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Thread: Every shooter crazy 'bout a 'gun-free' zone. VIN SUPRYNOWICZ, Las Vegas Review Journal

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    http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15918992.html

    I see where Clark County School District Superintendent Walt Rulffes has responded to the drive-by murder of a 15-year-old Palo Verde High School inmate by another one of his young charges by whining that it's difficult to prevent his wards from shooting each other given today's "easy access to guns" and television violence.

    I'm not sure about the TV part -- seems to me most of the drive-bys I've seen portrayed on the tube have concluded with the perpetrator going to prison.

    Just as it's true that there would be fewer shootings if we "got rid of all the guns," so would there doubtless be fewer rapes if we "got rid of all the penises." But -- as attractive as the scheme might seem to the disciples of Andrea Dworkin -- I suspect there might be some hint of a civil rights problem with a society-wide penis removal program, even though the right to keep and bear those organs is not protected as explicitly in the Constitution as the right to keep and bear arms of military usefulness.

    The point, if I must connect the dots, is that only an infinitessimal percentage of those possessed of either, um, tool use it to commit a crime, so we might want to look beyond "easy availability" for an explanation of such behaviors.

    Once again last week, all our overlapping "gun control" laws failed to work. On the other hand, if the young perpetrator had been taught proper gun safety on the school shooting range -- such facilities were ubiquitous through the 1960s; I was taught safe supervised shooting at Eaglebrook in Massachusetts starting at age 12 -- what are the chances this killer would have remained so chillingly opaque to the likely consequence of his actions?

    Meantime, on the subject of school shootings, surely I wasn't the only one to notice the befuddled opinion piece credited to The Washington Post, right there on our Feb. 16 front page:

    "DEKALB, Ill. -- If there were lessons learned after the Virginia Tech massacre, they were: Lock down and notify," the supposed "news" story began.

    "School officials did neither until hours after the first shots sounded across the Blacksburg, Va., campus in April. Northern Illinois University officials did not make the same mistake Thursday.

    "But the actions could not stop a gunman armed with powerful rapid-fire weapons and the intent of killing as many people as possible, higher education and safety experts said Friday. ...

    "By many preliminary accounts, the university did well: Within 30 seconds of a report of shots fired at Cole Hall, the first officer was on the scene. But he was too late. The shooter, Steven Kazmierczak, 27, a former graduate student who was armed with a 12-gauge shotgun and three pistols, had already sprayed more than 50 rounds of buckshot and bullets at panicked students before turning his weapon on himself. Six people ... were killed."

    Here's the way that story would read, if constructed by someone not demented by anti-gun hysteria:

    "If school officials and gun-grabbing politicians thought the lesson of the shooting deaths of 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus last April was 'lock down and notify,' they learned the fruitlessness of such top-down 'control' solutions when another depraved dropout shot and killed five students in less than a minute at Northern Illinois University Feb. 14.

    "What did Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech still have in common, as of Feb. 14, 2008? They both remained artificial 'gun-free zones,' where self-serving politicians have effectively barred potential victims from carrying self-defense weapons."

    On their Web sites, the gun-grabbers whimper sarcastically that, "The NRA will absurdly insist the solution is MORE GUNS! Ha ha ha."

    But to ridicule the obvious step of "allowing" civilians to carry arms for self-defense -- a right which all levels of government are barred from infringing by the 2nd and 14th amendments -- is akin to saying, "Why, to hear these madmen tell it, the best way to eliminate smallpox is to inoculate people with cattle pox, spreading even more disease! Hee-haw!"

    In fact, it worked, just as armed students and an armed vice principal cut short would-be student rampages at Appalachian School of Law in 2002 and at Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., in 1997.

    "If there is a way where this tragedy could have been anticipated and stopped beforehand, we will find it," vowed Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich on Feb. 16.
    Actually, there was a link between the first modern schoolhouse shooter; Kip Kinkel of Springfield, Ore.; one if not both of the teen killers at Columbine High School; and most of our other domestic mass killers of recent years. A link that makes a lot more sense than "the easy availability of guns."

    Steven Kazmierczak had recently stopped taking his Prozac, his girlfriend told the press less than a week after the NIU shootings.

    Guns were far easier to obtain in this country before 1968 -- you could buy them through the mail. But there were hardly any such mass-shooting rampages.
    On the other hand, chart the frequency of these mass shootings against the widespread introduction of such hallucinogenic drugs as Prozac, Ritalin and Luvox among the inmates of the tax-funded youth concentration camps -- the kinds of drugs that Kip Kinkel had been on, the kind that got Columbine killer Eric Harris blocked from enlistment in the Marines. Let me know what you find.

    Meantime, there's a second-best solution -- the one that "allowed" congregation member and former police officer Jeanne Assam to cut short an intended rampage by disgruntled former student Matthew Murray, carrying two handguns, an assault rifle and more than 1,000 rounds of ammo, at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs just two months ago.

