Va Beach police officer forced to shoot armed man

dixiehacker · Feb 27, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

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Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

This may require a different thread, but Lon Horiuchi was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The government should not be going after someone who purhcased a shotgun that had a barrel that it deemed was too short. Horiuchi is a good sniper who ended up making a critical mistake much in the same way that a surgeon could kill someone by slipping with the scapal. When a swat team was sent to assail the Weaver family, the family was put into risk by that decision, the disaster was not just the fault of those on the ground.

Citizen · Feb 27, 2008

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dixiehacker wrote:

SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

Click to expand...

Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

Click to expand...

SNIP This may require a different thread, but Lon Horiuchi was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'd go along with that as far as discussing broad policy issues.

However, he was the one who pulled the trigger.

jack · Feb 27, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

Click to expand...

Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

Good answer !

Actually I just finished a book (COLD ZERO) by former special agent & HRT snipper Christopher Whitcomb. He was with his team member Lon Horiuchi at both Ruby Ridge and Waco. Horiuchi has kills at both locations and as a result was removed from his snipper position on the HRT. Pick up the book if you get a chance. It's fascinating and yet it makes you realize what twisted bastards these guys are. Some of the comments made in the book are pretty chilling.

It takes a big man to slaughter a pregnant woman from 4oo yards away with a .50 caliber Barrett. In my mind they are baby burners after Waco, plain and simple.

Picture attached:

Doug Huffman · Feb 28, 2008

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

Horiuchi successfully petitioned to remove the case to federal court,[4] where the case was dismissed by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge on May 14, 1998, who cited the supremacy clause of the Constitution which grants immunity to federal officers acting in the scope of their employment.

Three of the twelve

expended .308 Winchester

Click to expand...

shell casings that the Texas Rangers reported finding in the house were at Horiuchi's position. However, officials maintain that they could have been left behind from the earlier use of the house by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and that it would be "nearly impossible" to match them to Horiuchi's rifle, as it had probably been rebarreled since that time.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

Thundar · Feb 28, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

Click to expand...

Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

Lon Horiuchiis a Federal thug and the #1 reason that the only armed Federal Officers with Law enforcement Powers should be the Coast Guard. BATFE, DEA, EPA, Park Service and FBI all have paramilitary units not suited for use against citizens. Take away all of their firearms. Hard to be a thug with a bow and arrows.

Doug Huffman · Feb 28, 2008

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Not even USCG.

LEO 229 · Feb 28, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

Click to expand...

Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

I do not know all the details regarding this person. Furthermore it would be switching topics to discuss this person here since it is a different shooting incident

Your little snip about it is not really necessary as I believe you understand what I am saying. You are only looking for some way to dispute it.

If you do not agree with me and believe people should be able to shoot at unknown persons standing outside their home thought the door.. just say so. I am only giving my opinion that you mustfirst identify your target.

I do not speak for this guy and he does not represent what I believe is proper. So please do not try to attach me and my opinions to the actions of others that may be in the same line of work.

But we are getting off topic from the original subject.

Doug Huffman · Feb 28, 2008

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty

LRS76251 · Feb 28, 2008

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It appears that the same perpetrators who cop bash are doing it again. If those of you who cop bash would come off of whatever it is you are on and comprehend the points made instead of constantly voicing your opinions against law enforcement maybe we would get somewhere on this board. Law officers are not on a power trip. This board is not about discussing LE tactics. Law enforcement agencies have standardized procedures in place and those that do not act within the scope of what is legal are held accountable according to the laws of this nation and our constitution. Please remove your tin foil hats and have a reality check.

mzbk2l · Feb 28, 2008

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You're asking a lot, LRS.

That mentality seems deeply ingrained in some regular posters here.

Sa45auto · Feb 28, 2008

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mzbk2l wrote:

You're asking a lot, LRS.

That mentality seems deeply ingrained in some regular posters here.

Sad but true. :uhoh:

Kevin Jensen · Feb 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

SGT Jensen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

You simply CANNOT shoot blindly at someone behind a door.

Click to expand...

Really? It worked for Lon Horiuchi. :shock:

Click to expand...

I do not know all the details regarding this person. Furthermore it would be switching topics to discuss this person here since it is a different shooting incident

Your little snip about it is not really necessary as I believe you understand what I am saying. You are only looking for some way to dispute it.

If you do not agree with me and believe people should be able to shoot at unknown persons standing outside their home thought the door.. just say so. I am only giving my opinion that you mustfirst identify your target.

I do not speak for this guy and he does not represent what I believe is proper. So please do not try to attach me and my opinions to the actions of others that may be in the same line of work.

But we are getting off topic from the original subject.

Wow, way to get offended LEO.

I simply read your post and Lon popped into mind.

If you REALLY want my opinions about LEO's, we can go there.

