouthing anyone, just how I view it all. Everything else aside, congrats on becoming an informed citizen and taking interest in you rights and the rights of other Americans.

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    Touche! I have been reading so much CCW stuff that I must have blurred the lines with another state? I watched a number of informational video's on youtube as well as a number of CCW web sites. I even know I read on some conceal clothing sites they talked about making sure your firearm is not visible. Especially preventing the outline of the gun.

    Well that's pretty cool! Is there any pending legislation or considerationg to put a law on the books on OC or does 9.68 take care of that in a single lick?

    Based on this story...
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/modul...le&sid=873

    I'll wait until all LEO's are fully educated.

    I understand the point on not being happy with LEO's. I can't say there's never been a time I wasn't happy with one at a certain point. There are some blow hards out there.

    While I'm typing, I believe I was reading about some pending changes to the current CCW laws that may take place next month?

    Would it be better for me to wait on my CCW until after these laws? I think they were going to remove the requirement to notify a LEO as well as eliminate the finger printing? I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking.

    Thanks.

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    sehiser wrote:
    Touche! I have been reading so much CCW stuff that I must have blurred the lines with another state? I watched a number of informational video's on youtube as well as a number of CCW web sites. I even know I read on some conceal clothing sites they talked about making sure your firearm is not visible. Especially preventing the outline of the gun.
    It's very easy to do! I've done that before as well! I believe Florida is one of those states you're talking about.
    Well that's pretty cool! Is there any pending legislation or considerationg to put a law on the books on OC or does 9.68 take care of that in a single lick?
    There is no legislation pending that I know of, and I think that's a good think. Usually when politicians start writing more laws, it just means trouble.

    Based on this story...
    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/modul...le&sid=873

    I'll wait until all LEO's are fully educated.
    Not to be too pesimistic, but that's never going to happen. Don't let a LEO's ignorance of the law stop you from OCing.
    I understand the point on not being happy with LEO's. I can't say there's never been a time I wasn't happy with one at a certain point. There are some blow hards out there.

    While I'm typing, I believe I was reading about some pending changes to the current CCW laws that may take place next month?

    Would it be better for me to wait on my CCW until after these laws? I think they were going to remove the requirement to notify a LEO as well as eliminate the finger printing? I could be wrong, that's why I'm asking.
    I haven't heard anything about this. But I haven't been keeping up with things for the past month, so it could be true, but I doubt it. I can't see the duty to inform a LEO during a traffic stop going away any time soon, if ever.

    Thanks.

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    Thanks SWHetsel.

    I've already changed my opinion just on a couple people after reading more of what they had to say.

    Beign a conservative, I don't have a problem holding people to standards (judging) to an extent or voicing it for that matter. That's one reason I'm glad to be a conservative. I can say what I think!

    I'll definitely CCW when possible. I'll likely not rock the boat with the OC, I'd rather get along with everybody and go with the flow as long as it does not HURT our rights.

    I consider myself a transistional conversationalist. Meaning that I do not appear offensive of intimidating. Imagine an ignorant person who is scared of guns. Who would they be more likely to talk to? A mean looking person in a camo t-shirt with an AR-15 screen printed on the front or a smiling guy in a suit?

    I'm the smiling guy in the suit. So if I can use *who I am* to educate other people, I'll do it! I've already had plenty of conversations about guns with people who are scared of them. Some of these people who never have allowed themselves to be in a position to talk to a person in a firearm t-shirt.

    Know what I mean? It's easier to explain something to a person who is affraid of it if they like you. I suppose that's how I should have said it.

    I know my girlfriend would be affraid of a stranger in a gun shirt who had a gun on his hip. So I think I'll call my style of transistioning people to understanding "The girlfriend approach". haha.

    I was able to make my girlfriend comfortable with guns by buying an Airsoft gun to teach her basic handling and safety as well as a CO2 handgun.

    The airsoft gun is surprisingly realistic in form and function! What a GREAT training tool that has no intimidation to it!

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    Hey dngreer,

    Another thing on the OCing. Like I had mentioned, I'd get suspended and/or lose my career if I was in any kind of legal trouble even if in the end I was cleared.

    I have a corporate position with a Fortune 100 company. (The executives I work with ALL..and I mean ALL have loads of firearms! My VP was a marine and is also a HP rifle sharp shooter) I'm not trying to brag, but it was a LOT of work to get where I am and I'm a specialist so if something happened, there's not much that can replace what I do so I'd take a large pay cut. There is nothing else in Toledo that even pays me half of what I make right now. I really do have a sweet gig and feel lucky for it every day.