    Until they get around to properly re-labeling the depravity-inducing drugs which have been prescribed to nearly all these mass shooters ("This stuff may make you kill people,") Gov. Blagojevich could tell the Illinois Legislature and sundry county authorities it's way past time to restore the Second and 14th amendment right to self-defense in Illinois by repealing every one of their overlapping "gun control" laws, ending that state's status as a de jure "gun-free zone."

    But he won't do that. Will he?

    Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal and author of the novel "The Black Arrow." See http://www.vinsuprynowicz.com/.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15918992.html

    I see where Clark County School District Superintendent Walt Rulffes has responded to the drive-by murder of a 15-year-old Palo Verde High School inmate by another one of his young charges by whining that it's difficult to prevent his wards from shooting each other given today's "easy access to guns" and television violence.

    I'm not sure about the TV part -- seems to me most of the drive-bys I've seen portrayed on the tube have concluded with the perpetrator going to prison.

    Just as it's true that there would be fewer shootings if we "got rid of all the guns," so would there doubtless be fewer rapes if we "got rid of all the penises." But -- as attractive as the scheme might seem to the disciples of Andrea Dworkin -- I suspect there might be some hint of a civil rights problem with a society-wide penis removal program, even though the right to keep and bear those organs is not protected as explicitly in the Constitution as the right to keep and bear arms of military usefulness.

    The point, if I must connect the dots, is that only an infinitessimal percentage of those possessed of either, um, tool use it to commit a crime, so we might want to look beyond "easy availability" for an explanation of such behaviors.

    Once again last week, all our overlapping "gun control" laws failed to work. On the other hand, if the young perpetrator had been taught proper gun safety on the school shooting range -- such facilities were ubiquitous through the 1960s; I was taught safe supervised shooting at Eaglebrook in Massachusetts starting at age 12 -- what are the chances this killer would have remained so chillingly opaque to the likely consequence of his actions?

    Meantime, on the subject of school shootings, surely I wasn't the only one to notice the befuddled opinion piece credited to The Washington Post, right there on our Feb. 16 front page:

    "DEKALB, Ill. -- If there were lessons learned after the Virginia Tech massacre, they were: Lock down and notify," the supposed "news" story began.

    "School officials did neither until hours after the first shots sounded across the Blacksburg, Va., campus in April. Northern Illinois University officials did not make the same mistake Thursday.

    "But the actions could not stop a gunman armed with powerful rapid-fire weapons and the intent of killing as many people as possible, higher education and safety experts said Friday. ...

    "By many preliminary accounts, the university did well: Within 30 seconds of a report of shots fired at Cole Hall, the first officer was on the scene. But he was too late. The shooter, Steven Kazmierczak, 27, a former graduate student who was armed with a 12-gauge shotgun and three pistols, had already sprayed more than 50 rounds of buckshot and bullets at panicked students before turning his weapon on himself. Six people ... were killed."

    Here's the way that story would read, if constructed by someone not demented by anti-gun hysteria:

    "If school officials and gun-grabbing politicians thought the lesson of the shooting deaths of 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus last April was 'lock down and notify,' they learned the fruitlessness of such top-down 'control' solutions when another depraved dropout shot and killed five students in less than a minute at Northern Illinois University Feb. 14.

    "What did Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech still have in common, as of Feb. 14, 2008? They both remained artificial 'gun-free zones,' where self-serving politicians have effectively barred potential victims from carrying self-defense weapons."

    On their Web sites, the gun-grabbers whimper sarcastically that, "The NRA will absurdly insist the solution is MORE GUNS! Ha ha ha."

    But to ridicule the obvious step of "allowing" civilians to carry arms for self-defense -- a right which all levels of government are barred from infringing by the 2nd and 14th amendments -- is akin to saying, "Why, to hear these madmen tell it, the best way to eliminate smallpox is to inoculate people with cattle pox, spreading even more disease! Hee-haw!"

    In fact, it worked, just as armed students and an armed vice principal cut short would-be student rampages at Appalachian School of Law in 2002 and at Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., in 1997.

    "If there is a way where this tragedy could have been anticipated and stopped beforehand, we will find it," vowed Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich on Feb. 16.
    Actually, there was a link between the first modern schoolhouse shooter; Kip Kinkel of Springfield, Ore.; one if not both of the teen killers at Columbine High School; and most of our other domestic mass killers of recent years. A link that makes a lot more sense than "the easy availability of guns."

    Steven Kazmierczak had recently stopped taking his Prozac, his girlfriend told the press less than a week after the NIU shootings.

