OPEN CARRY REPORTED IN WILMINGTON NEWS JOURNAL

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I would like to address those of you who have been trying to get an AG to put their neck out on their keyboard and put their neck where their signatures should be.

In the state of Delaware, it has been a vague area of whether or not open carry is legal. Everyone seems to want to know the exact location of the law, but you can look until the cows come home. But, look no further than your state Bill of Rights.

I will post an article from the Wilmington News Journal which although about the use of Deadly Force, clearly states that open carry within the state by those who are not deemed ineligible, are clearly within their right. Please refer to paragraph 11, sentence 1, which states "...-Delaware law allows people to carry an exposed weapon without a permit.".

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/NEWS/802160354/1006/NEWS

Now, I have always been raised to believe nothing I hear and half of what I read. With that being said, let'stry to contact this reporter and pin down his source of information on this tidbit of incredibly important information. Actually, that one line in that paper is probably the best reporting that newspaper has done in 10 years!!!

Well Ladies and Gentlemen, may you have continued safe days of legal protection and remember, just because you can carry openly without a permit, that doesn't give you the right to play "Rambo" nor should you confuse yourself with the "step-arm" of the law enforcement system. I have been told clearly, if someone feels threatened by the fact of your open carry, Disturbing the Peace charges COULD be charged upon you. SO DON"T PLAY HOT-SHOT!!! If you feel this need, we who carry responsibly are done a terrible disservice by this. If open-carrying a weapon makes you feel different in a way that makes you feel "Big" or "Important", please look for some counciling because that is not what this is for...you may need help which you don't even know about.

Thank you for all the fine communication on the site and continue to carry safe, carry legally and always remember to treat every weapon as if it is loaded. God Bless.

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

In the state of Delaware, it has been a vague area of whether or not open carry is legal. Everyone seems to want to know the exact location of the law, but you can look until the cows come home. But, look no further than your state Bill of Rights.

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Not trying to post to the contrary, but we're very well aware (now) that open carry is lawful in most of the state of Delaware, Dover excepting. The fact that there is no law prohibiting it and that our state Constitution plainly guarantees to right to keep and bear arms for self-defense and recreation supports it.

In addition, the News Journal posted an article in January of 2006 where the then-in-office Attorney General stated that Open Carry was lawful.

I have been told clearly, if someone feels threatened by the fact of your open carry, Disturbing the Peace charges COULD be charged upon you.

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In Delaware, there is no such charge as "Disturbing the Peace", only Disorderly Conduct where "The person intentionally causes public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm to any other person, or creates a risk thereof by:" and must fulfill one of seven conditions, the only ones of which that apply are:

a. Engaging in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or

f. Creating a hazardous or physically offensive condition which serves no legitimate purpose; or

The closest of which, I believe, would be (f); however, I very much consider self-defense a very legitimate purpose, as outlined in our Constitution.

SO DON"T PLAY HOT-SHOT!!! If you feel this need, we who carry responsibly are done a terrible disservice by this. If open-carrying a weapon makes you feel different in a way that makes you feel "Big" or "Important", please look for some counciling because that is not what this is for...you may need help which you don't even know about.

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Is it me or does this come off as a bit condescending? Making the assumption that people aren't responsible or that they might need counseling is a bit off-putting. Maybe it's just me, though.

Thank you for all the fine communication on the site and continue to carry safe, carry legally and always remember to treat every weapon as if it is loaded.

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We open carry lawfully. We concealed carry with a permit legally.

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As an aside, feel free to check out the list of Delaware gun and open carry/self-defense related laws I've compiled here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum15/7483.html

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Now, I have always been raised to believe nothing I hear and half of what I read. With that being said, let's try to contact this reporter and pin down his source of information on this tidbit of incredibly important information. Actually, that one line in that paper is probably the best reporting that newspaper has done in 10 years!!!

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I really should do things all at once before I post; however, I sent an email off to the author of this article kindly requesting how he'd come across this information and how, if at all, it was fact checked.

