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Any true tales of weapon retention or disarming, or talking down trouble?
- Thread starter ace1001
- Start date
FreeRoy
Regular Member
imported post
Well, back a number of years ago, before Virginia's change to Shall Issue, I had such an incident.
Was transporting my UNNLOADED .38 Special, riding my bicycle, after dark along a Fan District seat, when a car with several idiots in it yelled at me while driving by. I insulted them right back, which admittedly wasn't the brightest thing to have done (but I was young and dumb).
The car swerved in to block my progress, and the guy in front-right jumped out. He said something about kicking my hippie a__. Then I pushed the hem of my jacket back and put my hand just above the butt of the gun . . . they left, real quick.
Well, back a number of years ago, before Virginia's change to Shall Issue, I had such an incident.
Was transporting my UNNLOADED .38 Special, riding my bicycle, after dark along a Fan District seat, when a car with several idiots in it yelled at me while driving by. I insulted them right back, which admittedly wasn't the brightest thing to have done (but I was young and dumb).
The car swerved in to block my progress, and the guy in front-right jumped out. He said something about kicking my hippie a__. Then I pushed the hem of my jacket back and put my hand just above the butt of the gun . . . they left, real quick.
imported post
When i was stationed in Alaska, i was leaving a restaurant at about 2 am. as i was digging for my keys, i was approached from behind (kid was hiding behind a dumpster), and turn around to face the threat. he says "keys and wallet, now", and points a gun at me, right about chest level. mistake on his part. (a little history about me, i've trained for a few years in akido, kempo ryu, and combative H2H based on krav magna). as soon as that happened, i side stepped to my right, grabbing the gun with my right hand pushing left, and jerked the gun back towards my right. (this move puts you out of the path of a shot, controls the weapon, and the jerk-back will lock their finger in the trigger guard, and break it when you pivot the grip out if thier palm. it moved themuzzle towards them along their outer forarm, and with the finger still in the guard...snap). i dropped his weapon in the process, and drew my own para 1911, ordered him to the ground, and had another patrion call the police. after all was said and done, the kid was only 16 and it was a BB gun. could have turned out a whole lot worse if he were a few feet away.
When i was stationed in Alaska, i was leaving a restaurant at about 2 am. as i was digging for my keys, i was approached from behind (kid was hiding behind a dumpster), and turn around to face the threat. he says "keys and wallet, now", and points a gun at me, right about chest level. mistake on his part. (a little history about me, i've trained for a few years in akido, kempo ryu, and combative H2H based on krav magna). as soon as that happened, i side stepped to my right, grabbing the gun with my right hand pushing left, and jerked the gun back towards my right. (this move puts you out of the path of a shot, controls the weapon, and the jerk-back will lock their finger in the trigger guard, and break it when you pivot the grip out if thier palm. it moved themuzzle towards them along their outer forarm, and with the finger still in the guard...snap). i dropped his weapon in the process, and drew my own para 1911, ordered him to the ground, and had another patrion call the police. after all was said and done, the kid was only 16 and it was a BB gun. could have turned out a whole lot worse if he were a few feet away.
Japle
Regular Member
imported post
A couple of years ago, I was in the mall with my wife when a well-known moron from work spotted me and decided to have some fun. He snuck up behind me and slapped his hand on the Glock he knew was under my shirt.
Two seconds later, this self-professed Black Belt was on his knees in a wrist lock. Standard retention move. Works fine.
What did I learn? Retention training is damned important.
A couple of years ago, I was in the mall with my wife when a well-known moron from work spotted me and decided to have some fun. He snuck up behind me and slapped his hand on the Glock he knew was under my shirt.
Two seconds later, this self-professed Black Belt was on his knees in a wrist lock. Standard retention move. Works fine.
What did I learn? Retention training is damned important.
imported post
Sorry for what has become a very lengthy reply, but you asked for it. I’ve survived quite a few incidents that could have resulted in serious mayhem, but didn't. I’m only going to summarize a few of them here. None of these would make the news, even on a slow day, but there might be something of value in reviewing how each went down. Fortunately, I’ve never been injured and have never inflicted injury on the perpetrator. In most, but not all, of these incidents, I was unarmed, either because they happened when I wasn’t smart enough to know I should be armed, or because local law prohibited my being armed.