    Guns were far easier to obtain in this country before 1968 -- you could buy them through the mail. But there were hardly any such mass-shooting rampages.
    On the other hand, chart the frequency of these mass shootings against the widespread introduction of such hallucinogenic drugs as Prozac, Ritalin and Luvox among the inmates of the tax-funded youth concentration camps -- the kinds of drugs that Kip Kinkel had been on, the kind that got Columbine killer Eric Harris blocked from enlistment in the Marines. Let me know what you find.

    Meantime, there's a second-best solution -- the one that "allowed" congregation member and former police officer Jeanne Assam to cut short an intended rampage by disgruntled former student Matthew Murray, carrying two handguns, an assault rifle and more than 1,000 rounds of ammo, at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs just two months ago.

    Until they get around to properly re-labeling the depravity-inducing drugs which have been prescribed to nearly all these mass shooters ("This stuff may make you kill people,") Gov. Blagojevich could tell the Illinois Legislature and sundry county authorities it's way past time to restore the Second and 14th amendment right to self-defense in Illinois by repealing every one of their overlapping "gun control" laws, ending that state's status as a de jure "gun-free zone."

    But he won't do that. Will he?

    Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal and author of the novel "The Black Arrow." See http://www.vinsuprynowicz.com/.

    No, Doug, he will not. Though he and Mayor Richard Daley have armed security 24/7. Why? Are they more important than us? What is right for one is right for all. And if they are so bent on eliminating guns, then they should stand by their principles and their guards and policemen should be unarmed. Level the playing field a bit, ya know? But no! Their guards and the police need weapons because criminials are armed! No ****. That's why we need them. Until these ****** bags stand by their principles, nothing they say has any merit. They are political favoritism jag-offs.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I'm still wondering about the meds connection vs the societal factors and decay of the nuclear family issues. I haven't kept up on research in these areas in the last many years since I stopped reading American Psychological Association publications and related industry journals. My guess is that most of the research in this arena though, is so agendized that most results are of little meaning being a narrow scope of the researchers expertise and agenda.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    I'm still wondering about the meds connection vs the societal factors and decay of the nuclear family issues. I haven't kept up on research in these areas in the last many years since I stopped reading American Psychological Association publications and related industry journals. My guess is that most of the research in this arena though, is so agendized that most results are of little meaning being a narrow scope of the researchers expertise and agenda.
    I don't think I've weighed in on this much, but...

    I'm not convinced the problem is the chemicals in the medications themselves, but rather telling kids that they have a problem with their head that only medicine can fix. Similar, perhaps, to issues involving addiction.

    As far as societal factors, I feel that's a bit more complex. A non-nuclear family may not be "macho" nor "American" enough for our good neo-cons, but they can work with parents just as caring and responsible as the Bradys. My hunch is that the issue is the nanny-state mentality. When you expect the government to give you everything, you tend to get pissed off when life doesn't work out the way you expect. Girlfriend broke up with you? Got rejected by a college? Unhappy with life in general? But Big Brother was supposed to keep you safe! Thus leading to a disconnect, and a desire to take out the frustration on others.

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    When you expect the government to give you everything, you tend to get pissed off when life doesn't work out the way you expect. Girlfriend broke up with you? Got rejected by a college? Unhappy with life in general? But Big Brother was supposed to keep you safe! Thus leading to a disconnect, and a desire to take out the frustration on others.
    Take your drugs (even 'meds' trivializes the issue), alcohol, nicotene, caffeine or prescribed downers, tranks, uppers or the masses' opiates. Then we'll all get along just fine. Don't worry, be happy.

    How many here on OCDO would have us believe that the water is not hot enough for action just yet. Wait a bit more before we try to hop, froggie like, out of the pot of not quite boiling water. Hot enough yet? Now?

    When will we decide where Loki's head divides from the neck to cut it off. How many grains is in a heap?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    I'm still wondering about the meds connection vs the societal factors and decay of the nuclear family issues. I haven't kept up on research in these areas in the last many years since I stopped reading American Psychological Association publications and related industry journals. My guess is that most of the research in this arena though, is so agendized that most results are of little meaning being a narrow scope of the researchers expertise and agenda.
    I don't think I've weighed in on this much, but...

    I'm not convinced the problem is the chemicals in the medications themselves, but rather telling kids that they have a problem with their head that only medicine can fix. <SNIP>

    Agreed.
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    deepdiver wrote:
    I'm still wondering about the meds connection vs the societal factors and decay of the nuclear family issues. I haven't kept up on research in these areas in the last many years since I stopped reading American Psychological Association publications and related industry journals. My guess is that most of the research in this arena though, is so agendized that most results are of little meaning being a narrow scope of the researchers expertise and agenda.
    I'd like to know when ritlan (sp) and big time depression med's started being pushed in schools compared to when these school shootings ramped up...

    I think it has a lot to do with the over-feminization of men in todays culture. Boy's don't know how to react to stress, depression, and anger. When the lid blows, it blows bad.