    It was a LOT of work to get here and just like I stay professional in my personal life I'll likely not "actively" OC. I may transistion or be less concerned if somebody is aware I'm carrying than I would have been before finding this site.

    If I say the wrong thing to somebody outside work and they find out what I do, it can have negative effects. I'm okay with that, I tend to be socially conservative anyway.

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    I like the airsoft idea, I'm in the process of trying to explain the benefits of carrying to my mother. She works in a REALLY bad part of Cleveland and I would love to see her start carrying a .38 special in her purse. She looks at it like, she isn't afraid now, so why should she carry. She looks at it like anyone that carries is "afraid" and insecure. She won't allow me to carry in her house even! (called me after I left one night from visiting home and asked me not to bring the gun into her home.) It's hard to explain to people in my opinion on why I carry, butI try.

    It's sort of like a cell phone. I carry because it’s convenient, it doesn't cost much, and I would sure as hell rather not need my pistol, than the one time I DO, and not have it.

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    Yep, my home owners policy covers lots of things I'll probably NEVER need. Like a lightning strike.

    So if I can own and carry a handgun that cost me (XD-40) $580 and $25 in Federal Hydrashok that COULD save my life and/or many others. Heck, that's money well spent!

    I think if you went up to somebody and asked them "For $300, if I could give you the power to stop a person with a gun who was going to kill you or somebody else, would you take that power?"

    I bet most people would say yes. But then when you tell them for $300 they can get a keltec and rounds that'd be turned off.

    Another thing I like is disassembling a gun. When I took my XD apart and showed my girlfriend the gun is essentially a 3 inch metal tube, it looks a lot less intimidating. The rest is just a handle and some mechanisms.

    Then I like to tell people rifles are 300% more powerful than a handgun yet people aren't as scared of a rifle because it's bigger. Maybe because it takes more effort to point.

    I was reading about stopping power of handguns earlier. This article talked about death from firearms. 80% of people who are shot do not die from their injuries. That's an interesting statistic as well.

    It could be a good or bad one depending on how you look at it. It looks good to say if you shoot a person attacking they only have a 20% chance of dying. On the other hand, an anti-gun person could say "If the current number of gun related deaths is 20% then that means there's 80% left that have been hurt".

    Anyway. I've been reading more and more Ohio laws online and this is pretty cool. I need to get to bed. But I think it's awesome I could Open Carry tomorrow if I wanted to. I'm going to talk to my LEO buddy's again and quiz them. I'll see how informed they are. I also want to talk to the sheriff and TPD officer on my street and see what they think/know.

    The University of Toledo police chief seems anti-CCW. Maybe he should be reminded one of his LEO's killed a student 10+ years ago or that there have been rapes on the UT trail.

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    sehiser said "One of my friends who is a Sheriff said he would cite public display of firearm or inducing panic."

    When I am carrying my gun I do not have a problem with a casual conversation with a leo. But when a leo is willing to illegally use the power of the law to enforce his point of view as your friend suggested I do have a problem. It seems to me like that attitude is pretty cocky and arrogant

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    sehiser said "One of my friends who is a Sheriff said he would cite public display of firearm or inducing panic."


    I fail to see how carrying a gun openly induces panic, and also fail to see how you can be arrested for such a nonsensical charge without any actual evidence of it. O/C draws no paralell to walking into a crowded theater and yelling "FIRE."
    Inducing panic by carrying agun?? - I find this a rediculous notion, and public display of a firearm is perfectly legal, as long as one is not brandishing. Even if he could site you for this, it would never hold up in court. People need to grow up and get real. Crime is not mythical, and criminals don't play by the rules. Criminals use guns to commit most violent crimes, it makes sense to me to fight fire with fire.



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    sehiser wrote:
    I'll likely not rock the boat with the OC, I'd rather get along with everybody and go with the flow as long as it does not HURT our rights.



    You have it backwards my fellow Ohioan. Open Carry is your right. See Klein V. Leis. Concealed Carry (currently)requires government permission, therfore it is not concidered by the state to be a right. Rights are freedoms which individuals are born with. Concealed carry is curently a privilege. The govenment grants it. Conealed carry permits are nothing more than the government regulating how one may wear his clothes. It is absurd. Example: A21 year old fresh out of marine corps training can walk into a gun store and buy a sidearm for his "defense and security" as enumerated in article one, section four of the Ohio Constitution. He may strap that sidearm to his hip in an OWB holster, and freely walk throuout Ohio. But if his jacket should happen to to fall over the grips and slide of his sidearm, he becomes a felon if he does not have permission from the government to conceal it. The government is in control of how you wear your clothes.

