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Thread: Open Carry Laws

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    Hey people im from utah and im coming into vegas tomarrow for the weekend. I was just wondering what the rules are and places off limit to carry in vegas and surrounding areas. I do not have a CCW. Also wondering what are rules on open carry in car. Also wondering if I can carry fully loaded or do I have to israeli carry since I do not have CCW. Thanks for the info.

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    Well, I'll let our Vegas brethren chime in for Vegas, but in Nevada you can OC in your car on your hip or conceal in your car WITHOUT a permit, as long as it's not on your person. And yes, you can carry loaded, cocked and locked, whatever suits you and your particular gun. I always have one in the pipe.





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    Open car carry is fine in Las Vegas.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf
    This pertains to permit holders but applies to OC as well.

    You can even have it loadedin the glove box.
    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-202.html
    Scroll down to Weapons and Concealed firearms.


    EDIT:
    typo
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    You can OC fully loaded and ready to go, one trigger pull away from a bang. No license necessary. You can OC in your car or conceal it in gloveboxes behind seats or whatever makes you happy, as Bob says.

    I believe the only rule in LV and all of clark county(not totally sure) is that if you are there for 60 days you must register your gun.

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    Also be aware that any property owner/lease holder, or their representative, may ask you to leave or to check your gun if they provide for that and you must comply. Most casinos in Vegas will not allow you to open carry on their property. Have fun!

    Ken

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    Question. According to the following law:

    NRS 202.3653 Definitions. As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:

    1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

    Now to me, carried UPON a person meansa holster or device or a pocket that is attached to or worn by the person. Carried in a backpack, bag or purse that is not attached to a person would be carried BY the person, but not necessarily UPON the person. I know semantics, but there it is.

    Thoughts?



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    Well, I'm not sure. If you buy a gun from a gun dealer, they come in a case. I would say from a distance even a gun personmightnot be able to tell the difference between how a gun case and a tool case looked, and the average joe couldn't tell the difference if it said Ruger on it in big letters. If it were taken to the extreme, that would make everyone who hasever carried a gun out of a store in a case on the way to their vehicle/other destination (probably everyonewho has ever bought a gun) a category C felon.

    Despite the semantics, I'm not sure whether or not they'd buy the argument if you had the gun concealed in a purse.

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    Yep, but sometimes all it takes is ONE word to get some guy that deserves to be punished off on a technicality. I would hope the same criteria would allow someone to further protect themselves.

    According to the wording of the law, even an unloaded weapon in a case WOULD be considered concealed, as there is no exeption or provision made for transporting to and from a gun range or hunting area, as there is in other states.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3653

    Now that then begs the question, what's the difference between a gun in a case going to the range or in a purse/briefcase?

    Technically NOTHING!



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    BobCav,

    IMHO you are basically correct. However, I think that in practice the difference between walking down the Strip with your pistol in a fanny pack around your waist, being arrested for something unrelated, and being charged with violating the CC law, and carrying a range bag from your car into the range; is that for the first, you go to jail, and for the second you don't.

    Wow, what a convoluted sentence.

    Ken

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    Agreed. While granted, by the letter of the law, both would be really considered "concealed", I think that it has to do more with intent. When you stick it in a purse or "man bag" (aka fannie pack), you are intending to conceal that you are carrying a weapon. In a gun case, you are more intending it for transportation.

    just my 2 cents

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    Yep, Ken and Dave I do agree that intent has everything to do with it. I was justnitpicking the wording of the lawand I would call a fanny pack that is fastened to your body as being "UPON" your person, while a purse or briefcase are not. According to Merriam-Webster, the word UPON simply means ON. I would say that means it reamins in your posession without having to be held.

    I would also submitthat the CC in a vehicle law also has some bearing. I can legally CC in thecenter console of my car as long as it's not "ON" (UPON) my person, even though it is still within easy reach and likelymore readilyaccessible than in a briefcase or purse!

    I wonder if anyone has ever gotten off on that little precedent setting "technicality"?

    Since laws only tell you what you CAN'T do, you can't possibly "except" every possible lawful option so if it's not there, it must be legal, as is the case with Open Carry! So it's clearly illegal to CC without a permit if it'sUPON your person in a pocket, in your pants, in a concealed holster, fanny pack that is fastened to your body, etc. Anything that is attached to you somehow. (Define UPON? THe code doesn't)

    But by the wording, if carrying in a case to a range is NOT ILLEGAL, what is the difference (under the wording of the law) between carrying in a case to the range or in a briefcase? There is none. That is probably why many states to have a provision or "exception" for that. The Virginia code, 18-2.308is clear in that it states "A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, "

    Big difference between "upon"and "about his person, hidden from common observation", legally speaking.

    sheesh......OC is just soooo much easier!