1. Armed robbery attempt (Baltimore City, MD, 1970's). Believe it or not, I talked the guy out of it. I was a college student living on 33rd Street in Baltimore and was going to the 24-hour Laundromat around midnight to retrieve some clothes from the dryer. A young black guy emerged from the shadows and displayed a knife. He said he wanted money. I told him I didn’t have any cash on me (the truth). He went on about how he had been cut by some tough guys over in a nearby white blue collar neighborhood. I replied that place was pretty tough and I didn’t like going there alone myself. He thought it was hilarious that a white guy was nervous about a white neighborhood and seemed to begin to waver in his resolve to rob me. He asked what I was carrying in the paper bag I had. I told him it was Jiff Peanut Butter. He said, “Are you sh***ing me?” I pulled out the jar. He probably thought I had a liquor bottle based upon how I was carrying the bag. He thought the peanut butter was even more hilarious. He said, “You’re pretty cool, for a white guy” and put the knife away. He said he would escort me to the Laundromat, "So, nobody else f***s with you.” This guy went from being my assailant/robber to my personal bodyguard in a few short minutes. He walked me to the laundromat and went on his way. I thought about calling police, but didn’t. I’ve lost sleep wondering how many others he might have assaulted over the years, and whether some of that might have been averted if I had called police. On the other hand, he hadn’t robbed me and hadn’t cut me and the only description I had was, young black man in Baltimore City with a knife. Doesn’t exactly narrow the search down very much, nor was there all that much to charge him with, as a practical matter. I was, of course, totally unarmed. Maryland is not gun friendly in any sense of the word and as a young college student, I was pretty clueless, so as this incident unfolded, I didn’t have much to work with. I could have tried to run, but didn’t. I made a very conscious decision NOT to panic and NOT to act scared. Having nothing else to work with, I also decided to ignore the knife, look him straight in the eyes and verbally interact with this guy as though we were best friends. Nobody robs their best friend, right? Today, I would never go out at such a late hour, and would have rather have had a gun, but I wasn’t hurt or robbed. I’d have to put this one in the win column.
2. Handgun assault (Columbia, MD, 1970's). A disgruntled employee pointed a gun at me one morning from a car in the parking lot. He and 3 other guys were smoking a joint in the car during their morning break. Standard practice for them. He didn't fire, and I kept on walking, thinking the gun was a toy. Later, he said he just wanted to scare me. He didn’t particularly care for me because I was so “straight” and honest and cut my hair too short. Go figure. He either pointed the gun at others, or the other 3 guys in the car smoking the joint with him let the story spread around. I didn’t call police because I thought it was a toy, but police were called, I think by HR, later in the day. They came and questioned the guy. I was told he had a string of misdemeanor drug possession convictions and at least one “possession with intent to distribute”. Despite this (remember, it happened in the drug tolerant 1970’s) police were not very interested. Police said, since he hadn’t shot me, they didn’t have much to charge him with and he’d probably get his gun back if they did charge him with brandishing or whatever. The HR department wasn’t amused however, and he got fired. Frankly my main concern, in light of the unwillingness or inability of police to prosecute, was if he, or any of his “business associates” decided to take any retribution against me for his trouble, as slight as it was. People get killed in MD for calling police or becoming witnesses. Fortunately, the guy apologized to me and admitted he was being a jerk. Said it (losing his job) wasn't my fault. Never saw or heard from him again and his “business associates” never darkened my door.
3. In the first of 2 hot or home invasion burglaries while a college student (Baltimore City, 1970's), an intruder was apparently watching my apartment in the early evening. He would have seen me and a person very similar in appearance to my roommate depart for a local restaurant. He then entered and ransacked my apartment, not realizing my roommate, who worked the night shift as a criminal court investigator, was asleep in his room. He (or perhaps they), took a valuable professional camera set up, binoculars and other electronics. My roommate got up to use the bathroom and walked right by the guy, thinking it was me. The bad guy quietly put everything in a pillowcase from my bed and walked out the front door. Police came, dusted for prints and filed a report. We never figured out how he entered. They found his sunglasses on my floor, left behind when his visit was interrupted by my roommate’s nature call. The sunglasses were the only thing that had a fingerprint on it. Never heard from the police again on this. Months after the incident, I realized I might know the identity of the intruder. A previous roommate, several years prior, had brought over a guy who wanted professional photos taken of his prized pet, a Mohave Dessert rattlesnake (no, I’m NOT making this up). Brought it to the makeshift photo studio in my apartment in a burlap sack. I got a kick out of his story to the effect that he never had to stand for very long on a crowded bus. He said he only had to shake the bag a little and get the snake to move around and rattle. Eventually, somebody would figure out what was in the bag and he’d have most of the bus to himself. This guy made me uneasy and I thought he had the manner of some kind of hoodlum. A little too street-smart or something. But, I wanted the money, so I took the pictures. Other than my roommates and close friends, he’s the only person, a relative stranger, who knew what kind of valuable equipment I had in that apartment. I also recalled seeing two guys parked illegally in a place with line of sight to my front door as I was leaving for dinner. This snake guy, from a couple of years before, could have been one of them. I decided to install a burglar alarm to protect whatever valuables I had left. I had window sensors, pressure sensors under the carpet and an early version of an ultrasonic motion sensor in my “photo studio/darkroom.”
4. In the second of two "hot" home invasion burglaries (Baltimore City, 1970's), an intruder entered my apartment around 3 or 4 in the morning via fire escape and kitchen window. I was awakened by some sound and heard slow footsteps and floor boards creaking. I called out, only to be greeted with silence for a couple of minutes, then more footsteps. Finally, I called out that I had a shotgun and bad things would happen if he didn’t leave (got to keep it clean). Well, as soon as the word “shotgun” passed my lips, this quiet guy became a loud Olympic sprinter, stomping down the hall and crashing into my sink, then crashing into the stove, then crashing into the kitchen table and diving out the kitchen window and down the fire escape. My college roommate slept through my one-way verbal exchanges, but was awakened by the sound of pots, pans and dishes and such hitting the floor. Police said there was a serial burglar operating in the neighborhood who had this exact MO, entering in the dead of night through windows on the fire escape while people were sleeping and quietly taking wallets, cash, jewelry and anything else small and valuable. I never set eyes on the guy and had nothing to contribute as far as a description was concerned. No idea if they ever caught him. And the shotgun threat was pretty much a bluff. I did have a 20 gauge shotgun in the apartment, but it was disabled. And what about that burglar alarm I built and installed after the previous home invasion burglary? It was turned off. It was designed for protecting an unoccupied dwelling, and didn’t have a setting for nighttime/occupied use.
