get a hi point

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That is how the zinc-cast anything. Aka Die-cast

That is the zinc-cast alloy that is regulated by an american department.

You say it is zinc-cast you say it isn't.

Their website says it is die-cast.

Are you on drugs?

I've had TONS of experience with aluminum/zinc cast/die cast material for cars.
If you buy the stuff from taiwan/china most of it is cast that way.

You pay more for steel, or steel/chrome.

QUOTE FROM HI-POINT: In the area of Ohio where we are located, there are many shops that specialize in die casting for the auto industry. We utilize this resource.

If you think that they could stand up to the cross gun examination of the likes of glock/S&W/SIG in heat tests, multiple thousand round tests, etc, you have another thing coming.

The metallurgy won't stand the test of time, and varying between hot and cold while shooting does not make this a gun you keep for a very long time, or take to the range very much.

I guess I can throw a hi-point with my die-cast collection, if I had one.

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iroc192 wrote:

That is how the zinc-cast anything. Aka Die-cast

That is the zinc-cast alloy that is regulated by an american department.

You say it is zinc-cast you say it isn't.

Their website says it is die-cast.

Are you on drugs?

I've had TONS of experience with aluminum/zinc cast/die cast material for cars.
If you buy the stuff from taiwan/china most of it is cast that way.

You pay more for steel, or steel/chrome.

QUOTE FROM HI-POINT: In the area of Ohio where we are located, there are many shops that specialize in die casting for the auto industry. We utilize this resource.

If you think that they could stand up to the cross gun examination of the likes of glock/S&W/SIG in heat tests, multiple thousand round tests, etc, you have another thing coming.

The metallurgy won't stand the test of time, and varying between hot and cold while shooting does not make this a gun you keep for a very long time, or take to the range very much.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_bears

See, you're wrong. We all know that teddy bears are nice. So Hi-Points should be nice, too. Just look at the article, it proves it!

Back in the day when I was Chief Teddy Bear Stuffer, I saw what went into those bear. Trust me, you wouldn't want that cycling through anything other than a Hi-Point.

:celebrate

Pwnd!




(Sorry, I couldn't help myself...)

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Wow Imperialism2024, your wiki reference was actually more relevant than Iroc's! I searched for the terms firearm, pistol, gun, handgun, and hi-point on iroc's link and came up with nothing. I did the same with yours, and I actually got a hit with the word 'gun'!

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QUOTE FROM HI-POINT: In the area of Ohio where we are located, there are many shops that specialize in die casting for the auto industry. We utilize this resource.


Obviously I'm not at the right place to talk seriously about guns, because no one takes Hi-Point seriously.

This thread is a joke.

I should stay away from areas where everyone wants to buy everything they own from Wal-Mart.

Clearly, this is a wal-mart forum.

When you all figure out that you can do things with your own two-hands and how things work instead of taking it to a gunsmith/mechanic/computer tech, you will recieve wordly knowledge that you never had before and metal composition of die-cast products will be in your memory banks for such instances as this.

If the only experience you have is of a relatively new gun, and you have no welding/brazing/metallurgy experience than you have next to no right to post about the metallurgy and makeup of the gun itself.

We all know you love your die-cast gun. I love my die-cast toys also. If you break them both, its all white metal under the paint.

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Uh oh, you flamed the forum...thats it, no more birthdays for you....

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iroc192 wrote:

That is how the zinc-cast anything. Aka Die-cast

That is the zinc-cast alloy that is regulated by an american department.

You say it is zinc-cast you say it isn't.

Their website says it is die-cast.

Are you on drugs?

I've had TONS of experience with aluminum/zinc cast/die cast material for cars.
If you buy the stuff from taiwan/china most of it is cast that way.

You pay more for steel, or steel/chrome.

QUOTE FROM HI-POINT: In the area of Ohio where we are located, there are many shops that specialize in die casting for the auto industry. We utilize this resource.

If you think that they could stand up to the cross gun examination of the likes of glock/S&W/SIG in heat tests, multiple thousand round tests, etc, you have another thing coming.

The metallurgy won't stand the test of time, and varying between hot and cold while shooting does not make this a gun you keep for a very long time, or take to the range very much.

I guess I can throw a hi-point with my die-cast collection, if I had one.

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You really should post your sources of information. The bold highlighted quote is from a Shooting Times article titled: "Hi-Point Pistols: Basic, but Oh so reliable"

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/

Every review done on the Hi-Point by the major Gun Magazines has had nothing but good things to say, even if they didn't like the look or feel.

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DreQo wrote:

Wow Imperialism2024, your wiki reference was actually more relevant than Iroc's! I searched for the terms firearm, pistol, gun, handgun, and hi-point on iroc's link and came up with nothing. I did the same with yours, and I actually got a hit with the word 'gun'!

