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Thread: COSTCO Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Last Saturday, Feb. 16th,wewent shopping at the COSTCO at 110th So and I-15; I had my Sig 9mm on my hip. My wife and me were there for maybe 30 min. when the store manager and his side kick approached me.

    We were waiting for some help with a computer...when this person approached I thought we were going to talk computers. Instead he said;

    Manager:"I see that you have a gun on your hip"

    Craig: "Yes, you are correct".

    Manager: "Are you a police officer"

    Craig: "No, I am not"

    Manager: "Why are you carrying a gun?"

    Craig: "If you must know...It's for my personal protection and It's my right to carry..."Utah law provides formy ability to protect myself, my family, and those that may need protection from any number of wack jobs that may be in this store right now." and then I said, "I noticed that there were no signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms in your store.The only place where I am prohibited from carrying are airports and federal buildings....I noticed that this was nether.

    and then I asked..."Would you like me to leave.

    Manager: No No, I'm not asking you to do that

    Craig: "Then.... Why did you approach me and what are we talking about

    Manager: "We're just concerned" .....

    Craig: "I think that If some nut case...Like the oneat Trolley Square or the one in the Omaha mall came in here and started venting his hatred and anger you would be ask me for HELPrather thanbeing so concerned!!!

    He didn't want me to leave because he noticed that I was spending money in his fine store. His sidekick tailed me and my wife the rest of the time we were there.



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    That's interesting, because COSTCO has a well-known corporate policy against weapons, and since it's a members-only place they could not only have asked you to leave, they could also have revoked your membership. You obviously handled it well enough that the manager didn't feel the need to invoke any of that on you, though.

    Congrats.

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    The somewhat positive outcome was probably due to living in the State of Utah. Most people have at least seen guns and realize in the hands of a "normal" person its not going to miraculously leap off your hip and start killing...

    As far as keeping an eye on you I wouldn't let it bother you. Consider it an education for those two guys, after a few people do this it will become normal to them.

  4. #4
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO, OneClickAway! If your profile is correct, we share a birthday!

    My very first open carry trip was in the Lehi Costco.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...o=16874#p16874

    I often carry there and the Orem Costco, and nobody has ever said a word to me.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    swillden wrote:
    That's interesting, because COSTCO has a well-known corporate policy against weapons, and since it's a members-only place they could not only have asked you to leave, they could also have revoked your membership. You obviously handled it well enough that the manager didn't feel the need to invoke any of that on you, though.

    Congrats.
    I got to ALL three Costco's here in Salt Lake area. At the one in West Valley City as my wife and I was paying I was talking to the Manager and he asked me if I was a Cop and I responded in the Negative. He said that he doesn't have any problem with me carry. He talked about his "arsenal" at home.

    NEVER had ANY problems at ANY Costco at all.

    TJ

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    I shop at costco in AF at least once a week, so far no issues.

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    Great job handling the situation.

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    I OC at the Orem Costco all the time, never any problems just positives from everyone including the customers.
    "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    I shop this Costco frequently. About 1/3 of the time I OC, 1/3 of the time I CC, 1/3 of the time I casuall conceal. I've never had a problem, nor even been approached by any management. I applaud how you handled the encounter.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However, I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.

    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared. And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature. I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attemtping to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....

  11. #11
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    Awww man, the new guy is right. What were we thinking carrying our firearms openly?

    John, quick! Change the name of your website to pleasedontopencarry.org!


    BMXpapa, welcome to OCDO! While we value everyone's opinion here, asking us not to open carry is like going to a Chevy forum and asking everyone to start driving a Ford. Not gonna happen. :P

    Remember, concealment is a crime. Carrying openly is a right. Lets help the public remember this!
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However, I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.

    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared. And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature. I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attemtping to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....
    So, we advance out cause by keeping our rights in the closet?

    History over the last few years shows the opposite my friend.

  13. #13
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However, I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.

    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared. And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature. I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attemtping to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....
    Remember...,to conceal is for now a PRIVILEGE and carry a gun WITHOUT a "privilege" IS a RIGHT.

    I Open Carry all the time except for a VERY few times. My view...if people see more people with it in the open they willget used to it. Remember also, a criminal will NOT Open Carry so I feel VERY comfortable when I see a person OC, cuz that person knows that a Officer MAY approach. A criminal doesn't want to be approached by a LEO and therefore will NOT OC.