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Thank you for the review of my post. Please let it be known that I am a returning serviceman who prior to leaving the state, this issue was, at best, vague. One can assume that "...but we're very well aware (now) that open carry is lawful in most of the State...", but if I, who considers myself a well read, educated individual, just became aware of the issues that are now the status quo, re-posting what may be the obvious to you shouldn't be discouraged. If someone who is young or just coming into the state hasn't followed this thread, having this current might, just might assist another law-abiding citizen understand his rights in this state.

I apoligize with my lack of recall at the moment of my post, but, I have spoke directly to Beau Biden for not nearly long enough to understand his disdain for a "shall-issue" state (justin hisopinion, I understand how law is passed), but he did state just as you have corrected within the post the consequences of open carry.

Now, I must say that my comments on "Hot-Shoting" may be condecending to you, but while in North Carolina, I worked with a large,Defense contractor which has been in the news a few months ago over problems in Iraqi (I don't want to literally say who). On the side,I taught basic and several other classes onsidearm use, maintainence and technique. Every six months, we would go to the local and state police and ask what issues and problems, if any, they have run across withCDW carriers. The most common complaint was thatusually the newbes would have calls put through to them due to improper carry and numerous other straight out stupid actions by these individuals (one youngwoman decieded to gointo a "moonbounce" at a local carnival all the while holstering a Bersa .380.Yes, she was arrested. But, C'mon!!! This is what I am speaking of. Not being a "Hot Shot" is just a friendly way tomake aware to any new folks to use their head. OK, you know. But not everyone mayhave your degree of knowledge of sidearms and of the law. Plus,after serving 22 years inthe101st and a few other units, I always would remind myto my command that you may hear the same rules or AR 1000 times, but that 1001st might be the difference between an accident prevented and a disasterincurred. It never hurts to hear the obvious for safeties sake, no matter how long we have been involved. Again, please forgive any gramatical and spelling errors,sleep hasn't become a friend to me yet back in the good ol' US of A.

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

(one youngwoman decieded to gointo a "moonbounce" at a local carnival all the while holstering a Bersa .380.Yes, she was arrested.

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pray tell, what was the charge. A properly holstered bersa .380 carried loaded with safety off (DAO) or safety on (hammer down) should be just as safe on a moonbounce, horseback, or skydiving as when walking

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

Thank you for the review of my post. Please let it be known that I am a returning serviceman who prior to leaving the state, this issue was, at best, vague.

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Understandable... I'm hoping new folks would take a quick read of the posts to get the general gist -- with our status on the OCDO main page and between the various discussions and compilation of firearms laws, it'll be easily discernable.

Now, I must say that my comments on "Hot-Shoting" may be condecending to you, but while in North Carolina, I worked with a large, Defense contractor which has been in the news a few months ago over problems in Iraqi (I don't want to literally say who).

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I absolutely understand the point -- and perhaps it's that fact that I've personally met a good number of the people who post in the Delaware forum and, those whom I've met, are well-educated students or professionals who are knowledgable and responsible folks... Maybe just a different approach would hav been better is all I'm suggesting.

In any case, we're having our second monthly get together at the IHOP on route 13 at 8pm, across from New Castle County Airport -- feel free to stop by and say hello.

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I'm interested in the charge on the woman in the moonbounce also

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Greetings to all and thank you for this wonderful forum.

I thought deep throught the night and day today about that incident in the notorious "moonbounce". If my memory serves my correct, this occured while the ride was filled with approximately a dozen young children. Regardless of the fact of how "secure" the sidearm may or may not have been, it was about the "potential for disaster" and "lack of foresight".By putting herself and others in danger of an AD that I certainly recall as why law enforcement was brought into the mix, the charges were, if memory serves me coreect (in other words, intill I get a chance to phone down south over the weekend, let's assume my recall is correct and not dog-pile on ol' Butchyboy over here)were endangering the wefare of a child and reckless endangerment. I absolutely promise that I will phone my ex-First Shirt (now long retired and a call to him is long overdue nonetheless) who has instant recall and will remember the incident vivvidly due to the fact that he was amourously following her until this happened. It actually is one of our "remember when" stories that seem to arise when reunion calls and visits occur.