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    Or get a Concealed Firearms Permit. It does not preclude open carry, but makes you legal for sure if you find yourself in any of those situations.

    Ken

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    Yep. And that's the only reason I ever got a permit for VA!I'm applying for my FL non-res permit that will allow carry in Nevada and scheduling the course for the Utah permit as well.

    And if in examining the law we can see how it could be improved, more the better! More citizens need to get involved and stop relying solely on their legislators. We've all seen what a mess that can be...

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    in recent trips I was nervous to open carry, to many new residents from the other side of the sierra, thats overafter thiswinter when Florida & Nevada signed up for reciprocity. I will open carry in the desert, I love strapping on the hog leg. its a bit heavy, but itmakes trip all worth while
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    BobCav wrote:
    Yep. And that's the only reason I ever got a permit for VA!I'm applying for my FL non-res permit that will allow carry in Nevada and scheduling the course for the Utah permit as well.

    And if in examining the law we can see how it could be improved, more the better! More citizens need to get involved and stop relying solely on their legislators. We've all seen what a mess that can be...
    Bob, If you are a Nevada resident you must have a Nevada permit to conceal in Nevada.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3688: 2. A person who possesses a permit to carry a concealed firearm that was issued by a state included in the list prepared pursuant to NRS 202.3689 may not carry a concealed firearm in this State if the person:

    (a) Becomes a resident of this State; and

    (b) Has not been issued a permit from the sheriff of the county in which he resides within 60 days after becoming a resident of this State.

    ------------------------------

    Ken

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    Already thought about that and it's not an issue because I'mnot a resident. We maintain domicile here, but maintain residency in VA, just here temporarily (3 months for the wife's job). Don't even have to get a new D/L!



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    CowboyKen wrote:
    Or get a Concealed Firearms Permit. It does not preclude open carry, but makes you legal for sure if you find yourself in any of those situations.

    Ken
    I got a concealed permit for two reasons:

    1.) Carry in casinos without hassle.

    2.) Not become a criminal if my clothing (especially jacket) accidentally conceals my OC firearm.

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    BobCav wrote:
    Yep. And that's the only reason I ever got a permit for VA!I'm applying for my FL non-res permit that will allow carry in Nevada and scheduling the course for the Utah permit as well.

    And if in examining the law we can see how it could be improved, more the better! More citizens need to get involved and stop relying solely on their legislators. We've all seen what a mess that can be...
    Careful! I thought so too...


    BUT, the law says that if a resident of Nevada, you must have a Nevada CCW permit. If you are a non-resident, the FL or UT permits are OK, but as a resident, the other state's permits do not legally allow you to CC here.

    Tim


    EDITED: Oops didn't read far enough. Are you retired? Is your retirement income taxed as Virginia income?



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    Yep, my mil retirement is taxed in VA. Nevada has no Mil Retirement tax, but for the 3 months, it's not worth it becauseif we claim residency hee, Rosana loses that tax free per-diem and travel pay that's worth MUCH more than a little tax break on the retirement!

    Since we'redomiciled hereand taxed in VA we're still legally Virginia residents temporarily domiciled in Nevadawe're fine and the FL permit will still count. My DL is VA and my carmaintains the VA registration and insurancedue to it being just a temporary job here. Already checked with both DMV's.

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    BobCav wrote:
    Question. According to the following law:

    NRS 202.3653 Definitions. As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:

    1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

    Now to me, carried UPON a person meansa holster or device or a pocket that is attached to or worn by the person. Carried in a backpack, bag or purse that is not attached to a person would be carried BY the person, but not necessarily UPON the person. I know semantics, but there it is.

    Thoughts?