    I shared this with a LEO a few days ago and I believe he understood that to.

    TJ

    P.S By the way, if we DON'T Open Carry our Rights we WILL lose them. Remember the African American community along with Martin Luther King Jr. They fought VERY hard for VERY simpleRights. Just because the white folks back then didn't feel that they had ANY Rights, they believed they did and they do.D.S



  14. #14
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    ...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....
    As Clark Aposhian is fond of saying, "Exposure increases tolerance."

    20 years ago homosexuals were shunned in most circles. 10 years ago you started to see some openly gay characters on TV. Today you can't even say anything about sexual orientation without the obligatory "NOT that there is anything wrong with that." Do you really think that all those "gay pride" parades and coming out days and other events "drawing attention" to homosexuals did not play a role in that?

    And yes, homosexuality is off topic on this list. But regardless of what any of us think of the topic, it is a very strong example of controversial conduct that in a very short period of time has gone from being shunned and opposed to being very well accepted, tolerated, even encouraged, in a lot of circles.

    There are a few, rare places or events where I think discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to carrying a gun. I carry concealed when accompanying someone to the hospital. I tend to conceal at what might be considered sacred events such as weddings or receptions or funerals. Occassionally, I will conceal rather than OC simply to avoid potential hassles when I'm not in the mood or when keeping my gun close at hand is more important to me than making a statement.

    But by and large, I feel it is important to OC on a regular basis. People are scared because they don't see regular people carrying guns and if we conceal everywhere we carry, they will continue to not see regular people carrying guns. The deterrent effect of CC is GREATLY enhanced, I believe, when criminals see a few people OCing.

    OC is also a great canary in the mine and bulwark to protect other rights. For 5 years the UoU fought legal CC on campus. They lost. Now it is OC they are attacking. Think they or anyone else is going to spend NEARLY as much time attacking CC so long as they have OC to worry about?

    OC provides opportunities to educate the public (and sometimes the police) that just don't come any other way. We won't win the long term battle if we don't persuade new folks to join our ranks, or at least view us with something other than terror.

    I've NEVER had a negative reaction from a business while OCing or casually CCing. I've only had a couple of experiences involving the police and the two most recent I would have to chalk up as either positive or non-events.

    Finally, I will point out this forum is called OPEN carry dot org. It would be one thing to show up here and seek to come to greater understanding as to why we chose to open carry. It is very poor net-etiquette to show up and on your first post presume to tell us that we are wrong in what we choose to do.

    Show forth the courtesy to introduce yourself and seek to understand before making demands.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  15. #15
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However, I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.

    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared. And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature. I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attemtping to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....
    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that.

    Forcing my will and beliefs upon someone by MY open carrying a firearm? WTF are you talking about. I am no more forcing my will and beliefs upon anyone by open carrying than I would if I were sitting on a park bench reading my Bible and having an atheist get offended when walking by.

    If I were to insist that everyone has to open carry and that they had better strap on a gun or else, then I would be trying to force my will and beliefs. But that is not what is happening. I am not forcing my will and beliefs, I am exercising my RIGHTS. Nothing more, nothing less.

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    As far as Open Carry in Costco, he asked the manager if he wanted him to leave or not. If the manager said "You can't carry in here, please leave" then he would have left peacefully and without arguement. That is what respecting private property rights is all about, complying with the owners wishes.

    don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people.

    And just why are you seperating yourself into "the rest of US, legal gun carrying people." You are by inference seperating your US from our THEM. You are stating that Open Carrying firearms make us guilty of doing something illegal. Hate to burst your bubble, but here you are dead wrong.



  16. #16
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should....

    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However, I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.

    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared. And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature. I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attemtping to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....
    Well thought out and polite, but completely wrong. Thanks for your opinion and please do stay around. You'll find out that while CC is a privilege granted by the state, OC is a TRUE American Right!

    And guess what? Nobody is scared at all, except perhaps you, your first time out!

    Bob



  17. #17
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    WOW, Where do I start.


    I possess a legal and current CCW here in Utah.I am a big advocate of GUN RIGHTS. However,I listen to and read all about what people say about what they should be able to do. But the saying, "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should..." applies so very aptly to those of us who are gun owners and carriers.
    I agree. There are many things that I can do but shouldn’t.