5. In addition to these hot burglaries, I’ve also had 2 cold burglaries. In the first, (Pikesville, MD, late 1970's), Baltimore County police shot and wounded 1 of 2 burglars on my doorstep one afternoon while I was at work. These guys were very clever. I felt secure in this apartment, (falsely) because I lived on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor, the door was heavy steel secured to a brick wall, and had a 3 inch deadbolt. These guys entered my 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment by gaining access to the open space in the roof and kicking holes in the drywall ceilings of a dozen or so apartments. They were there so long, that somebody came home for lunch, discovered a break-in and called police. The crime lab was on the scene investigating and collecting evidence, when maintenance workers at the complex directed police to two guys they didn’t know removing stuff from my building and putting it in a nearby car. When approached by police, one of the guys pulled a .357 magnum revolver and was promptly shot by police. Both survived and were prosecuted. Both had the proverbial arrest record as long as your arm. Both were sentenced to jail, but I never heard how much time they actually served.
6. In another cold burglary (McLean, VA, 1982 or 3), my wife and I were away for a week-long, out of town vacation. We were living in a 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment and felt pretty safe, because it was on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor, heavy steel door set in a brick wall, long deadbolt. Unlike my other 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment described above, the means to access the space in the roof above the ceilings did not exist, like it had in Baltimore. Still, I had computer equipment and other valuables in the apartment. When we left, we turned on a cheap motion sensor burglar alarm my wife had won in a contest at work. The bad guy who broke into this apartment was very clever. The outside walls had decorative patterns constructed by having bricks protrude forming nice looking shapes. The protruding bricks were used by the burglar as a ladder to climb straight up the brick wall to my balcony. I never kept the balcony door locked, because, duh, I was on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor. The intruder knocked over some plants inside the door and proceeded to my little office where the computer and stuff was kept. The alarm went off immediately and he exited the front door without taking anything. When we came home from vacation, a trusted next door neighbor said they heard the alarm, heard the door slam and heard somebody running down the steps. They came in, closed and locked the balcony door, righted the planters and locked the front door with a key we had left them. No harm, no damage, no injury, no loss. Conclusion: Burglar alarm = good thing to have.
7. I had a nasty encounter with an apparently homeless guy at a fast food place (Fairfax City, VA, late 1990's). As I was exiting the men’s room, this guy came out of the restaurant area by kicking the glass door into a zillion pieces. The door frame swung open violently, barely missing me, and this bearded, scruffy, dirty guy came through the door, faced me and stopped. I think he wanted to use the bathroom. He growled at me, perhaps thinking I would get out of the way. At this point in my life, I had wised up a bit and was legally carrying a concealed SIG P239. But I was in a dilemma. This guy had violently destroyed the door and was facing me down, but hadn’t made any overt offensive move toward me personally and wasn’t obviously armed. Nonetheless, I was rapidly going from condition yellow to orange and was prepared to draw the P239 if necessary. He stood only 5 or 10 feet from me and could have closed that distance with a knife or box cutter faster than I could have drawn. I think he was surprised that I stood there staring at him and didn’t run like a screeching chicken. After a moment, that seemed like an eternity, he left. I was on the phone to 911 before he set foot in the parking lot. The Fairfax County VA dispatcher answered me on the first ring, and stayed on the phone with me, but it took the dispatcher over 45 minutes to get the Fairfax City police to answer their phone. Must have been a busy day. Nearly an hour after the incident, 2 Fairfax City units rolled up. The guy was long gone.
8. I’ve survived two car jacking attempts. In the first, in gun-unfriendly Baltimore, City, MD (late 1990's), I had no choice but to run down the two thugs trying to take my car. I was driving north on Charles or St. Paul Street, approaching North Avenue, late one night, around midnight, on the way to a hotel where I was scheduled to teach part of a seminar the following morning. Two guys jumped in front if my car and were attempting to get me to stop. My first thought is that they needed help or something. I then realized that there were no other cars in sight, either in front or behind, and no cross traffic in the intersection ahead. I now suspected their intent was to rob me and take my car and I was immediately upset that I had had to leave my gun at home. Rather than stop, I kept up my speed and headed straight for them. They jumped out of the way at the last moment. I called 911 and explained the situation to the police. They confirmed that I probably had, indeed, just escaped a car jack attempt. However, since they hadn't hurt me, hadn’t displayed a weapon, hadn’t taken my car and I hadn't hurt them, Baltimore City police declined to respond. Wouldn’t even send anybody to that intersection, saying, “They’ll be long gone by the time we get there.”