Being new to the forum, I sincerely appreciate your gracious invitation to your meeting of the contribitors to this wonderful site. I believe in total disclosure and honesty so in that vien of truth, I must admit that even being in charge of several hundred men and women, speaking to groups at different education enviroments and lectures, the thought of meeting the folks who comprise this site has me feeling already on the defensive and "on my heels". I haven't been involved in too many groups that are "civilian" based (other than within the confines of my childrens school in the form of PTA meetings and sports based endeavors). When I have they were usually peppered with the usuall suspects, members of my command, other uniformd and retired former servicemembers whom I knew first from Base and from "The Waters". This being said I will do my best to attend your group meeting. I actually am quite eager to be invvolved in this. I say this without the assistance of my dayplanner, so I'll post at a latter time my ability to attend.

Graciously apprecitive of all of your constructive interpretation and knowledgable insight, thank you.

Respectfully submitted,

BUTCHYBOY2649

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

I thought deep throught the night and day today about that incident in the notorious "moonbounce". If my memory serves my correct, this occured while the ride was filled with approximately a dozen young children.

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If nothing else, it would be nearly impossible to observe Rule #1 properly in such a situation. Muzzle control is still important, even when the weapon is holstered and the trigger well-protected.

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

Greetings to all and thank you for this wonderful forum.
snip...

Being new to the forum, I sincerely appreciate your gracious invitation to your meeting of the contribitors to this wonderful site. I believe in total disclosure and honesty so in that vien of truth, I must admit that even being in charge of several hundred men and women, speaking to groups at different education enviroments and lectures, the thought of meeting the folks who comprise this site has me feeling already on the defensive and "on my heels". I haven't been involved in too many groups that are "civilian" based (other than within the confines of my childrens school in the form of PTA meetings and sports based endeavors). When I have they were usually peppered with the usuall suspects, members of my command, other uniformd and retired former servicemembers whom I knew first from Base and from "The Waters". This being said I will do my best to attend your group meeting. I actually am quite eager to be invvolved in this. I say this without the assistance of my dayplanner, so I'll post at a latter time my ability to attend.

Graciously apprecitive of all of your constructive interpretation and knowledgable insight, thank you.

Respectfully submitted,

BUTCHYBOY2649

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There is no need to feel "on the defensive and "on my heels" Of the 17 members who have put Delaware as their state of residence, only one of them has been a member for more than a year, and he hasn't posted since 2006.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_user.php?region=Delaware&country=USA

We are constantly learning from each other and the only thing we ask in our search for knowledge to help preserve our 2A rights is: if you state something as fact please cite a reference.

Some of us have a military past, some don't. We are just an informal group who share some like interests. As for myself I don't do "groups" or you might say this is a first group. From what I gather we are a pretty diverse group with only a common link.. ours is a desire to protect ourselves and stem the erosion of our rights. Either that or we just like guns

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There is no need to feel "on the defensive and "on my heels"

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ButchBoy, I want to offer a bit of an apology if I've come off as brash -- the majority of us are quite constantly on the defensive when we open carry and we're used to vehimently defending and speaking out for our rights.

As Ijusam has mentioned, most of us only have this one thing in common and it's been a recent spur of interest and opportunity that has allowed us to meet up a few times at the range and last month at the restaurant.

All in all, we're really on the ground floor of all of this -- I truly do hope you're (and, considering todays weather, the rest of us!) able to join us this evening. Another voice and another opinion are always welcome... we respect peoples' opinions as much as the right for people to speak out against that opinion, as long as our discourse remains civil.


swillden wrote:

If nothing else, it would be nearly impossible to observe Rule #1 properly in such a situation. Muzzle control is still important, even when the weapon is holstered and the trigger well-protected.

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The same could be said with horizontal shoulder holsters... it's always pointing at the person behind you...

I'm of the firm belief that there is no such thing as an "AD". In order for the gun to go off, the trigger needs to get pulled -- whether a person thought the weapon was unloaded when they were hammering down, or a the person was holstering the weapon and something was obstructing and got caught in the trigger... it involves negligence on the part of the person.

If a weapon is secure in a holster with the trigger covered, there is no way it's going to discharge unless someone pulls the trigger. The fact that they're around other people, young or not, is not a factor and is a common reason used by anti's as to why people should not be allowed to carry in malls, grocery stores and on campus.