LRS76251 · Feb 28, 2008

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You guys need to lay off Agent Horiuchi. Agent Horiuchi was only one of several trigger yankers on the scene that day and each agent is responsible for their own actions. There was no hidden agenda or orders to kill the Weavers. Please remove the tin foil from your head. Agent Horiuchi had his reasons for deciding to shoot that day and only he can answer for as to why he chose to dump Mrs Weaver. It was based on what he saw going on at the time. Its too easy to armchair quarterback from the computer when you weren't the one driving the rifle at the time that shoot occurred.
Based on what we know now after the investigation, it was a tragic set of events that rolled on that day. Agent Horiuchi has to live with what he did that day and only he can put it to bed for himself. I'm quite sure that the events of that day are something that never will leave his mind and he'll take it to his grave.

vtme_grad98 · Feb 28, 2008

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LRS76251 wrote:

It appears that the same perpetrators who cop bash are doing it again. If those of you who cop bash would come off of whatever it is you are on and comprehend the points made instead of constantly voicing your opinions against law enforcement maybe we would get somewhere on this board. Law officers are not on a power trip. This board is not about discussing LE tactics. Law enforcement agencies have standardized procedures in place and those that do not act within the scope of what is legal are held accountable according to the laws of this nation and our constitution. Please remove your tin foil hats and have a reality check.

That's not really an accurate statement. It would be more accurate to say that "Law officers are not ALL on a power trip". It has been my experience that most police officers are basically decent people that are frequently a bit jaded or biased because of the types of people they encounter so often. I have also met the officers that took the job so they could beat people up without going to jail. I just hope we can always keep the latter group in the minority.

Also, bear in mind that being legal doesn't necessarily make something moral or ethical.

LRS76251 · Feb 28, 2008

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I guess I should have stated that MOST law enforcement officers aren't on a power trip. Law enforcement is like any other profession in that you have good apples and bad ones. Thankfully, there aren't many bad ones but unfortunately, the bad ones tend to get all the media attention which makes it harder on those of us who try to do the right thing. Personally, we need to do whatever we can as a profession to weed the bad ones out. There are always going to be folks who slip through the cracks. However, those who have tasted the tears know what the true meaning of being a public servant is. Its not all about making arrests, etc.

Sa45auto · Feb 28, 2008

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LRS76251 wrote:

I guess I should have stated that MOST law enforcement officers aren't on a power trip. Law enforcement is like any other profession in that you have good apples and bad ones. Thankfully, there aren't many bad ones but unfortunately, the bad ones tend to get all the media attention which makes it harder on those of us who try to do the right thing. Personally, we need to do whatever we can as a profession to weed the bad ones out. There are always going to be folks who slip through the cracks. However, those who have tasted the tears know what the true meaning of being a public servant is. Its not all about making arrests, etc.

Amen!

LEO 229 · Feb 28, 2008

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LRS76251 wrote:

I guess I should have stated that MOST law enforcement officers aren't on a power trip. Law enforcement is like any other profession in that you have good apples and bad ones. Thankfully, there aren't many bad ones but unfortunately, the bad ones tend to get all the media attention which makes it harder on those of us who try to do the right thing. Personally, we need to do whatever we can as a profession to weed the bad ones out. There are always going to be folks who slip through the cracks. However, those who have tasted the tears know what the true meaning of being a public servant is. Its not all about making arrests, etc.

I have posted this as well. It does not matter to some.

If you do the same job... you are just as guilty for all the bad acts that have been committed by a few in your line of work.

I believe that it is a form of discrimination... is it not???

Kinda like hating all the people from one race for what only a few have donefrom that same race.

Some here refuse to believe there is a differenceas it is easier to hate all from the profession then to decide for themselves on a case by case basis.

LEO 229 · Feb 28, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

Wow, way to get offended LEO.

I simply read your post and Lon popped into mind.

If you REALLY want my opinions about LEO's, we can go there.

It is sad that you have to think that way.

But even worse that you actually decided to post it for your own personal reasons. :?

Not offended in the least.. I have been on this board a while nowand it takes more than that to offend me.

It is more that I am disappointed in you.

Doug Huffman · Feb 28, 2008

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LEO 229 wrote:

I have been on this board a long time now and it takes more than that to offend me.

No. For many posts, for many words, not 'long' time relatively or absolutely. Blithe is the word.

Sa45auto · Feb 28, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

.....If you REALLY want my opinions about LEO's, we can go there.

SGT Jensen, You have said and done a lot of things that I highly respect.

I am not, nor have I ever been, LEO, and I have met my share of bad ones, BUT we live by rule of law and there are always those appointed to help us live those laws. Sometimes the guilty take this hard and blame the messanger.

I have truly never been given a ticket, for example, where I was not, to some extent, guilty. Yes I didn't like it and yes there were times that the officer was on his own power trip, BUT I was guilty. It may have been an accident, and in some instances the Judge saw it my way, BUT I have to admit my error.

You are a fine young man with a beautiful wife and family.

Teach them to live the rule of law, in both word and deed.

I don't want to lose you as a Hero.

Va Beach police officer forced to shoot armed man

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