9. In the second car jack attempt near Yorktown, VA, (2004), I was on the way from my home in Fairfax to a hotel in Norfolk, so I could be at an 8 am meeting in Norfolk. It was very late, about 1 AM, when I stopped at a convenience store in the vicinity of Yorktown, VA to use the restroom and get a candy bar. I was driving a very nice looking Lexus SUV, still with temporary tags. Four characters were hanging around the parking lot (at 1 AM) and at the sight of my SUV, perked up, exchanged some words among one another and appeared to alertly position themselves to make a move on me and my car. As I opened the door, I looked directly at the individual I took to be the leader and brushed back my vest, exposing a SIG P220 in its holster on my left hip. The leader of this band of thugs saw the handgun in its holster and broke off what I am quite certain was an impending attack. Thinking this over later, I should have just backed up the car and driven away, but I had to use the bathroom soooooooo badly, I think that clouded my judgment. They hadn’t hurt me, and hadn’t brandished a weapon, so there wasn’t anything for police to do.
10. While on the way to Tae-Kwon-Do class (Fairfax, City, VA, 1991 or 2), my then 6 and 8 year old kids ran ahead of me. As I rounded the corner of a building, a restaurant near Fairfax Circle, I saw that a gang of teenagers had cornered them and were taunting them. I stood briefly watching the scene and thinking about what to do next. I should note that I was part of the class myself and was already dressed in the martial arts uniform, including brown belt and carrying a practice weapon (basically a long stick). I was about to tell my kids to run for the school and bring the black belts here to help when one girl with the group noticed me, elbowed the gang leader and pointed in my direction. I’ve never seen, before or since, anybody change so rapidly from a confident, arrogant bully to a sniveling coward. This guy fell all over himself apologizing. I’ve also never seen a large group of teenagers scatter and get off the street as quickly as this one did.
All of the above incidents happened to me personally. Pretty impressive list, ain’t it. I don’t know why God has spared me serious injury when others have suffered. In addition to these, one close family member survived a date rape, another survived a sexual assault short of rape, and two others survived a series of about a dozen domestic assaults. My sister, her husband and 2 small toddlers, came home to their suburban Baltimore home one afternoon to find the house riddled with over 100 bullet holes; a drug/gang related incident where the bad guys shot up the wrong house. A casual business acquaintance of mine was murdered in a random shooting in nearby Washington, DC. Unfortunately, I could go on. There are several common threads and a few lessons I’ve learned that I would like to point out:
Sorry for what has become a very lengthy reply, but you asked for it. I’ve survived quite a few incidents that could have resulted in serious mayhem, but didn't. I’m only going to summarize a few of them here. None of these would make the news, even on a slow day, but there might be something of value in reviewing how each went down. Fortunately, I’ve never been injured and have never inflicted injury on the perpetrator. In most, but not all, of these incidents, I was unarmed, either because they happened when I wasn’t smart enough to know I should be armed, or because local law prohibited my being armed.
1. Armed robbery attempt (Baltimore City, MD, 1970's). Believe it or not, I talked the guy out of it. I was a college student living on 33rd Street in Baltimore and was going to the 24-hour Laundromat around midnight to retrieve some clothes from the dryer. A young black guy emerged from the shadows and displayed a knife. He said he wanted money. I told him I didn’t have any cash on me (the truth). He went on about how he had been cut by some tough guys over in a nearby white blue collar neighborhood. I replied that place was pretty tough and I didn’t like going there alone myself. He thought it was hilarious that a white guy was nervous about a white neighborhood and seemed to begin to waver in his resolve to rob me. He asked what I was carrying in the paper bag I had. I told him it was Jiff Peanut Butter. He said, “Are you sh***ing me?” I pulled out the jar. He probably thought I had a liquor bottle based upon how I was carrying the bag. He thought the peanut butter was even more hilarious. He said, “You’re pretty cool, for a white guy” and put the knife away. He said he would escort me to the Laundromat, "So, nobody else f***s with you.” This guy went from being my assailant/robber to my personal bodyguard in a few short minutes. He walked me to the laundromat and went on his way. I thought about calling police, but didn’t. I’ve lost sleep wondering how many others he might have assaulted over the years, and whether some of that might have been averted if I had called police. On the other hand, he hadn’t robbed me and hadn’t cut me and the only description I had was, young black man in Baltimore City with a knife. Doesn’t exactly narrow the search down very much, nor was there all that much to charge him with, as a practical matter. I was, of course, totally unarmed. Maryland is not gun friendly in any sense of the word and as a young college student, I was pretty clueless, so as this incident unfolded, I didn’t have much to work with. I could have tried to run, but didn’t. I made a very conscious decision NOT to panic and NOT to act scared. Having nothing else to work with, I also decided to ignore the knife, look him straight in the eyes and verbally interact with this guy as though we were best friends. Nobody robs their best friend, right? Today, I would never go out at such a late hour, and would have rather have had a gun, but I wasn’t hurt or robbed. I’d have to put this one in the win column.