    In a time when Gun Rights and the perception of GUNS in America is at it's highest threat, maybe we need to re-think how we portray ourselves. In light of recent events, people are justifiably scared.


    The world is a very scary place, and that right there justifies being armed.



    And when you see a person walking thru a store with a weapon strapped to his side, and no badge or uniform,,,people wonder if they are next. It has nothing to do with your right to protect yourself or your family,,,it's human nature.


    Why be scared? Guns are not the problem, criminals are.



    I don't carry my weapon to protect anyone else or to prevent harm to others and I don't expect people to have that expectation. So before you think that because your don't see anyone running scared, it doesn't mean that there was not those who were not.


    I carry to protect the people I love. Lots of things scare me and some of them seem silly at first thought, Like minivans, but does that mean people shouldn’t drive minivans?

    And it is not fair or right to force your will or beliefs on others. And when you walk around with your firearm in clear view, you are doing just that. And in doing so, you are helping these people to VOTE against the very rights your are trying to protect.


    YES, NO, and NO. It is wrong to force beliefs on others, but how is me carrying a gun forcing anything on anyone? It is no more forcing than that guy wearing a cowboy hat is forcing me .

    And just for grins and giggles,,,How many of you have been to a local gun show. And be totally honest,,,how many of you have come across one of THOSE people, who are not convicted felons but absolutely scare the hell out you because there is no way in hell some of these people should be allowed be near a gun let alone own or carry one.


    There are a TON more people who scare the hell out of me driving, but they still have license. Innocent until proven guilty. I guarantee my car could kill more people than all my guns combined.

    I was justat a recent gun shop, where a patron was attempting to purchase a beautiful HK...While he was filling out his purchase application,,,he was loudly and proudly bragging about his record being cleared of a domestic violence charge. That his lawyer got him off and he was glad to have paid his "bottom feeding" lawyer good money, because he could now buy a Handgun legally...Makes me feel confident that this person may someday be carrying a firearm,,OC or concealed. Get the picture...


    Well the courts found him not guilty so he is free to own a gun in my book. Just because YOU judge him as guilty and a criminal doesn’t mean he is. While out legal system may be messed up sometimes it is still the best one in the world. Don’t like it... MOVE!

    And as for Costco,,,it is a membership based warehouse, who does have the right not to allow weapons on or inside their property. It is private property. And for those who chose not to abide by it, think for one minute, if it were your house,,,do you expect people to abide by your rules...


    Yes, they have every right as it is private property not open to the public, but to members only. That being said Costco’s rules are: We abide by state law. And in Utah that means guns are allowed.

    Be smart,,,conceal it,,,don't draw unwanted or un-necessary attention to yourselves or the rest of US, legal gun carrying people. All it takes is one bad story,,one bad picture,,,on bad incident and the ANTI-GUN people have all the ammo they want. Don't give it to them.


    All it takes is doing nothing and our gun rights will disappear anyways. Guns always get a bad rap when used in a crime, but positive OC experiences will expose the people to Good uses of guns instead of just bad

    In our case of gun rights,,,the pen is definately louder than the gun....


    So do you suggest we just roll over and give up?

  18. #18
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    Wow,,,nice to know that one person can insight so much from so many.Nice to know that freedom of speech is not the issue here.

    And, as a favor to me, can some one show me where to find the actual law and conditions of what Open Carry is. I would like to be educated as to, the legal conditions of legal open carry. ie: loaded, unloaded, w or w/o magazine, cocked/uncocked, etc.

    As far as the response of WTF....Grow up...if you expect people to understand or respect your opinions, then show the same. I respect everyones opinion here, regardless of whether or not I agree.

    The purpose of these types of forums is to get people to think,,,get people to see other points of view and appreciate other points of view.

    And for the smart--- who said that the name should be changed to pleasedontopencarry.org....Show me where in the Bill of Rights, does it clearly and unquestionably state that you have the RIGHT to Open Carry. If you can find it, then you need to show the Supreme Court,,because alot of us have missed that one.