For me, the concern would be more focused around having proper retention in place to prevent the gun from being unholstered and the belief that a gun can 'just go off' really needs to be quashed.

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Wynder wrote:

For me, the concern would be more focused around having proper retention in place to prevent the gun from being unholstered and the belief that a gun can 'just go off' really needs to be quashed.

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A properly-functioning gun should never be able to go off, sure, but I still prefer to be careful with where the muzzle is pointing.

A few weeks ago at a family party I was sitting on a chair with my wife sitting on the floor in front of me. I was carrying in a SmartCarry holster and realized that the muzzle was pointed right at the back of my wife's head. Call me irrational, but pointing a loaded, cocked gun at her head made me uncomfortable enough that I decided to move.

BTW, I meant to say rule #2 in my previous post, in case that wasn't clear.

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Wynder wrote:

swillden wrote:

If nothing else, it would be nearly impossible to observe Rule #1 properly in such a situation. Muzzle control is still important, even when the weapon is holstered and the trigger well-protected.

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The same could be said with horizontal shoulder holsters... it's always pointing at the person behind you...

I'm of the firm belief that there is no such thing as an "AD". In order for the gun to go off, the trigger needs to get pulled -- whether a person thought the weapon was unloaded when they were hammering down, or a the person was holstering the weapon and something was obstructing and got caught in the trigger... it involves negligence on the part of the person.

If a weapon is secure in a holster with the trigger covered, there is no way it's going to discharge unless someone pulls the trigger. The fact that they're around other people, young or not, is not a factor and is a common reason used by anti's as to why people should not be allowed to carry in malls, grocery stores and on campus.

For me, the concern would be more focused around having proper retention in place to prevent the gun from being unholstered and the belief that a gun can 'just go off' really needs to be quashed.

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Butchyboy2649... pardon my manors, welcome.

Wynder... I completely agree with you, but would like to add that we are talking about modern firearms in proper working order. Guns that have been improperly modified or are extremely worn are more likely to malfunction. IMO the last step in a cleaning is a function check.

Gosh... I may take some heat for this from purists, but here goes. Ithink muzzle controlONLY applies when your hand is touching the gun.

In my holster, itis constantly pointed at me (and what about thunderware:what,

lying on my car seat (in plain view) it can be pointing at multiple cars depending on the position of traffic

with a dropleg holster, when you sit down it points in front of you

with a horizontal shoulder holster it points behind you

when being carried in a case it's all over the place.

are these times to be worried... not in my opinion...well maybe the thunderware

IMO Withvery fewexceptions, if your gun is properly secured for the activity (don't skydive while mexican carrying) andyou have proper situational awareness, your activities should be as unrestricted as an unarmed persons.

Regardless of the fact of how "secure" the sidearm may or may not have been, it was about the "potential for disaster" and "lack of foresight".

IMO and as presented to us I see no "potential for disaster" or "lack of foresight" except the same lack of foresight of someone putting a pound of metal in a fannypack and bouncing around where there is a possibility of banging the head of said children. As neither "potential for disaster" nor "lack of foresight" are crimes in Delaware and AFAIK not in North Carolina either, I wonder at the charges and if they stuck. While"Disorderly Conduct" can be used to intimidate by Police, as Wynder pointed out there is criteria that must be met. IMO the best way to determine if your conduct is disorderlyis to substituteanother legal activity and see if the reaction would be the same.

Officer! That man is walking down the street with a poodle in a carry cage! MWAG= MWAP

Officer!It makes me scared because that boy is under 21 and driving a car! ....Sorry it makes you nervous, but he's not breaking the law and I have no justification to pull him over and see if he has a licence. Have a nice day.

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butchyboy2649 wrote:

In the state of Delaware, it has been a vague area of whether or not open carry is legal.

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No, it is not vague at all - it is not illegal, end of story.

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Good post, Butchyboy. Welcome to the forum!

I hope to see you tonight! It's not so much an organized"meeting" per seas it is justa bunch of people gathering for some grub, conversation, and comeraderie - but we all just happen to be armed.