2. Handgun assault (Columbia, MD, 1970's). A disgruntled employee pointed a gun at me one morning from a car in the parking lot. He and 3 other guys were smoking a joint in the car during their morning break. Standard practice for them. He didn't fire, and I kept on walking, thinking the gun was a toy. Later, he said he just wanted to scare me. He didn’t particularly care for me because I was so “straight” and honest and cut my hair too short. Go figure. He either pointed the gun at others, or the other 3 guys in the car smoking the joint with him let the story spread around. I didn’t call police because I thought it was a toy, but police were called, I think by HR, later in the day. They came and questioned the guy. I was told he had a string of misdemeanor drug possession convictions and at least one “possession with intent to distribute”. Despite this (remember, it happened in the drug tolerant 1970’s) police were not very interested. Police said, since he hadn’t shot me, they didn’t have much to charge him with and he’d probably get his gun back if they did charge him with brandishing or whatever. The HR department wasn’t amused however, and he got fired. Frankly my main concern, in light of the unwillingness or inability of police to prosecute, was if he, or any of his “business associates” decided to take any retribution against me for his trouble, as slight as it was. People get killed in MD for calling police or becoming witnesses. Fortunately, the guy apologized to me and admitted he was being a jerk. Said it (losing his job) wasn't my fault. Never saw or heard from him again and his “business associates” never darkened my door.
3. In the first of 2 hot or home invasion burglaries while a college student (Baltimore City, 1970's), an intruder was apparently watching my apartment in the early evening. He would have seen me and a person very similar in appearance to my roommate depart for a local restaurant. He then entered and ransacked my apartment, not realizing my roommate, who worked the night shift as a criminal court investigator, was asleep in his room. He (or perhaps they), took a valuable professional camera set up, binoculars and other electronics. My roommate got up to use the bathroom and walked right by the guy, thinking it was me. The bad guy quietly put everything in a pillowcase from my bed and walked out the front door. Police came, dusted for prints and filed a report. We never figured out how he entered. They found his sunglasses on my floor, left behind when his visit was interrupted by my roommate’s nature call. The sunglasses were the only thing that had a fingerprint on it. Never heard from the police again on this. Months after the incident, I realized I might know the identity of the intruder. A previous roommate, several years prior, had brought over a guy who wanted professional photos taken of his prized pet, a Mohave Dessert rattlesnake (no, I’m NOT making this up). Brought it to the makeshift photo studio in my apartment in a burlap sack. I got a kick out of his story to the effect that he never had to stand for very long on a crowded bus. He said he only had to shake the bag a little and get the snake to move around and rattle. Eventually, somebody would figure out what was in the bag and he’d have most of the bus to himself. This guy made me uneasy and I thought he had the manner of some kind of hoodlum. A little too street-smart or something. But, I wanted the money, so I took the pictures. Other than my roommates and close friends, he’s the only person, a relative stranger, who knew what kind of valuable equipment I had in that apartment. I also recalled seeing two guys parked illegally in a place with line of sight to my front door as I was leaving for dinner. This snake guy, from a couple of years before, could have been one of them. I decided to install a burglar alarm to protect whatever valuables I had left. I had window sensors, pressure sensors under the carpet and an early version of an ultrasonic motion sensor in my “photo studio/darkroom.”
4. In the second of two "hot" home invasion burglaries (Baltimore City, 1970's), an intruder entered my apartment around 3 or 4 in the morning via fire escape and kitchen window. I was awakened by some sound and heard slow footsteps and floor boards creaking. I called out, only to be greeted with silence for a couple of minutes, then more footsteps. Finally, I called out that I had a shotgun and bad things would happen if he didn’t leave (got to keep it clean). Well, as soon as the word “shotgun” passed my lips, this quiet guy became a loud Olympic sprinter, stomping down the hall and crashing into my sink, then crashing into the stove, then crashing into the kitchen table and diving out the kitchen window and down the fire escape. My college roommate slept through my one-way verbal exchanges, but was awakened by the sound of pots, pans and dishes and such hitting the floor. Police said there was a serial burglar operating in the neighborhood who had this exact MO, entering in the dead of night through windows on the fire escape while people were sleeping and quietly taking wallets, cash, jewelry and anything else small and valuable. I never set eyes on the guy and had nothing to contribute as far as a description was concerned. No idea if they ever caught him. And the shotgun threat was pretty much a bluff. I did have a 20 gauge shotgun in the apartment, but it was disabled. And what about that burglar alarm I built and installed after the previous home invasion burglary? It was turned off. It was designed for protecting an unoccupied dwelling, and didn’t have a setting for nighttime/occupied use.
5. In addition to these hot burglaries, I’ve also had 2 cold burglaries. In the first, (Pikesville, MD, late 1970's), Baltimore County police shot and wounded 1 of 2 burglars on my doorstep one afternoon while I was at work. These guys were very clever. I felt secure in this apartment, (falsely) because I lived on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor, the door was heavy steel secured to a brick wall, and had a 3 inch deadbolt. These guys entered my 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment by gaining access to the open space in the roof and kicking holes in the drywall ceilings of a dozen or so apartments. They were there so long, that somebody came home for lunch, discovered a break-in and called police. The crime lab was on the scene investigating and collecting evidence, when maintenance workers at the complex directed police to two guys they didn’t know removing stuff from my building and putting it in a nearby car. When approached by police, one of the guys pulled a .357 magnum revolver and was promptly shot by police. Both survived and were prosecuted. Both had the proverbial arrest record as long as your arm. Both were sentenced to jail, but I never heard how much time they actually served.