    For those of "US" and i mean all of us, legal concealed carry, legal OC, legal gun owners, that think that we have "THE RIGHT". Well I have very bad news for you,,,The constitution, the bill of rights, the amendments are all subjective, to ones interpretation. If it wasn't, there would be no GUN RIGHTS debates, either in person, in law, in congress or the suprememe courts. And whats more, its only subjective and truely enforced by the powers to be,,,so don't fool yourself into believing that WE have the right. There are a few men and a couple women who are going to make the FINAL decision on what Your and Mine Rights are.

    In a perfect world, people would understand and accept. But this is a world of perception, of Political Correctness. The ordinary everyday person has no clue, only what they see, hear or read. And what they read is regulated by Politics. Pure and simple, whether it be Government politics, Ecomonic Politics or personal gain. And this is why I say,,,Sometimes, not all the time, "JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD". There is a right place and time for everything. I have the Right to Freedom of Speech,,,but there are places where it would not be prudent or healthy to express it.

    And as far as Law Enforcement goes...Its just like everyone or everything else.You can get 10 different Officers or Deputies from every department here in the SLC/Utah county areas and you will get different opinions from each of the ten from each department. I work closely with Sandy PD and with each officer I have asked about OC and Concealed Carry, each will have their own opinion and interpretation about the laws. I am a believer in Open Carry, I am a believer Handguns, Assault Weapons, 50 cal, Silencers. But again, I also believe in commom sense.

    I'm really going to insight some harsh words....But it goes to Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should,,,,I was in West Valley Recently, and saw a gentleman carrying a Sig 229 in a tac rig, spare mags, tac light,,,OD pants, black t-shirt, black hat and tac boots. I thought for a minute he was LEO or Corrections,,,I found he was not later. This particular gentleman was caucasion, and in a very very ethnic part of West Valley. The locals caught sight of him real quickly, and began to mass numbers quickly. The gentleman was called out and quickly surrounded. Him, his wife and 2 kids were in a bad situation. I was one of several calls to 911. Luckily, West Valley PD responded quickly and was able to intervine before things escalated. The West Valley PD officers who responded, asked the gentleman in question what he thought he was doing, and he responded, "HE WAS EXERCISING HIS RIGHT..." And I believe the Officer's response was, He was also exercising his right to STUPIDITY. He also informed him that had the incident escalated, and the gentleman been forced to defend himself and family with his weapon, that he may have been held responsible for insighting and if a discharge and injury or death occurred, it would not have been viewed as self defense, and that the locals may also have had the right to feel that they acted in self defense as they felt there was a threat.

    And finally, DO NOT assume that I am against Open Carry, I am completely for it. And for those who said OC is legal and Concealed carry is illegal,,,,Come on,,,lets not get into a battle of semmantics. Getting a Concealed carrry permit to be legal is no different than getting a driver's license to be a legal driver.

    And as for the person who was approached and questioned by the Retail/Wholesale manager in Sandy, the reason the manager questioned the person pertaining to this, is because the management did receive several comments of concern, and as for why he did not agree to to ask the person to leave...Well, here's where that world of Political Correctness steps in. The manager himself is put into a place where he had to make decision of plus and minuses. And it was not a personal decision, it was business. And yes I do know the situation, and please don't ask how,,,again due to politcal correctness....



  19. #19
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Wow,,,nice to know that one person can insight so much from so many.Nice to know that freedom of speech is not the issue here.

    And, as a favor to me, can some one show me where to find the actual law and conditions of what Open Carry is. I would like to be educated as to, the legal conditions of legal open carry. ie: loaded, unloaded, w or w/o magazine, cocked/uncocked, etc.

    As far as the response of WTF....Grow up...if you expect people to understand or respect your opinions, then show the same. I respect everyones opinion here, regardless of whether or not I agree.

    The purpose of these types of forums is to get people to think,,,get people to see other points of view and appreciate other points of view.

    And for the smart--- who said that the name should be changed to pleasedontopencarry.org....Show me where in the Bill of Rights, does it clearly and unquestionably state that you have the RIGHT to Open Carry. If you can find it, then you need to show the Supreme Court,,because alot of us have missed that one.