    Perhaps this will help:








    STATE OF NEVADA
    OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
    [size=]
    Protecting Citizens, Solving Problems, Making Government Work[size=]


    [size=

    ]

    OPINION NO. 93-14 CRIMINAL LAW; FIREARMS; WEAPONS: The language of NRS 205.350 would be narrowly construed to include only those concealed weapons which are actually on the person or in a container carried by the person. [size=]

    Carson City, June 21, 1993 [size=]

    Mr. Ben Graham, Deputy District Attorney, Clark County District, Attorney's Office, 200 S. Third Street - Seventh Floor, Las Vegas, Nevada 89155 [size=]

    Dear Mr. Graham: [size=]

    This is in response to your opinion request regarding construction of Nevada's concealed weapon statute. [size=]


    QUESTION [size=]

    What constitutes carrying a concealed weapon? [size=]

    NRS 202.350 states in part: [size=]

    1. It is unlawful for any person within this state to: . . . . [size=]

    (b) Carry concealed upon his person any: [size=]

    (1) Explosive substance, other than ammunition or any components thereof; [size=]

    (2) Dirk, dagger or dangerous knife; [size=]

    (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or [size=]

    (4) Knife which is made an integral part of a belt buckle. [size=]


    FACTS[size=]

    The language of your opinion request suggests that your main inquiry deals with the proximity of the weapon to the person. Your letter states: [size=]

    A weapon carried on the person is obvious. The question gets more complicated with a weapon in a purse, briefcase, carry-on luggage and such when it is in fact carried by an individual. Place those containers on the floor next to the person. Put the same container in the passenger portion of a vehicle, the weapon in the glove box, console, under the seat? [size=]

    Your letter refers to several different scenarios and situations regarding the proximity of the weapon under which application of NRS 205.350 might be urged. [size=]


    ANALYSIS[size=]

    Our research has not revealed any case in which the Nevada Supreme Court has interpreted the precise language of NRS 202.350. However, as noted below, that language would have to be strictly construed. If the legislature's desire is to expand the statute to cover circumstances where a concealed weapon is immediately accessible, the language, such as "concealed on or about his person" would be required. [size=]

    Penal statutes are subject to strict construction, Sheriff v. Smith, 91 Nev. 729, 542 P.2d 440 (1975), and "a statute which either forbids or requires the doing of an act in terms so vague that men of common intelligence must necessarily guess at its meaning and differ as to its application, violates the first essential of due process." Sheriff v. Luqman, 101 Nev. 149, 155, 697 P.2d 107 (1985) (quoting Connally v. General Constr. Co., 269 U.S. 385, 391 (1926)). See Bradvica v. State, 104 Nev. 475, 477, 760 P.2d 139 (1988). [size=]

    Thus a narrow interpretation of the applicable language of NRS 205.350 is appropriate. People v. Pugach, 204 N.E.2d 176 (N.Y. Ct. App. 1964). A gun discovered in a briefcase being carried by a defendant was "concealed upon the person" and was within a statute proscribing carrying weapons concealed upon the person. A hand gun concealed in a suitcase and carried by a man is sufficiently "upon his person" to constitute a violation under a statute making it a misdemeanor to carry a concealed weapon on the person. People v. Dunn, 132 Cal. Rptr. 921, 922 (Cal. Ct. App. 1976). The phrase "upon the person" means that an article is either in contact with a person, or is carried in the clothing. Commonwealth v. [size=]

    Linzetti, 97 Pa. Super. 126 (1929). The word "upon" signifies close contact. A loaded revolver underneath a cushion in the rear seat of an automobile on which the defendant was sitting was not "upon the person," so defendant's conduct was not within the meaning of an act prohibiting carrying a deadly weapon concealed "upon the person." Id. Thus the phrases "concealed upon person," "upon his person," and "upon the person" have been interpreted to include weapons that are in contact with the individual or are being carried within a container by an individual. [size=]

    On the other hand, language such as "concealed on or about person" or "concealed on or about his person" has been interpreted to extend the proximity of the weapon necessary to constitute a violation of the statute. In State v. Scanlan, 273 S.W. 1062 (Mo. 1925), where the indictment charged the defendant with carrying a weapon concealed about his person, the jury was permitted to find him guilty if he carried the deadly weapon concealed upon his person since the word "about" includes everything included in the word "upon" and may, in addition, include much more. The words "on or about the person" have been applied to weapons concealed in such proximity to the person so as to be convenient to access and within immediate physical reach. Hampton v. Commonwealth, 78 S.W.2d. 748, 749 (Ky. 1934). See also Prello v. State, 168 N.E. 135, 137 (Oh. 1929); Collier v. Commonwealth Ky., 453 S.W.2d 600, 601 (Ky. 1970). A loaded pistol locked in a glove compartment of an automobile which the defendant owned and was driving was "concealed on or about the person" of the defendant as defined by a concealed weapon statute. State v. Goodwin, 169 N.W.2d 270, 273 (Neb. 1969). It does not appear that the word "about" is always interchangeable with "on." See W. M. Moldoff, Annotation, Offense of Carrying a Concealed Weapon as Effected by Manner of Carrying or Place of Concealment, 43 A.L.R.2d 492, § 4(d) (1955). To violate a statute prohibiting carrying firearms "concealed on or about the person," the weapon must be actually concealed on the person or in such close proximity that it can be readily used as though on the person, without appreciable change in his position. See People v. Liss, 94 N.E.2d 320, 322-23 (Ill. 1950). [size=]

