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Thread: New Pamphlet on CA Open Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Here is a pamphlet that I have put together.

    This needs to be printed on both sides in landscape format with it turning on the short edge.


    BEFORE THE TRANSFER TO THE NEW WEBSITE, THIS PAMPHLET WAS DOWNLOADED OVER 13,000 TIMES.

    https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D35533_8_7142810983
    Last edited by Decoligny; 07-06-2010 at 03:03 AM.

  2. #2
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Between Mudcampers, yours and my pamphlets I think the topic is pretty well covered.

    I'd have to say I like your bi-fold brochure format. Not too sure about some of the wording though-

    Example;

    PC 171b – Can’t open carry any firearm into state or local public buildings or at any meeting required to be open to the public
    The statute prohibits weapons possession, not 'open carry'.

    Example;


    PC 12031 – Can’t carry a LOADED firearm in an incorporated city or in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory
    You can carry a loaded firearm in an incorporated city- under certain exemptions. Instead of writing 'can't' I would lean towards "Possession of loaded firearmsis generally prohibited,..."

    I may be being overly critical and put too high a premium on wording- but all ofourguides could use some refinement. Sure would be nice to have this run through an attorneys fine toothed comb, but I doubt we would find one in California to give it their legal blessing.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Yeah, I hear ya. I was kind of coming at it from a specific "Open Carry/non-LTC holder" perspective and was tryng to address just that aspect whilekeeping itas simple a presentation as possible. I look at it as more of a guide to what the law says so that people can peruse the pamphlet, find the applicable code and look up the actual legalese at their own convenience.

    I have no problem with rewriting any portion of the pamphlet, but it has to fit in the space given.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    I like it. Nice layout too. Haven't gone over it with the fine tooth comb yet, but I will.



  5. #5
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Here is another version in a Bi-Fold setup.

    Just print it in landscape and flip it on the short edge.

    Then just fold in the middle.



  6. #6
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    I think this should be included as it "allows"open carry possession at play grounds/youth centers provided one is not in violation of 417 (b), 12031 (loaded firearm), and 12025 (concealed).
    626.95. (a) Any person who is in violation of paragraph (2) of
    subdivision (a), or subdivision (b), of Section 417 , or Section
    12025 or 12031, upon the grounds of or within a playground, or a
    public or private youth center during hours in which the facility is
    open for business, classes, or school-related programs, or at any
    time when minors are using the facility, knowing that he or she is on
    or within those grounds, shall be punished by imprisonment in the
    state prison for one, two, or three years, or in a county jail not
    exceeding one year.


  7. #7
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Thanks Cato,

    I will look at including that. I also have to look at including a statement to be aware of any county/city ordanances that make carrying, open or otherwise, illegal. In another thread here in the CA forum, a poster listed an ordanance from Palo Alto, if I remember correctly that makes it illegal to carry in most circumstances within Palo Alto City Limits. Haven't looked at it closely yet, but I will.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Thanks Cato,

    I will look at including that. I also have to look at including a statement to be aware of any county/city ordnances that make carrying, open or otherwise, illegal. In another thread here in the CA forum, a poster listed an ordnance from Palo Alto, if I remember correctly that makes it illegal to carry in most circumstances within Palo Alto City Limits. Haven't looked at it closely yet, but I will.
    Most city/county codes dealing with firearm possession in public places and on private propertyare preempted. The state has legislated very extensively on possession. The state has even specificallymentioned openly carried firearms in several statutes, as well as dealt with loaded firearms in public and concealed firearms. Those city/county possession laws are void under the "explicit" and "implied" preemption that courts have recognized as existing under Ca statute and our state constitution IMO.

    Still it is a confusing issue to discuss and explainand as IANAL I'd love to hear a Ca gun lawyers opinion on these city/county carry possession muni codes and whether they are in whole or part preempted as written.

    Note: Berkley has a total ban on possession of semi-autos - which is clearly preempted as broadly as it is written. These places need to be sued!!!!!

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=berkley

  10. #10
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Thanks Cato,

    I will look at including that. I also have to look at including a statement to be aware of any county/city ordnances that make carrying, open or otherwise, illegal. In another thread here in the CA forum, a poster listed an ordnance from Palo Alto, if I remember correctly that makes it illegal to carry in most circumstances within Palo Alto City Limits. Haven't looked at it closely yet, but I will.
    Most city/county codes dealing with firearm possession in public places and on private propertyare preempted. The state has legislated very extensively on possession. The state has even specificallymentioned openly carried firearms in several statutes, as well as dealt with loaded firearms in public and concealed firearms. Those city/county possession laws are void under the "explicit" and "implied" preemption that courts have recognized as existing under Ca statute and our state constitution IMO.

    Still it is a confusing issue to discuss and explainand as IANAL I'd love to hear a Ca gun lawyers opinion on these city/county carry possession muni codes and whether they are in whole or part preempted as written.

    Note: Berkley has a total ban on possession of semi-autos - which is clearly preempted as broadly as it is written. These places need to be sued!!!!!

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=berkley
    I agree. I was thinking more on the lines of including a disclaimer something like "Be aware that there may still be City/Municiple Ordinaces that while may not be legally enforcable due to State preemption, theymay still lead to arrest by City Police."

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    I haven't looked at the pamphlet but I would err towards including something on the premption issue. Something like Cato' comment with edits:

    Caution: There are some local ordinances which deal with firearm possession in public places and on private property. These ordinances MAY BE preempted under Cal P.C [section] and [case citations]. The state has legislated very extensively on possession. City/county possession laws MAY BE void under the "explicit" and "implied" preemptions that courts have determined exist.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    I would appreciate any help finding anything about preemption. I haven't found anything in the P.C. nor have I seen any case law.

    The only thing I could find on State preemption was Government Code 53701 which preempts only the registration and licensing of firearms.

    I know that S.F. recently got shot down by CA Supreme Court, but that was about ownership within city limits IIRC.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    I would appreciate any help finding anything about preemption. I haven't found anything in the P.C. nor have I seen any case law.

    The only thing I could find on State preemption was Government Code 53701 which preempts only the registration and licensing of firearms.

    I know that S.F. recently got shot down by CA Supreme Court, but that was about ownership within city limits IIRC.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/5166.html

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=92652

    Looks like the word is being spread throughout the land. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

  15. #15
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=92652

    Looks like the word is being spread throughout the land. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
    Yeah and it only took 2 years of repeatedly telling pro-gunners that it was 'legal' to get them to this point.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    I know that S.F. recently got shot down by CA Supreme Court
    No. It was an appellate court decision that struck down measure "H". SF has now appealed to the CASC and it has not yet been accepted or argued.

  17. #17
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Bumb (poor man's westcoast sticky):P

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Thanks! and good job.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    I know that S.F. recently got shot down by CA Supreme Court
    No. It was an appellate court decision that struck down measure "H". SF has now appealed to the CASC and it has not yet been accepted or argued.
    Well, It has been now. Just have to fight off the anti-preemption bill now.

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    bump

    I forgot about this flyer until I got a copy this weekend. I plan to add this to my 'ghetto sticky' list. So, be prepared for obsessive-compulsive bumping.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    OCD BUMP

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