    For those of "US" and i mean all of us, legal concealed carry, legal OC, legal gun owners, that think that we have "THE RIGHT". Well I have very bad news for you,,,The constitution, the bill of rights, the amendments are all subjective, to ones interpretation. If it wasn't, there would be no GUN RIGHTS debates, either in person, in law, in congress or the suprememe courts. And whats more, its only subjective and truely enforced by the powers to be,,,so don't fool yourself into believing that WE have the right. There are a few men and a couple women who are going to make the FINAL decision on what Your and Mine Rights are.

    In a perfect world, people would understand and accept. But this is a world of perception, of Political Correctness. The ordinary everyday person has no clue, only what they see, hear or read. And what they read is regulated by Politics. Pure and simple, whether it be Government politics, Ecomonic Politics or personal gain. And this is why I say,,,Sometimes, not all the time, "JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD". There is a right place and time for everything. I have the Right to Freedom of Speech,,,but there are places where it would not be prudent or healthy to express it.

    And as far as Law Enforcement goes...Its just like everyone or everything else.You can get 10 different Officers or Deputies from every department here in the SLC/Utah county areas and you will get different opinions from each of the ten from each department. I work closely with Sandy PD and with each officer I have asked about OC and Concealed Carry, each will have their own opinion and interpretation about the laws. I am a believer in Open Carry, I am a believer Handguns, Assault Weapons, 50 cal, Silencers. But again, I also believe in commom sense.

    I'm really going to insight some harsh words....But it goes to Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should,,,,I was in West Valley Recently, and saw a gentleman carrying a Sig 229 in a tac rig, spare mags, tac light,,,OD pants, black t-shirt, black hat and tac boots. I thought for a minute he was LEO or Corrections,,,I found he was not later. This particular gentleman was caucasion, and in a very very ethnic part of West Valley. The locals caught sight of him real quickly, and began to mass numbers quickly. The gentleman was called out and quickly surrounded. Him, his wife and 2 kids were in a bad situation. I was one of several calls to 911. Luckily, West Valley PD responded quickly and was able to intervine before things escalated. The West Valley PD officers who responded, asked the gentleman in question what he thought he was doing, and he responded, "HE WAS EXERCISING HIS RIGHT..." And I believe the Officer's response was, He was also exercising his right to STUPIDITY. He also informed him that had the incident escalated, and the gentleman been forced to defend himself and family with his weapon, that he may have been held responsible for insighting and if a discharge and injury or death occurred, it would not have been viewed as self defense, and that the locals may also have had the right to feel that they acted in self defense as they felt there was a threat.

    And finally, DO NOT assume that I am against Open Carry, I am completely for it. And for those who said OC is legal and Concealed carry is illegal,,,,Come on,,,lets not get into a battle of semmantics. Getting a Concealed carrry permit to be legal is no different than getting a driver's license to be a legal driver.

    And as for the person who was approached and questioned by the Retail/Wholesale manager in Sandy, the reason the manager questioned the person pertaining to this, is because the management did receive several comments of concern, and as for why he did not agree to to ask the person to leave...Well, here's where that world of Political Correctness steps in. The manager himself is put into a place where he had to make decision of plus and minuses. And it was not a personal decision, it was business. And yes I do know the situation, and please don't ask how,,,again due to politcal correctness....


    "I was in West Valley Recently, and saw a gentleman carrying a Sig 229 in a tac rig, spare mags, tac light,,,OD pants, black t-shirt, black hat and tac boots."

    Who is this Gentleman ???

    I live in West Valley and would love to take this guy and family out for a OC lunch. They need a medal if you ask me.

    I OC a S&W 4006 or a Kimber all the time

    TJ


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    And as for the last response regarding Costco and state law. Yes Costco abides by state law, but Costco and retailers, restaurants, movie theaters, and such do have the right to restrict and prohibit weapons from their properties.Maybe you should contact local law enforcement and get a clerification for yourself. Because Costco's policy as is other retailers is not to allow firearms and they have the legal right to do so and have the full backing of law enforcement to enforce this policy. No you will not be charged with any violation of law for doing so, but you can and will be asked to leave and not to return with the weapon. And should you do so you can be charged with tresspassing. And yes you can laugh at the tresspassing charge, but I am aware of at least one case in which a person was charged with tresspassing after having been asked not to return to a retail store(by the management and localPD)with his weapon, and as a result of the charge and follow thru with the district attorney, the gentle man lost his permit to carry and as I understand it, he may lose his ability to possess and own a firearm. The person question had his weapon fall out of his holster while squatting down to pick up his child from under a display is how the incident came to light.