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    I sent this to someone I very much respect who is a licensed clinical therapist and very good at the job, although not currently in practice due to non-professional related reasons. I asked for an opinion on the meds connection and I'm posting the response as I thought it just makes a lot of sense:

    My theory is based upon anecdotal evidence only -- whatI observed with my clients. One definition of depression is "anger turned inward." I found that depressed men tend to expresstheir moodby angry feelings and behaviors; women, by feeling sad and crying.Depressed people lack energy (both physical and mental); this leads to their inability to think of solutions and to take action (e.g., exercise) that can help them improve their situations. Thus, if they're having suicidal (or, perhaps, homicidal) thinking, they haven't the wherewithal to acton it. When a person begins a regimen of Prozac, for example, (especially if these drugs are prescribed without any accompanying psychotherapy)over time they begin to feel more energetic. However, without any change in the way they've been thinking about their lives (that's where talking to a counselor is important), they continue to dwell on the negative thoughts, and, potentially,tomake a plan of action (that they now also have the energy to carry out). Anyway, this may be one reason the depression rates are highest in December and suicide rates,in April and May.Physiologically, people have less energy, anyway, during the winter. Add depression into that mix and you end up with alethargic person curled up in a fetal position on the couch in a dark living room. Anyway, when spring rolls around, everyone becomes more active around them.But rather than feel better, sometimes the discrepancy (between how they feel and how the rest of the world appears to be operating) widens. Their genetic response to springbrings with it "energy." Thus, they feel psychologically worse and have the wherewithal to plan and carry out a lethal action.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    I sent this to someone I very much respect who is a licensed clinical therapist and very good at the job, although not currently in practice due to non-professional related reasons. I asked for an opinion on the meds connection and I'm posting the response as I thought it just makes a lot of sense:

    My theory is based upon anecdotal evidence only -- whatI observed with my clients. One definition of depression is "anger turned inward." I found that depressed men tend to expresstheir moodby angry feelings and behaviors; women, by feeling sad and crying.Depressed people lack energy (both physical and mental); this leads to their inability to think of solutions and to take action (e.g., exercise) that can help them improve their situations. Thus, if they're having suicidal (or, perhaps, homicidal) thinking, they haven't the wherewithal to acton it. When a person begins a regimen of Prozac, for example, (especially if these drugs are prescribed without any accompanying psychotherapy)over time they begin to feel more energetic. However, without any change in the way they've been thinking about their lives (that's where talking to a counselor is important), they continue to dwell on the negative thoughts, and, potentially,tomake a plan of action (that they now also have the energy to carry out). Anyway, this may be one reason the depression rates are highest in December and suicide rates,in April and May.Physiologically, people have less energy, anyway, during the winter. Add depression into that mix and you end up with alethargic person curled up in a fetal position on the couch in a dark living room. Anyway, when spring rolls around, everyone becomes more active around them.But rather than feel better, sometimes the discrepancy (between how they feel and how the rest of the world appears to be operating) widens. Their genetic response to springbrings with it "energy." Thus, they feel psychologically worse and have the wherewithal to plan and carry out a lethal action.
    Hmm, that does seem to make sense.

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    Well I felt like crap and started taking the meds and improved very quickly to where I was not harboring angry grudges and nothaving frightening feelings anymore. Some relapsing started afew months later, soI TOLD MY DOCTOR, and he put me on zoloft andI have been a zombie ever since LOL ( please don't shoot me in the head LOL).



    The key here is I worked with the doctor, and knew when things didn't feel right and did something about it. When I had depression, yes I could not act upon whatever impulses I had due to the lethargy of the situation- butI maintained full lucidity of right and wrong too(I did however put out my emotions into art and writing- a very good way to deal with it). WhenI got treatment I become a new person but who still knows right from wrong. Heck I about sickened myself this morning killing another fox( or maybe the fox is what sickened me- it had mange), and it took all I had to get my butt to go out and reset my otter,mink, and muskrat traps. With the med on the dose I am on now I have no impulses whatsever to hurt anything, and trapping which I used to enjoy has becomeuninteresting to me. Last spring bought a depression relapse and -yes- I was a totally different person for a while, until the new dose kicked in.



    Not sure whats up with these mass shooters, but they are a VERY rare breed when you compare the millions of people on the same meds who do not get homicidal and suicidal urges. I agree that teenagers get misdiagnosed- they ARE teenagers! You know the kids with all the crazy hormonal stuff going on? Maybe thats the problem?So you have kids with nutty hormones who have these stupid parents and teachers who over react to NORMAL teenage behavior patterns, and put them on mood altering meds they DO NOT need. You might as well give them some crack to smoke. Oh and I'd bet alot of these kids do not have a good father figure in their lives either- either a divorce, single mom parenting, or a dad who is not there due to work,or is there but not into being a dad.



    Oh and notice how very very few women do these acts.

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