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Thread: Probable Cause

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I remembered a thought (hurt like the dickens). Last year a Owosso city cop came to my door looking for my son. I told him he wasn't here. Cop says I'll come in and check and grabbed the handle to the storm door--LOCKED---(I always keep my storm doors locked so they can't say I opened it for them) I said not without probable cause ora warrant. Now here's the point. The cop (very aggresive) tells me by wearing a gun he has the right to enter and check legal ownership of the weapon. I told him my gun has nothing to do with my son not being here. Then he mentioned the charge of obstruction and I went off--- prove he's here and charge me or get the F___K off my porch right now. Must have made my point. He left, but a few minutes later I did see a patrol car parked down the next block for a few hours. So what I need is the vast amount of knowledge here to help me.

    What is Mich probable cause for entering a residence, and where can I find it? Thanks, Jerry

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    http://www.flexyourrights.org/at_your_door

    Permitting an officer to enter your home is the equivalent of waiving your Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures. Without a warrant, police officers absolutely cannot enter your home without your permission or an emergency circumstance* that could justify their entry.
    *Exigent Circumstances A judge may uphold an officer’s warrantless search or seizure if "exigent circumstances" exist. Exigent circumstances were described by one court as "an emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect or destruction of evidence."

    WARNING: If you ever face a real-life police encounter where the officer is urging you to consent to a search, do not try to figure out whether or not the search is legally permissible. You must assume that the search is not legally permissible and that the search will only be legal if you consent. If an officer is in fact legally allowed to search you, you have nothing to lose by refusing to consent.

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    Hi look under google and type in (probable cause michigan) there will be a glossary of all the common terms used in law

    Thank you Cato!!

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    I am not a lawyer. Somebody correct me if I have something sideways.

    Probable cause is one of those phrases that defines itself. The thing giving rise to the cause/reason for a search or seizuremust be probable, as opposed to maybe/might/could somehow remotely...

    Probable cause as far as your state is concerned, will be defined in court opinions. Most likely opinions where convictions were reversed because an arrest or warrant was deemed to not have enough reason (cause)for the reason to be calledprobable.

    You handled it fine. No warrant = no entry.

    The only thing I might suggest is that next time send a loud, noisy complaint. He tried to intimidate you into waiving your 4th Amendmentrights.

    There is no firearm exception to the 4th Amendment. See US Supreme Ct. decision Florida vs JL. http://tinyurl.com/2gppnuThis doesn't really apply in your case, because yours wasn't a stop and frisk situation. I include it just to show that the court declined to create a firearm exception. You could check state law for a statute that lets a police officer just stop anybody and run the serial number of their gun. Without that, which I doubt exists, the 4th Amendment and its case law applies. In order to check the serial number, he has to seize the gun. In order to do that, the officer has to have reasonable suspicion that a crime was, is being, or is about to be committed.

    Also, there are numerous opinions makingthat front door threshold a very difficult plane for police to break. Its a bedrock principal in law going back centuries into Englishcommon law. There are exceptions, like a murder in progress, so its not a total ban. Butthe courts seem to give it great weight.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Thanks to all: knew I could get an answer or as I am so riminded-- Opinions-- that I appreciate a lot. I'll check the links given.

    Jerry

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Most excellent link /advice. THANKS, Jerry

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    What is Mich probable cause for entering a residence, and where can I find it? Thanks, Jerry
    A few examples on when entry can be made....



    • Invitation
    • Door open and alarm has activated
    • Door open and neighbor reports nobody is home
    • Search Warrant
    • Arrest Warrant
    • Person being chased runs into the house
    • Medical Emergency observed
    • 911 hang up
    • A call for help and the caller is reported to not "be there" now
    • Screams can be heard coming from inside

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    dougwg wrote:

    That video has made the rounds but its always a great post. I saw it on another board recently too.

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    cato wrote:
    http://www.flexyourrights.org/at_your_door

    Permitting an officer to enter your home is the equivalent of waiving your Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures. Without a warrant, police officers absolutely cannot enter your home without your permission or an emergency circumstance* that could justify their entry.
    *Exigent Circumstances A judge may uphold an officer’s warrantless search or seizure if "exigent circumstances" exist. Exigent circumstances were described by one court as "an emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect or destruction of evidence."

    WARNING: If you ever face a real-life police encounter where the officer is urging you to consent to a search, do not try to figure out whether or not the search is legally permissible. You must assume that the search is not legally permissible and that the search will only be legal if you consent. If an officer is in fact legally allowed to search you, you have nothing to lose by refusing to consent.
    Good post!

    If a cop asks then the answer is NO. If a cop doesn't ask then let the Courts determine his propriety depending on the totality of the circumstances of the home-invasion.

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