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    Can I ask a dumb question, which I am sure is going to generate a whole rash of crap.

    Again,,I am with all of you on the being able to Open Carry. So while you are letting me have it,,,please keep that in mind.

    But everyone has a perception of good and bad. And I would like to have totally honest answers, not politically correct ones. And to further carry this, I am of non caucasion ethnicity, and I will not be offended,,,other may be, but I won't.

    But can I ask, Since it is being said that it is a RIGHT to Open Carry, who here is comfortable with:

    1. The Los Angeles, South SLC, West Valley etc, type of gang banger having his "GAT" strapped to his person in open. Whether he be Black, Hispanic, South Pacific, White Supremist, Asian (Chinese, Vienamese, etc)

    2. Persons of Middle Eastern decent....

    ETC ETC ETC. As long as they haven't been convicted of a felony,,,

    Because lets face it,,,,we all carry our weapons for protection and the possibility of threat. And human nature being what it is....And Current world events...

    Who out there feels that that Brutha standing on the corner at nite should be carrying his piece...

    Who out there feels that that ******* walking downredwood in taylorsville should be carrying his gun out in the open....

    Who out there feels that the towel head should have a gun at all....

    Should that cracker with the swastika tatooed on his chest have a 45 on his hip....

    And How comfortable are people shopping in Trolley Square when they see someone carrying a gun....Specially the relatives if victims, if they ever step foot in there again....

    I ask these things, because being someone of ethnic background, I have subjected to these same questions,,,by Cops, by everyday people.

    So I am curious, if the right to OC applies equally...

    Because as I have said before,,,perception is reality for a lot of people...



  22. #22
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    And, as a favor to me, can some one show me where to find the actual law and conditions of what Open Carry is. I would like to be educated as to, the legal conditions of legal open carry. ie: loaded, unloaded, w or w/o magazine, cocked/uncocked, etc.

    There is no "actual law" for open carry, only the lack thereof. That bieng said, here is one you need to know.


    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.

    So what is a loaded weapon? Here it is.

    76-10-502
    .
    When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.



    And for those who said OC is legal and Concealed carry is illegal,,,,Come on,,,lets not get into a battle of semmantics. Getting a Concealed carrry permit to be legal is no different than getting a driver's license to be a legal driver.
    Find a law for me that says that open carry is a violation of the law. Here is the law that states that concealment is the crime.

    76-10-504. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon -- Penalties.
    (1) Except as provided in Section 76-10-503 and in Subsections (2) and (3):
    (a) a person who carries a concealed dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-10-501, which is not a firearm on his person or one that is readily accessible for immediate use which is not securely encased, as defined in this part, in a place other than his residence, property, or business under his control is guilty of a class B misdemeanor; and
    (b) a person without a valid concealed firearm permit who carries a concealed dangerous weapon which is a firearm and that contains no ammunition is guilty of a class B misdemeanor, but if the firearm contains ammunition the person is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
    (2) A person who carries concealed a sawed-off shotgun or a sawed-off rifle is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (3) If the concealed firearm is used in the commission of a violent felony as defined in Section 76-3-203.5, and the person is a party to the offense, the person is guilty of a second degree felony.
    (4) Nothing in Subsection (1) shall prohibit a person engaged in the lawful taking of protected or unprotected wildlife as defined in Title 23, Wildlife Resources Code, from carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm with a barrel length of four inches or greater as long as the taking of wildlife does not occur:
    (a) within the limits of a municipality in violation of that municipality's ordinances; or
    (b) upon the highways of the state as defined in Section 41-6a-102.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  23. #23
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    And, as a favor to me, can some one show me where to find the actual law and conditions of what Open Carry is. I would like to be educated as to, the legal conditions of legal open carry. ie: loaded, unloaded, w or w/o magazine, cocked/uncocked, etc.
    Sure thing.

    See Title 76, Chapter 10 of the Utah code.

    76-10-504 says it's illegal to carry concealed weapon, unless you have a permit.

    76-10-505 says it's illegal to carry a loaded weapon on the street or in a vehicle. However, Utah has a somewhat unusual definition of "loaded", which is defined in 76-10-502. Also, 76-10-523 says that none of this applies to CFP holders -- it is not illegal for CFP holders to carry a loaded weapon on the street or in a vehicle.