Click to expand...

:celebrate

Uh-oh, I shop at Wal-Mart, too!

Ironically, my Wal-Mart stopped selling guns because there wasn't enough of a demand there... I don't remember there being handguns there, either. Though that's a shame, because now that I'm on my parents' Sam's Club membership, I'd hope to be able to pick up a 20-pack of guns or something like that...

Anyhow, I need to get back to examining my Mosins. Hell, they're not made in America, they're cheap, and I'm pretty sure that the Russians made them from the same stuff they used to make car parts. There's gotta be some white metal in them somewhere...

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Your review is from a shooters' standpoint only, and only for a couple hundred rounds. There is no tests of time, heat, or over 1000+ rounds.

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iroc192 wrote:

Your review is from a shooters' standpoint only, and only for a couple hundred rounds. There is no tests of time, heat, or over 1000+ rounds.

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Well, how about freezing it a block of Ice, then beating the ice off of it and firing of a box of ammo. If it were brittle, something would have broken. Go ahead, put your favorite gun in a pan of water and leave it in the freezer for a week.



http://hipointfirearmsforums.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=1223&highlight=torture+test

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All metals have a stronger tensile strength when new and frozen.

They have less impact strength.

Putting any gun in water and freezing it, then beating out the ice and shooting it proves that a gun can be frozen and shot after the water was frozen, then the ice removed and crushed in it.
You have discovered somthing never before tested! - not

Metal fatigue occurs after multiple fluctuating temperates and impacts/beatings.

It doesn't occur brand new and freezing it at 32 degrees. Especially not to metal.

Metal fatigue can not be measured without time and signifigant changes to the metal that would accelerate the chemical changes that the metal goes through over time.

Catalysts to such metal failure/fatigue are - Exposure to things that create single or double replacement reactions to said metal in a given time.
Exposure to things that make the compound of die casts physical bonds break down. (Die-cast is a mixed metal that is not a new metal, but still two seperate metals and somtimes zinc oxide.) Mainly, oxygen. The rate at which this occurs is slow. Compared to steel or stainless steel it is rapid degradation and overall structure breakdown.

Heat is always a catalyst. It accelerates all breakdown of all materials.
Oxygen is a catalyst for both.

Metal fatigue between the physical bonds of die cast are also tested and fatigued against the action of the gun itself. Metal fatigue is also warping.

Diecast metal starts out a grayish, but then ends up white, usually at the time of failure. If you drop it below 0 to -20 or even further, you will run into trouble with zinc aluminum die cast metals.

This was not copypasted from anywhere.

The should put it through the other tests and see what happens. Put the S&W M&P 9 in the cement mixer with sand, gravel and dirt and let it run. fired it. Would you trust your Hi-Point to 20,000 rounds like the M&P? What about 2,500 rounds in 40 minutes?

Or glock. froze it, run it over with a truck, dropped it off buildings, threw them against the wall, buried it in sand and test firing it, and the list goes on.

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iroc192 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal


Uses of pot metal are many vehicle applications because it is cheap. When it gets between 4-6 years old it gets odd.

10+ years it crumbles to dust.

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i guess pot metal is the reason the headlight buckets doors off of my 65 mustang are in such bad shape



oh wait they are perfect still:shock:

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All metals have a stronger tensile strength when new and frozen. They have less impact strength.

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I guess you didn't hear that he beat the ice out of it. That is most definitely an "impact" force, not tensile.

Put the S&W M&P 9 in the cement mixer with sand, gravel and dirt and let it run. fired it. Would you trust your Hi-Point to 20,000 rounds like the M&P? What about 2,500 rounds in 40 minutes

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I certainly hope nobody in here is in a situation that requires them to fire thousands of rounds in under one hour with a handgun. If they are, I hate to say it, but they probably wont survive. I can say that if the gun is reliable, it is a great choice for someone who cannot afford a gun that costs 5 times as much.

Not to mention that if they did fire 20,000 rounds and it broke for any reason, apparently they'd receive a new one from hi-point.

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bbvk05 wrote:

1. Buy a hi-point c-9. Do the mag tweeks that you find online. only load the mags to 5 rounds for the first 500.

2. Note the 2-5% failure to feed jamming that takes place anyway.

3. Call hi-point and tell them your c-9 jams to much. They will mail you a box and can mail it back to you directly. They will pay the postage and charge you nothing.

4. You will get back a gun that is as reliable as a glock, IMO, along with some free mags.

They rework everything and polish the feed ramp, and it is really well done. Hi-points are basically crap new, but if you shoot them some and have hi point rework them they are superb.