6. In another cold burglary (McLean, VA, 1982 or 3), my wife and I were away for a week-long, out of town vacation. We were living in a 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment and felt pretty safe, because it was on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor, heavy steel door set in a brick wall, long deadbolt. Unlike my other 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor apartment described above, the means to access the space in the roof above the ceilings did not exist, like it had in Baltimore. Still, I had computer equipment and other valuables in the apartment. When we left, we turned on a cheap motion sensor burglar alarm my wife had won in a contest at work. The bad guy who broke into this apartment was very clever. The outside walls had decorative patterns constructed by having bricks protrude forming nice looking shapes. The protruding bricks were used by the burglar as a ladder to climb straight up the brick wall to my balcony. I never kept the balcony door locked, because, duh, I was on the 3[sup]rd[/sup] floor. The intruder knocked over some plants inside the door and proceeded to my little office where the computer and stuff was kept. The alarm went off immediately and he exited the front door without taking anything. When we came home from vacation, a trusted next door neighbor said they heard the alarm, heard the door slam and heard somebody running down the steps. They came in, closed and locked the balcony door, righted the planters and locked the front door with a key we had left them. No harm, no damage, no injury, no loss. Conclusion: Burglar alarm = good thing to have.
7. I had a nasty encounter with an apparently homeless guy at a fast food place (Fairfax City, VA, late 1990's). As I was exiting the men’s room, this guy came out of the restaurant area by kicking the glass door into a zillion pieces. The door frame swung open violently, barely missing me, and this bearded, scruffy, dirty guy came through the door, faced me and stopped. I think he wanted to use the bathroom. He growled at me, perhaps thinking I would get out of the way. At this point in my life, I had wised up a bit and was legally carrying a concealed SIG P239. But I was in a dilemma. This guy had violently destroyed the door and was facing me down, but hadn’t made any overt offensive move toward me personally and wasn’t obviously armed. Nonetheless, I was rapidly going from condition yellow to orange and was prepared to draw the P239 if necessary. He stood only 5 or 10 feet from me and could have closed that distance with a knife or box cutter faster than I could have drawn. I think he was surprised that I stood there staring at him and didn’t run like a screeching chicken. After a moment, that seemed like an eternity, he left. I was on the phone to 911 before he set foot in the parking lot. The Fairfax County VA dispatcher answered me on the first ring, and stayed on the phone with me, but it took the dispatcher over 45 minutes to get the Fairfax City police to answer their phone. Must have been a busy day. Nearly an hour after the incident, 2 Fairfax City units rolled up. The guy was long gone.
8. I’ve survived two car jacking attempts. In the first, in gun-unfriendly Baltimore, City, MD (late 1990's), I had no choice but to run down the two thugs trying to take my car. I was driving north on Charles or St. Paul Street, approaching North Avenue, late one night, around midnight, on the way to a hotel where I was scheduled to teach part of a seminar the following morning. Two guys jumped in front if my car and were attempting to get me to stop. My first thought is that they needed help or something. I then realized that there were no other cars in sight, either in front or behind, and no cross traffic in the intersection ahead. I now suspected their intent was to rob me and take my car and I was immediately upset that I had had to leave my gun at home. Rather than stop, I kept up my speed and headed straight for them. They jumped out of the way at the last moment. I called 911 and explained the situation to the police. They confirmed that I probably had, indeed, just escaped a car jack attempt. However, since they hadn't hurt me, hadn’t displayed a weapon, hadn’t taken my car and I hadn't hurt them, Baltimore City police declined to respond. Wouldn’t even send anybody to that intersection, saying, “They’ll be long gone by the time we get there.”
9. In the second car jack attempt near Yorktown, VA, (2004), I was on the way from my home in Fairfax to a hotel in Norfolk, so I could be at an 8 am meeting in Norfolk. It was very late, about 1 AM, when I stopped at a convenience store in the vicinity of Yorktown, VA to use the restroom and get a candy bar. I was driving a very nice looking Lexus SUV, still with temporary tags. Four characters were hanging around the parking lot (at 1 AM) and at the sight of my SUV, perked up, exchanged some words among one another and appeared to alertly position themselves to make a move on me and my car. As I opened the door, I looked directly at the individual I took to be the leader and brushed back my vest, exposing a SIG P220 in its holster on my left hip. The leader of this band of thugs saw the handgun in its holster and broke off what I am quite certain was an impending attack. Thinking this over later, I should have just backed up the car and driven away, but I had to use the bathroom soooooooo badly, I think that clouded my judgment. They hadn’t hurt me, and hadn’t brandished a weapon, so there wasn’t anything for police to do.
10. While on the way to Tae-Kwon-Do class (Fairfax, City, VA, 1991 or 2), my then 6 and 8 year old kids ran ahead of me. As I rounded the corner of a building, a restaurant near Fairfax Circle, I saw that a gang of teenagers had cornered them and were taunting them. I stood briefly watching the scene and thinking about what to do next. I should note that I was part of the class myself and was already dressed in the martial arts uniform, including brown belt and carrying a practice weapon (basically a long stick). I was about to tell my kids to run for the school and bring the black belts here to help when one girl with the group noticed me, elbowed the gang leader and pointed in my direction. I’ve never seen, before or since, anybody change so rapidly from a confident, arrogant bully to a sniveling coward. This guy fell all over himself apologizing. I’ve also never seen a large group of teenagers scatter and get off the street as quickly as this one did.