    So, without a permit, nothing in the law prohibits you from openly carrying a Utah-unloaded weapon, but you can't conceal it. Having a permit exempts you from the concealment and loading restrictions. Nothing in the law specifies a duty to conceal, regardless of what the University of Utah would like to believe.

    BMXpapa wrote:
    And as for the last response regarding Costco and state law. Yes Costco abides by state law, but Costco and retailers, restaurants, movie theaters, and such do have the right to restrict and prohibit weapons from their properties.
    Incorrect.

    Utah state law gives owners of private residences and churches the right to prohibit weapons from their properties (76-10-530), and it specifies that certain secure facilities are off-limits (726-10-523.5). No one else has any authorization to prohibit weapons under the law. There is nothing providing this power to non-governmental organizations and 726-10-500 specifically prohibits counties and municipalities from making firearm laws (except where specifically authorized by the legislature).

    However, private property owners do have the right to eject people for just about any reason, so if COSTCO sees you carrying a gun (openly or just poorly-concealed), they can ask you to leave. If you don't, you're trespassing. COSTCO has another option as well that most retailers don't: you sign a contract when you obtain your membership. That contract may have some punitive clauses for disobeying their rules. I haven't read it, but I expect that at the very least they can terminate your membership.

    Legally, however, COSTCO can do nothing to you beyond enforce the terms of the contract you signed, and ask you to leave.

    BMXpapa wrote:
    Maybe you should contact local law enforcement and get a clerification for yourself.
    Bad idea. Law enforcement is a notoriously bad source of information on the law. If you really want to understand this stuff, ask an attorney. Utah attorney Mitch Vilos has a book out on Utah gun laws that explains everything quite well. You can pick up a copy at most gun stores.

  24. #24
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    BMXpapa wrote:
    Can I ask a dumb question, which I am sure is going to generate a whole rash of crap.

    Yes, and it will.

    Again,,I am with all of you on the being able to Open Carry. So while you are letting me have it,,,please keep that in mind.

    But everyone has a perception of good and bad. And I would like to have totally honest answers, not politically correct ones. And to further carry this, I am of non caucasion ethnicity, and I will not be offended,,,other may be, but I won't.

    But can I ask, Since it is being said that it is a RIGHT to Open Carry, who here is comfortable with:

    1. The Los Angeles, South SLC, West Valley etc, type of gang banger having his "GAT" strapped to his person in open. Whether he be Black, Hispanic, South Pacific, White Supremist, Asian (Chinese, Vienamese, etc)

    I am.

    2. Persons of Middle Eastern decent....

    No problem there.

    ETC ETC ETC. As long as they haven't been convicted of a felony,,,

    I like non felons.

    Because lets face it,,,,we all carry our weapons for protection and the possibility of threat. And human nature being what it is....And Current world events...

    Who out there feels that that Brutha standing on the corner at nite should be carrying his piece...

    My "brother" carries a "piece".

    Who out there feels that that ******* walking downredwood in taylorsville should be carrying his gun out in the open....

    Are we racist now?

    Who out there feels that the towel head should have a gun at all....

    Me.

    Should that cracker with the swastika tatooed on his chest have a 45 on his hip....

    If he wants to.

    And How comfortable are people shopping in Trolley Square when they see someone carrying a gun....Specially the relatives if victims, if they ever step foot in there again....

    I don't carry to make others comfortable. I carry to comfort myself.


    I ask these things, because being someone of ethnic background, I have subjected to these same questions,,,by Cops, by everyday people.

    Good for you.

    So I am curious, if the right to OC applies equally...

    It does.

    Because as I have said before,,,perception is reality for a lot of people...
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
    Robert A. Heinlein
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    19Thannk You very much for your reply,

    But, can you put that in plain english for me...I have read the "Law" as stted and written....

    I do possess a carry conceal,,,so I realize things are somewhat different, but..

    Does that mean I can carry my sidearm, in the open, with a loaded magazine and a round in the chamber.....Or does the chamber have to be empty,,,

    What state does the firearm have to be in to be carried legally in the open...I carry a SW M&P or a SW 1911 (cocked and locked)



    Thanks

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