Ive done this about 6 times now with guns I intended to use as back up guns, fishing box guns and truck guns. ALL 6 have had 0, let me repeat, 0 malfunctions after getting them back from hi-point.

I even carry them sometimes. I view it as a 115 dollar glock with a little hassle.

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I'd rather take the money I'd spend on 500 rounds and buy a gun that works well and handles well the first time, like a Bersa.

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Light buckets/frames are not made out of pot metal, sorry.
I'd rather have a stainless gun with a stainless frame to fail instead of a hi-point.
Even reviews say its not for an active range shooter.

expvideo is right.

Also, you're going on someones post of what they did without any real proof.
You can beat wood with ice between it, you can hit it harder than you ever would because ice disperses energy and stops movement. Its an inherent physical property of any crystalline-like compound.

If the metal is beat alone, it will travel further because there is nothing to stop it.

You personally did not see how hard it was beat, there was no video. You were not there.

You have less proof than I do and are doing nothing but calling me a liar, when I have metallurgy properties, quotes from hi-point, their building process, the firearms construction and my own experience.

It is not even comparable to a 350+ $ gun because it is 120$, it's just how the world goes.

You dont get somthing fantastic for cheap. You don't get somthing for nothing.

If you think this gun is at any way comparable to glock, S&W, CZ, anything. Show the proof backing it up with smithing/metallurgy/cost/tooling, etc. Show it in a real documented torture test, not a forum.

I'll keep my stainless steel subframe and milled stainless steel slide with my stainless steel barrel on my recoil actuated gun.

Not a polymer frame, steel insert, mounted barrel, blowback actuated gun on die cast slide. Hell, stamped steel costs more because you have a machine, but guess what happens to a sheet of die-cast that i tried to conform to a machine bending process? It rips. If you haven't seen metal rip, you haven't seen anything yet.

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expvideo wrote:

bbvk05 wrote:

1. Buy a hi-point c-9. Do the mag tweeks that you find online. only load the mags to 5 rounds for the first 500.

2. Note the 2-5% failure to feed jamming that takes place anyway.

3. Call hi-point and tell them your c-9 jams to much. They will mail you a box and can mail it back to you directly. They will pay the postage and charge you nothing.

4. You will get back a gun that is as reliable as a glock, IMO, along with some free mags.

They rework everything and polish the feed ramp, and it is really well done. Hi-points are basically crap new, but if you shoot them some and have hi point rework them they are superb.

Ive done this about 6 times now with guns I intended to use as back up guns, fishing box guns and truck guns. ALL 6 have had 0, let me repeat, 0 malfunctions after getting them back from hi-point.

I even carry them sometimes. I view it as a 115 dollar glock with a little hassle.

Click to expand...

I'd rather take the money I'd spend on 500 rounds and buy a gun that works well and handles well the first time, like a Bersa.

Click to expand...

Dont go against hi-point, otherwise you're a troll and one of our alts posting.

I find it funny though, how iroc is posting maturely/intelligently, then you have idiots posting about teddybears. It's nice to know you can have a debate/argument and have it conducted maturely here.....oh wait. So congratulations, you've managed to not discredit the "troll", but only discredit yourself and only make yourself look foolish.

*golf clap*

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All I've got to say is that I've fired about 700 rounds through my JHP 45, and have had 2-3 jams during the break in period, and those were with S&B ammo. Once I went back to using Blazer (Brass or Aluminum), the jams stopped and the gun worked as flawlessly as ever. The gun is as accurate as I am, if not more so. If I ever had any issue with it, I'd send it back ($5 shipping), get excellent service, and a free mag for my trouble. I don't have an issue with this situation.

Why have such a huge problem with something that isn't your concern? You don't like it, fine, say so, and move on. I do like the firearm, and have PRACTICAL experience to back up my feelings on this. I carry this gun every day, and trust it to defend myself and others. Your bashing of something you have no experience with, or have no real investment in, simply shows severe immaturity, and if all you have to say on this forum is how much you hate someone else's choices, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.



:banghead:

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Still wrong!

With a careful examination of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_of_May_1808...



If I may speak for the side of the issue on which I find myself... We're not ignorant. We know guns. We also know bullshit.

The fact is that the vast majority of pistols will fulfill their duty as a self-defense pistol. "You get what you pay for" is not a fact, and is actually a myth perpetuated by those who shave with Occam's razor. Guns are no exception. There are many good, cheap guns. There are many bad, expensive guns. And there are many good, expensive guns, and bad, cheap guns. The original purpose of this thread, I believe, is that Hi-Point pistols are a good value. Are they expected to shoot 5000 rounds per hour out of the box? Nope! Because no one needs to do this! If you paid $500 for a pistol that can shoot thousands of rounds without a problem, good for you! If you paid $150 for a pistol that can shoot hundreds of rounds without a problem, and has an extra $350 worth of ammo to practice with, all the better! When you need to shoot a BG, all you should need the gun to be able to shoot is 3 or 4 rounds. Which goes back to what I said about how the vast majority (if not all) pistols will fulfill their duty as a self-defense pistol.