All of the above incidents happened to me personally. Pretty impressive list, ain’t it. I don’t know why God has spared me serious injury when others have suffered. In addition to these, one close family member survived a date rape, another survived a sexual assault short of rape, and two others survived a series of about a dozen domestic assaults. My sister, her husband and 2 small toddlers, came home to their suburban Baltimore home one afternoon to find the house riddled with over 100 bullet holes; a drug/gang related incident where the bad guys shot up the wrong house. A casual business acquaintance of mine was murdered in a random shooting in nearby Washington, DC. Unfortunately, I could go on. There are several common threads and a few lessons I’ve learned that I would like to point out:
- Police often can’t or won’t do anything after the fact. Only one of the 10 incidents described above resulted in a criminal prosecution and conviction, and that’s when the bad guy pointed a gun at a whole bunch of police officers. Not a good career move. Indeed, neither the date rape, the sexual assault nor the domestic assaults endured by family members resulted in criminal prosecutions, either, despite police being called in each instance. One of the perpetrators who shot up my sister's house went to jail when his father turned him in. That's 2 convictions out of about 2 dozen incidents. As deplorable as this is, I do have a great deal of sympathy for the police. As a practical matter, they have to catch the bad guy, have enough evidence, and a crime of significant magnitude to warrant their effort to investigate and prosecute. Absent a suspect, a serious crime, air tight evidence, they’re unfortunately wasting their time.
- Bad guys are often far smarter and more clever than we give them credit for, particularly the career criminal. The guys who unconventionally entered my two apartments were quite creative. Some of these guys take to time to carefully plan and think their crimes through, learn the law & the legal system and how to take advantage of them, set up perimeter security and much more. Try and stay ahead of them by looking over your house and other places you frequent to detect vulnerabilities and plan a response.
- The bad guys know where the "gun free zones" are and are going to concentrate their efforts in those locations. Like I said, they're not all stupid. Try to avoid those places, even if it means avoiding an entire state.
- Going out and about late at night is more risky than at other times of the day.
- Be alert at all times. If I’d been oblivious to my surroundings and tactical situation in the incident numbered 9 above, I’d probably have been attacked, robbed and had my car stolen. Perhaps worse. Bad guys don’t like to attack victims who are alert. Alert victims are dangerous to them, so be dangerous!
- Panic and fear do not help you. Stay cool and in control of yourself. If you're lucky, you might be faced with an almost rational bad guy who isn’t too hopped up on drugs, and it *might* be possible for you to talk your way out of injury. If that’s all you’ve got, make the most out of it. Go look up the term tachypsychia on the Internet. There’s an article by yours truly on this on page 2 of an old issue of VCDL’s Defender newsletter (http://www.vcdl.org/defender/Vol7Issue1c.pdf). In a “fight, fright or flight” situation, your brain and body goes into overdrive. Everything seems to move slowly. Some people think this means they are “frozen with fear.” DON’T believe that! Stay aware, keep reacting, MAKE yourself stay in the game. Learn what tachypsychia is all about and how to use it to your advantage should it ever happen to you.
- Fight, flee or resist, but don’t surrender. Several of the incidents I recounted above ended when I was able to credibly threaten my attacker(s) with resistance or deadly force: the shotgun, my car, the SIG P220 and the martial arts weapon in my presumably deadly, competent hands. In the incident with the homeless guy, I’m convinced a confident, unafraid demeanor on my part (backed up by the comforting presence of the concealed P239), unnerved the homeless guy and gave him a reason to turn and leave without escalating the event or attacking me.
- By all means, have a burglar alarm, either electronic or canine.
- Carry a gun everywhere you can. In public, shopping, while at home. You never know when your calm, peaceful day is going to be shattered by some thug. When you can’t carry a gun, have *some* kind of plan. When I couldn’t or didn’t have a gun, I’ve bluffed, I’ve used my car, I’ve talked my way out, I’ve used my brain. NEVER give up!
- Get training from somebody who will attempt to teach you to FIGHT with a gun, not just shoot one.
- Read about deadly force encounters in gun magazines, in books, in newspapers and online. Learn everything you can.
pyite
Regular Member
imported post
Driving home late one night, bartender....its raining. I lived in downtown Hampton, Va at the time and take a shortcut through the ghetto. The road takes a 90 degree turn and I see a big hooptie (caprice, town car, etc...) in the middle of the road. I immediately think "break down" but grab my pistol anyway (it was in the cup holders). An urban gentleman gets out of the passenger side of the vehicle and approaches my window. I had it open about 3 inches bc I had been smoking a cig. I pulls out a knife (no clue what kind - shiny - metal) and says "Get out the car." I point my pistol at his chest and say "No." I could think of nothing witty at the moment. He bolted, tripped over something, got in the car, the driver backed up and hit a chain link fence and took off. I sat there and was all :cuss:, WTF, :cuss:, WTF. Then I sped home. Didnt report it to the police, didnt get the license plate number, there are many hoopties around hampton and I couldnt even tell what color it was. Oh well. Hopefully homey shat himself.
