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Disturbing the peace charge

chaneyd

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Jun 20, 2008
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20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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No arrest was made but I was ticketed. Fought the tickets and won, and sued the police department for violation of my 4th Amendment rights and harrassment. Got a letter of apology and they tried using the excuse of being over-zealous. Not happy with that so am pursuing a civil lawsuit.

You don't unleash the police onto the people if they don't know the laws. Their job is to enforce the laws of our state and cities whether they agree with them or not, not invent new ones at their whim or pleasure. Ignorance is no excuse for them as it is not for us. They are supposed to be held to a higher standard than the average citizen. Who hasn't been given a ticket when unknowingly violating some traffic law. What do they say: Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Pay up! We that carry pretty much know more about the Constitution and its laws than the police so the law will be on our side. You have to fight their ignorance. If we let law enforcement get away with it by our silence, then we lose in the end. I fought for 22 years for this country and its laws. I will not cave in.
 

Furner

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Jun 19, 2008
Messages
108
Location
Grand Rapids, MI, , USA
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I think that in another thread, it was addressed that the information from GRPD was not official, and not from their official website. Their official website does not even have any Q&A section that I can find.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
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Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
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kmcdowel wrote:
I looked around and I ended up at a few different places. First, a link brought be back to this exactthread. Second, another forum with people throwing around opinions like they were law. Third, a reader comment on a rebuttle letter to "Brian Jeffs' informative." And lastly, Wikipedia article that says, "An interesting note is that there are no state laws governing the practice of Open Carry, but one must do so at one's own risk, and it is highly advisable not to carry in any urban or residential areas. A Licence is required to carry openly, this is the same licence required to carry concealed. However, without a uniform (security guard) you would probably be charged with disturbing the peace." about OC in Massachusetts.

All of them worthless...
I realize this may be a little late, but I "fixed" the Michigan part of the Wikipedia article on state gun laws. ;)
 

chaneyd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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Here is a link from then Attorney General Granholm which clearly defines brandishing which stands to this day:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10176.htm

Open carry:

No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law

In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_April_2007_198953_7.pdf

Hope this clarifies things better.
 

Northern-Lights

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Joined
Jun 28, 2008
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28
Location
Escanaba, Michigan, , USA
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I'm new and have a question. Yesterday, I called my local Sherrif's dept (Delta County - Escanaba) and was asking about open carry. I"ve never open carried before and was "playing dumb"...... (maybe not playing so much as not knowing much.....LOL)

Anyway, I mentioned that some states like Texas allows a person to carry a weapon in a holster in the open and they can go to the mall to shop, etc. I then ask if it was legal here to do that.

I was told NO WAY! Just curious....but from reading the excellant information on this forum.....I'm thinking I was just lied to. Anyone care to inform me if I can carry or not? Thanks
 

AbNo

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Jun 8, 2007
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Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
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Call back and do your routine again. Then, make 'em cite the specific section of code that prohibits it. ;)

"Well, I know it's in there."

"Is there someone there that knows where?"
 

chaneyd

Regular Member
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Jun 20, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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He lied to you like most of the police heads do. It isn't politically correct for them to be on our side when it concerns handguns. Believe it or not, most of the policedo not reallyknow the gun laws. They go by what they feel the laws should be.

I had a police officer once take my weapon at an outdoor bar/restaurant when he saw me drinking an O'Doul's (this is allowed if the establishment's revenue is more than 50% in food). He stated I violated the gun laws by drinking. I informed me that the law was very clear on that and that I was allowed a level of under .02%, which O'Doul's clearly would not have given me. He told me I didn't know what I was talking about. I filed a complaint with the police department over that and they apologized.

Believe me, cops know next to nothing about OUR gun rights and what is legal. It's time they wise up and learn the laws and quit wasting our time over them. Since we carry, I feel we need to know the law better than they do to protect ourselves.

Enough said.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
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Aug 27, 2006
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Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
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Actually, if you're open carrying, and have a CPL, it doesn't matter if the establishment makes more or less from alcohol sales. It's only if you're carrying concealed on a CPL.

Now, if you're carrying openly, and you don't have a CPL, then can't carry in any business that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises, regardless of whether they make most of the money from sales other than alcohol.

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor;
penalty.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of
1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that
firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the
permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or
a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
 

vtwjmsw

Regular Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
16
Location
, ,
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Ok I just called "Clinton Township Police" and ask if I could open carry, and what would happan if someone called on me and they said there are other laws out there that I would be arrested for open carry!! Heres the number if you want to call them! I would like it if you did, you know more than me!! Clinton Township Police = 586-493-7800. email me back at vtwjmsw@aol.com
 

chaneyd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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There's no point in calling them. The're a bunch of idiots and will do what they want to do. They only way to correct this is by taking them to court. Unfortunate as it may seem. I've been in front of two boards to get my point across. Every police department I know is an expert on state gun laws yet they know nothing. Each department will also tell you something different than another department. I keep a copy of the state laws on me at all times and it seems to make a difference to them when you threaten them will lawsuits.
 

chaneyd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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[align=left]YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN MICHIGAN[/b]*[/b]
[/b]
1) Any law abiding citizen of the State of Michigan[/b] who owns a safety inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Private property rules over-ride state law in regards to firearm possession.[/b]
[/b]
MSP Legal Update Newsletter[/b]: April 2007: Did You Know: …It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…...

PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d[/b] (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank[/b]. b) A church[/b]. c) A court[/b]. d) A theatre[/b]. e) A sports arena.[/b] f) A day care center[/b]. g) A hospital[/b]. h) An establishment licensed under the [/b]Michigan[/b] liquor control act (BAR[/b]). (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
b) A peace officer.
c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.[/b]
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
[/align]

[align=left]2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law.
[/b]
[/align]


[align=left]Michigan[/b] [/b]State Police Web Site[/b]. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’[/b] as: 1)[/b] While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2)[/b] While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3)[/b] While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4)[/b] While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5)[/b] While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6)[/b] While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
[/align]

[align=left]3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to Michigan’s preemption law.[/b]
[/b]
[/b][/b]In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.
[/align]

[align=left]Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
[/b]
[/b]4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm.
[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

BRANDISHING[/b] Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: [/b]…In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish."[/b] This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the [/b]Michigan[/b] Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.[/b]

5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL.
[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.

[/b]6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc.

[/b]Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, [/b]Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441[/b]
“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"[/align]
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
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Big Gay Al wrote:
NervisRek wrote:
Me too. jbarton@wideopenwest.com

It'd be nice if we could get the same in a wallet size.
There is NO WAY you can fit all that, onto something that would fit in a wallet, AND still be readable. ;)


But it's a nice idea.
Copy and paste into a word document and print on letter size paper.Print several copies and put them in a folder to keep in your vehicle. Take one copy and neatly fold to keep on your person when you carry...simple and easy to read.
 

chaneyd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Galesburg, Michigan, USA
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I participated in an open carry march in Hastings this past summer to show solidarityfor open carry. We had over 100 people show up. We dared the police to arrest anyone for this since it is perfectly legal in Michigan to open carry. The police came, watched and went away. Nothing they could do about it. Some said that open carry is not necessarily a good idea because of the way some LEO's take to this idea, but it was done to show that it is a right, not a privilege that we have. It is not brandishing. Printing is also not against the law, whether it upsets someone or not to see it. There is a law to protect citizens from an illegal arrest. The police cannot arrest you for a made up law. They do have a tendency to do this when they are in doubt you did something wrong. Lawsuits generally take care of this later to prevent further arrests. It worked for me.
 
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