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    Yes I understand that. My point is not to be viewed as a social outsider and gun nut. It is possible to be pro-gun without being in your face about it.

    I have full intention of getting my CCW and the open carry makes me feel much more comfortable knowing I don't have to be concerned about somebody seeing it or not.

    I fully believe if an uninformed person notices a gun in a holster, they think one of these things:

    1. Undercover police officer.
    2. FBI field agent
    3. Some form of plain clothes LEO

    I don't think the average person would think "Just somebody exercising their right to open carry".

    Now, if that person is dressed a little to casual and looks more like they should be on a wanted list than a stereotypical 'good guy' they'll probably get a little heat.

    I can guarantee when I walk into a store wearing a black business suit, people either don't pay attention or think I must be successful in whatever line of work I do.

    If I wore a sidearm, they'd probably think I'm FBI.

    But if I wore jeans and a blue shirt like I am now, they'd think "Gun freak" or "Potential bad guy".

    I'm entirely playing the stereotypical views of society out.

    If I was in line at the grocery store and some gruff looking guy behind me was open carrying a gun I would think to myself "Okay, that's legal but is that guy mentally stable? I have no idea who he is, he might be a nut job".

    I'd be a little nervous because I do not know him even though I know he's not breaking the law. Now, with a LEO in uniform I don't think twice, I know he's undergone psychological tests, trained, etc. But I don't know the other guy from Adam so yeah, being a little concerned even though it's legal is not abnormal.

    My whole point is not rocking the boat. I enjor having a positive community reputation and being known as a good person who is involved. I'd rather not rock the boat with a full open carry and be known as a gun nut when I can just use a priveledge and keep it out of view.

    Am I knocking gun nuts? No, I'm just not one of them. As long as society doesn't get out to vote AGAINST gun nuts, then we need people who are willing to exercise those rights without losing them.

    When I have my CCW, I'll won't have a worry about getting out of my car and putting a jacket on and having people see the sidearm. I won't worry that if I reach into my back pocket and expose my hip I'd be breaking a law, because I won't be.

    Now, if I'm out somewhere and concealed and I see a potential bad guy, I'll just have to make sure he can see my piece.

    What if I'm out and a bad guy I'm not aware of is scoping out whatever job he is about to pull off. He spots my sidearm yet I do not spot him. Who is he going to shoot first?

    I know if I was a BG and I *WAS* going to pull off a job. I'd first take out anybody who could take me out. So now I'm painting myself as a target to a SERIOUSLY bad guy who I might not even be aware of.

    Just like the number of police officers who have been shot when they approached a BG in a car they pulled over. The BG knew they were a cop and that they would arrest them. If Joe Blow walked up to that guy, more than likely since the BG doesn't think he is armed, he's not going to shoot him.

    Open Carry is to CCW what the British were to the Minute Men.

    I think open carry is awesome and I'll do my part to educate people. But I don't intend to make it an in your face affair.

    I will say, knowing OC is legal I'd rather wear an OSW paddle holster than an IWB or Smart/Thunderwear. In the summer, I'd do an IWB.

    I think a holstered gun looks a lot less scary to the untrained eye than a holstered handgun.

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    It will be 4 yrs Nov that i have had my CCW. Going out inpublic for the first time I thought everyone knew I was packing. Came across this web site today and after hours of reading it was time to start again. Went up to the corner store with my OC pumped the gas and went in for a case of beer.The only person who I seen take a second look was the clerk who I see twice a week over the past 10 yrs. I wont be going into the local mall OC but during warm weather days and a fast stop at the corner store it will happen more often.

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    sehiser wrote:
    I think a holstered gun looks a lot less scary to the untrained eye than a holstered handgun.
    Huh?

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    Welcome to OCDO !:celebrate



    It will be 4 yrs Nov that i have had my CCW. Going out inpublic for the first time I thought everyone knew I was packing. Came across this web site today and after hours of reading it was time to start again. Went up to the corner store with my OC pumped the gas and went in for a case of beer.The only person who I seen take a second look was the clerk who I see twice a week over the past 10 yrs. I wont be going into the local mall OC but during warm weather days and a fast stop at the corner store it will happen more often.



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    Are you still waiting to watch someone o/o? If so let me know and you can watch me have my saturday am O/C eggs and coffee at the corner dinner.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Where's that at? Is that your normal routine?

    What time do you grab breakfast?

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    toledo oh, ,
    Posts
    35

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    Star diner 3067 Alexis rd just past Whittmier high school east of Tramainsville south side. Yes this is my sat stop if I dont work, like to eat around 8:30 am. Always face the entrance when sitting in a public restaurant.

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