On a side note, I think some of the abrasiveness of your "ahhh plastic guns!" argument is that it echoes the "junk gun" gun grabbers.

Hmpf, I wonder if they can build a feature into OCDO that doesn't let new members post in the "Selecting a Handgun" forum until they've hit 100 posts in the other forums and haven't been banned yet. This is a site about open carry, not guns, although guns are an interesting side topic.

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I had lengthy point by point post prepared but instead instead of posting it, I am going to bite my tongue and I'll just say +10 to imperialism2024's post above.

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DreQo wrote:

iroc192 wrote:

Think about how cheap it would be if we let china make it? 20-30$

I mean honestly, who wants a gun where the bullets groove the feed ramp?

The metal the used is referred to by auto enthusiasts as "white metal".
If you don't know what that is, call around. Ask them if you should buy rims made out of it, or a crank, or anything for that matter.

It's brittle x5.

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 :banghead:

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Here, let me put what I learned in Metallurgy and Processes of Industry to use....

The Wiki article Iroc posted listed the chemical composition of the metal he claims a HiPoint is made of.

This pot-metal article goes on to list the metals used in an interesting zinc alloy, with a bit of iron thrown in.

Only problem? Hipoints test positive for carbon, as well as sufficient levels of iron for them to be classified as steel, with little to no zinc.

The wiki article Iroc links shows a material that is made from 95% zinc, and NO carbon.

So, in short, Iroc is full of s:cuss::cuss::cuss:.


http://xkcd.com/54/

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Yeah, I'm double-posting, but I have a resort to get back to.

iroc192 wrote:

That is how the zinc-cast anything. Aka Die-cast

That is the zinc-cast alloy that is regulated by an American department.

Click to expand...

Zinc cast is not the same as die-cast. ZC is a type of die casting.

You can die cast ANY metal, including iron and steel, both of which are comonly used. Hell, automobile engines are die-cast, using a method called lost-foam casting.

Are you going to tell me engines are brittle and will chemically break down in 5 years?


iroc192 wrote:

Their website says it is die-cast.

Click to expand...

Really? Where? I just looked.

iroc192 wrote:

You say it is zinc-cast you say it isn't. ....
Are you on drugs?

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I'd just like to place those two sentences together to see if anyone else likes the trolling, or the irony.

iroc192 wrote:

I've had TONS of experience with aluminum/zinc cast/die cast material for cars.

You pay more for steel, or steel/chrome.

If you buy the stuff from taiwan/china most of it is cast that way.If you buy the stuff from taiwan/china most of it is cast that way.

Click to expand...

Really? Maybe that "experience" you claim with aluminium/zinc is why you can't tell the difference between a zinc alloy and a steel alloy.

Then again, maybe you'd understand that casting techniques are used in the US as well, which you actually said in my next quotation from you.

iroc192 wrote:

QUOTE FROM HI-POINT: In the area of Ohio where we are located, there are many shops that specialize in die casting for the auto industry. We utilize this resource.

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Well, I guess it's a good thing Hipoint uses American casting facilities, and not Chinese/Taiwanese facilities, then. Thank you for clearing that up.

iroc192 wrote:

If you think that they could stand up to the cross gun examination of the likes of glock/S&W/SIG in heat tests, multiple thousand round tests, etc, you have another thing coming.

Click to expand...

"Cross gun examination"? Now you're just making sh:cuss::cuss: up. You know how I can tell? The ONLY search result I can find ANYWHERE for CGE is a link to this thread.

Don't believe me? Google it.

Second, that's ON TOP of the other areas in which I've already pointed out that you're simply making things up, as well as.....

iroc192 wrote:

The metallurgy won't stand the test of time, and varying between hot and cold while shooting does not make this a gun you keep for a very long time, or take to the range very much.

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The METALLURGY? Metallurgy is the study and science of the behaviors, properties, and compositions of metals.

That's like saying the principles of Engineering won't stand the test of time.

Do you even know what you are talking about, or are you just picking big words to make yourself sound important?

iroc192 wrote:

I guess I can throw a hi-point with my die-cast collection, if I had one.

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How about I mail you a dictionary first? I can loan you my Processes of Industry book while I'm at it. You can learn about neat things like casting, various grades of steel, planing, shearing, drawing....


Edit: Someone remind me, I'm going to rip apart that post that Iroc made May 5th, 2008 01:03 am.

I'd do it now, but I need to go back to Bryce. :-D