    Obviously, each factual situation will be different and may be interpreted differently according to language used in the statute. It seems relatively clear that the use of the words "on or about his person" extends the area from which the defendant could obtain the weapon. However, this language has limitations as well. In one case, the evidence showed that the defendant was riding in a wagon in which there were two other persons. A quarrel arose between the defendant and one of the others. The defendant took a pistol from a satchel under the seat. These facts were not sufficient to warrant a conviction of carrying a pistol "concealed on or about his person." Commonwealth v. Sturgeon, 37 S.W. 680 (Ky. 1896). There was no evidence as to whom the satchel belonged. There was no evidence as to who placed it in the wagon, or to whom the wagon belonged. Id. Obviously, various other factors need to be considered in determining whether a concealed weapon is "about" a person. However, that inquiry is beyond the scope of this opinion. [size=]


    CONCLUSION[size=]

    It is our opinion that the language of NRS 202.350 would be narrowly construed to include only those concealed weapons which are actually on the person or in a container carried by the person. [size=]


    Sincerely,

    FRANKIE SUE DEL PAPA
    Attorney General

    By: ROBERT E. WIELAND
    Deputy Attorney General[size=]
    [size=]








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    So then based on this letter, even carrying a gun out of a store in its case is carrying concealed.

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    Varminter, thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for and that certainly clears it up. However,without an exception to the law, as Vegas_Dave said: carrying in a case from your car to a range is technically and as defined, legally "concealed".

    While I'm all for fewer laws (and more good men), I don't like to leave certain things open to the "interpretation of anyone". I'd rather have the exception spelled out. Right is right.

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    domicile/residency

    on the old packing dot org site, this subject was discussed in great lengtht, one can have residence in two states, this is even mentioned by the BATF. one can not vote in two states but you can purchase firearms if you are a resident in two different states. there is legal precedent for this, plus if bob decided he wanted to go to Kalifornia for the day or utah, every thirty days then he would not be in Nevada 90 daysconsecutively

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    So as I continue to cause my eyes to bleed while reading through NRS, I found NRS 171.123 regarding temporary detention of a suspect (aka Terry stop).

    Well, right below is NRS 171.1232, which reads as follows:

    NRS 171.1232 Search to ascertain presence of dangerous weapon; seizure of weapon or evidence. 1. If any peace officer reasonably believes that any person whom he has detained or is about to detain pursuant to NRS 171.123 is armed with a dangerous weapon and is a threat to the safety of the peace officer or another, the peace officer may search such person to the extent reasonably necessary to ascertain the presence of such weapon. If the search discloses a weapon or any evidence of a crime, such weapon or evidence may be seized.
    2. Nothing seized by a peace officer in any such search is admissible in any proceeding unless the search which disclosed the existence of such evidence is authorized by and conducted in compliance with this section.

    The section I bolded is what concerns me. There is no reference in this entire Chapter to RETURNING seized property. So, is this a loophole that weapons may be seized during ANY terry stop, even if that stop results in no probable cause for arrest?

    Notice the bolded text makes clear distinction between "evidence of a crime" and the blanket "a (any) weapon".

    Not a pessimist, just trying to understand loopholes that might need fixed.

    Tim



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    1. If any peace officer reasonably believes that any person whom he has detained or is about to detain pursuant to NRS 171.123 is armed with a dangerous weapon and is a threat to the safety of the peace officer or another,
    Key to this, is "reasonably believes is armed AND reasonably isa threat".

    Armed, yep! (duh..) Threat? Define threat.Threaten with a weapon? Absolutely not. Believe me, if I'm Terry Stopped and my weapon is siezed, my recording and witness testimonies will reveal that I was NOT threatening andif all three aren't met, it's departmental retraining time for them and lawsuit time for me!

    Here's the catch...the Police will ALWAYS AND FOREVER say the judgement of one of their "finest" is ALWAYS reasonable. (Otherwise he wouldn't have passed, right?)



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