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Thread: Anybody have some good ideas about retention.

  1. #1
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    I've seen a few police videos. They didn't impress me much. Martial arts are showing how to takea gun away, not retention. Ace

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    If it's a question you want to answer fully and completely, take a retention or CQB course at one of the tactical shooting schools around the country. Videos or an article aren't going to do much but give you a start, and simunitions/paintball/dummyguns in force-on-force would be your best bet to know your body and how to use it.
    -Unrequited

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    There are martial artists that can retain the gun because they really didn't need the gun anyhow. I need some ideas some ideas to work from for older guys that the gun IS their martial art. Yes DVDs would be a more realistic beginning than a $2000.00 course. Ace

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    Here are one old guy's thoughts on retention.

    First

    Every holster I use has some sort of retention device that I understand, that keeps my gun with me.

    I do a lot of field work and I don't want my gun falling out of my holster while I am working out of doors. This is my first thought on retention as I do a lot more work than I do wrestling with bad guys.

    Second

    This I call situation awareness.

    I remember the rule of 7 and I don't ever want to let a threat get closer than 7 yards from me.
    This meanens I have to remain vigilent, and I have to practice.

    In restaurants I select power positions where I can see the entrance, preferably with my back to a wall.

    When walking I stay aware of all around me.

    I practice drawing my gun in one motion that disengages the retention device and bringes it to bear in one motion.

    My mindset is that if and when I draw my weapon, I will shoot.

    I practice pulling, shooting and keepin all shots on target.

    I practice with multiple targets, taking them in the order of their potential danger (nearness) to me,keeping all shots on target.

    For me, the best retention is to stop the threat before it gets to you.

    Those are my thoughts on retention.

  5. #5
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    This I call situation awareness.

    I remember the rule of 7 and I don't ever want to let a threat get closer than 7 yards from me.

    In theory this is great. In practice, most people are much closer than this before you have any idea of the person's intent. It also conflicts with yourlater point....

    In restaurants I select power positions where I can see the entrance, preferably with my back to a wall.


    I like this idea, but in reality, the place is crowded, or the people I am with won't cooperate so I don't make a scene. I always think of Hickok though.

    My mindset is that if and when I draw my weapon, I will shoot.

    If you practice the code of the samurai and cannot sheath your sword without drawing blood and have a 7 yard radius, you are one scary dude!!! You decide whether your fellow citizens live or die at 21 feet!!!! You don't often know much about someone at 21 feet.

    For me, the best retention is to stop the threat before it gets to you.

    Those are my thoughts on retention.

    I find two types of situations common. One where something is not right and the hair stands up on your neck. If I can, I will discreetly have gun in hand at my side and move to a defensible position. When the person sees me, he knows he is at a disadvantage. Can I help you? or Maybe you should call me and we will see if we can reach an agreement... It gives him an out and they always take it. If you try to be a little more than reasonable, it avoids these things, but sometimes it is not really about you.

    The other is at close range and you know that this could go life or death in an instant and if you make a wrong judgement you will just set it off. I have always been able to talk it down. Sometimes it is empathizing with the man and sometimes you must stand up to him to bring him down. Often you are not SURE which is the right choice. Try empathy first.

    Someday, I will get it wrong, or there will be no right, and I will be in a life and death struggle. When someone takes your gun away, they kill you with it almost 50% of the time!!!!! This applies only to reported incidents, and murders are almost always reported, disarmings aren't always so the true number cannot be determined.

    I have some Krav Maga moves to surprise the surpriser, but I was wondering if any other martial art specializes in firearms. Or some new ideas. Or this kind of actual stories of self defence. Ace

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    ace1001 wrote:

    ...... I always think of Hickok though......

    ....If you practice the code of the samurai and cannot sheath your sword without drawing blood and have a 7 yard radius, you are one scary dude!!!** You decide whether your fellow citizens live or die at 21 feet!!!!** You don't often know much about someone at 21 feet.

    For me, the best retention is to stop the threat before it gets to you.........


    * ......Ace
    I really don't think we are far apart.

    I remember Hickok to, and that was why I started to seek a power position in a restaurant.

    An attacker can cover that 21 feet in just over a second. Will I always be able to recognize the threat and stop it at 21 feet? Maybe not, but as you say, to retain my weapon, I must stop him before he gets to me.

    From time to time I test myself.

    Last fall I was working in Wyoming. I was walking throuhg a field and I kept scaring up sage grouse.
    I decided to test my "pull and shoot"

    I had my 1911 .45 ACP on my hip.

    A grouse flew, I pulled and fired and down he went. Test passed.

    As a back-up, I bought a heavy bag in 1986, I hit it 1000 times a day, various punches....just in case.

    PS I may be old, but I'm still 6' 4" and 200 lb and in shape.

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    OK, so some guy you don't know comes up to you and asks you and asks you a question. Sounds innocent enough and looks average, even friendly, then makes a play for your gun. Where do you carry it. What do you do at an attempt from strong side....off side...What about two at once. Ace

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    I always go for the big guy first.

    Some years back, 5 guys came into a gas station where I was changing my oil.

    First off it doesn't happen like in the movies.

    They decided I was their mark. The big guy, (my height about 250) came for me. When the fists started flying everyone else stood back so not to get hit.

    He'd swing and miss and I'd hit. He'd swing again and I'd hit.

    Long - short It ended with me sitting on his chest beating him to a bloody pulp.

    I stood and asked the rest who else wanted some of me.... nobody did. I told them to get him out of there or I'd kill him, and they did.

    I grew up rough. I learned early on that bully's are cowards. They don't want to get hurt.

    One time when I was in 7th grade 3 Sr's grabbed me in the boy's restroom. They were going to flush my head down the toilet. I was barely 100 lb, but it didn't happen. They left me alone and went after easier pray.

    Hit fast, often and go for broke...he who hesitates IS lost and NEVER FIGHT FAIR.

    Again back to mindset. I am a nice guy, who wouldn't hurt a fly, BUT threaten me or mine and I and I am ready willing and able to kill, to stop the threat. I will not stop until the threat stops.

  9. #9
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    Have you thought about a Bianchi 82 AutoLok Autorention Holster?

    http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2965.php :celebrate

  10. #10
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    glock37 wrote:
    Have you thought about a Bianchi 82 AutoLok Autorention Holster?

    http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2965.php :celebrate
    Have the Bianchi with Autolok for my 1911. Love it.

    Almost impossible for bad guy to get my gun from that holster.

    Bought a shoulder holster at copsplus. good place to shop.

  11. #11
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    Good to hear, I hope the 4584 Evader I just picked up works as well as yours.
    http://www.bianchi-intl.com/product/...xtModelID=4584

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    Looks like the same system.

    With practice you sweep the lever as you draw the gun. All in one motion.

    The position of the lever is such that your middle finger works great for this, in the drawing motion.

    If you try to get to the lever from any other angle, ie. a bad guy, the gun stays locked in the holster.

    I like it much better than my holsters with a thumb break.

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    Anything like it for a snubby revolver? Taurus 85. Ace

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    I'm thinking of an inside the pants holster for small of the back. The lever would not even be visible. Ace

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    I don't know. They are very weapon spacific. When I bought mine there were only a few, but they are adding new ones all the time. If they make one for the Taurus 617, I will buy it.

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