Driving home late one night, bartender....its raining. I lived in downtown Hampton, Va at the time and take a shortcut through the ghetto. The road takes a 90 degree turn and I see a big hooptie (caprice, town car, etc...) in the middle of the road. I immediately think "break down" but grab my pistol anyway (it was in the cup holders). An urban gentleman gets out of the passenger side of the vehicle and approaches my window. I had it open about 3 inches bc I had been smoking a cig. I pulls out a knife (no clue what kind - shiny - metal) and says "Get out the car." I point my pistol at his chest and say "No." I could think of nothing witty at the moment. He bolted, tripped over something, got in the car, the driver backed up and hit a chain link fence and took off. I sat there and was all :cuss:, WTF, :cuss:, WTF. Then I sped home. Didnt report it to the police, didnt get the license plate number, there are many hoopties around hampton and I couldnt even tell what color it was. Oh well. Hopefully homey shat himself.
protector84
Regular Member
imported post
pyite wrote:
I'm so sick of dealing with criminals my entire life that should a similar event happen to me, I'm simply going to empty all 15 rounds into the thug's face and chest, and then drive over the body with my vehicle.
15 rounds of ammunition: $10
Firearm and accessories: $650
Taxpayer dollars saved and one less piece of garbage in society: PRICELESS
pyite wrote:
I'm so sick of dealing with criminals my entire life that should a similar event happen to me, I'm simply going to empty all 15 rounds into the thug's face and chest, and then drive over the body with my vehicle.
15 rounds of ammunition: $10
Firearm and accessories: $650
Taxpayer dollars saved and one less piece of garbage in society: PRICELESS
pyite
Regular Member
imported post
This incident happened probably 12 years ago. I didnt have the same frame of mind that I have now (wife, child, home, responsibilities, etc...). And truthfully I probably had enjoyed a couple of alcoholic beverages before going home. How could you not and tend bar?
Now I never drink when carrying and I have too much to protect. If it happened these days homey's relatives would have been wailing in the streets.
"He was such a good boy!"
:banghead:
This incident happened probably 12 years ago. I didnt have the same frame of mind that I have now (wife, child, home, responsibilities, etc...). And truthfully I probably had enjoyed a couple of alcoholic beverages before going home. How could you not and tend bar?
Now I never drink when carrying and I have too much to protect. If it happened these days homey's relatives would have been wailing in the streets.
"He was such a good boy!"
:banghead:
Ezrider
Regular Member
imported post
attempted robbery
This had started out by my car breaking down. I had walked to my brothers house and let myself in (i had a key.) locked the deadbolt behind me. The attempted robber must have assumed no one was home as there where no vehicles parked outside. As i was waiting for him to get home i was on his computer about 4 feet away from the front door. I hear someone start trying to kick the door in. I then grabbed a golf club that he used to prop an window open. I tried to unlock the deadbolt but it was jammed so I had to ram the door back the other way to get it too unlock. I swung the door open and yelled "fore mother****er.". The guy took off running. I called the cops they never found him.
attempted robbery
This had started out by my car breaking down. I had walked to my brothers house and let myself in (i had a key.) locked the deadbolt behind me. The attempted robber must have assumed no one was home as there where no vehicles parked outside. As i was waiting for him to get home i was on his computer about 4 feet away from the front door. I hear someone start trying to kick the door in. I then grabbed a golf club that he used to prop an window open. I tried to unlock the deadbolt but it was jammed so I had to ram the door back the other way to get it too unlock. I swung the door open and yelled "fore mother****er.". The guy took off running. I called the cops they never found him.
Wangmuf
Regular Member
imported post
Ezrider wrote:
In hindsite, do you think this is the best decision you could have made?
Ezrider wrote:
In hindsite, do you think this is the best decision you could have made?
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
Wangmuf wrote:
Let's let them all tell their stories and not start critiquing, yet.
I think there would be more stories if the title of this thread wasn't so complicated, though. Something like, "True tales of self-defense involving no shots fired" or something.
Markand, that's a remarkable list of encounters you have. I would chalk it up to Baltimore (Charm City, what a joke) but many of them happened in Virginia. You seem to be a magnet.
Wangmuf wrote:
Let's let them all tell their stories and not start critiquing, yet.
I think there would be more stories if the title of this thread wasn't so complicated, though. Something like, "True tales of self-defense involving no shots fired" or something.
Markand, that's a remarkable list of encounters you have. I would chalk it up to Baltimore (Charm City, what a joke) but many of them happened in Virginia. You seem to be a magnet.
imported post
Tomahawk wrote
I've been fortunate, to say the least.
I had hoped this thread would attract some additional stories. I suspect many people come close to some kind of dangerous encounter, but aren't aware enough to even know how close they came to violence. Like my daughter in the parking lot, they don't pay much attention and are never even aware of the situation.
Tomahawk wrote
Tell me about it. Charm City is far from it! Baltimore is a nasty place to live. The list, as long as it was, isn't even complete. A now ex-wife tried to run me down with her car. I stood behind a tree. Three guys who had just robbed a CVS pharmacy were burning rubber straight for me as I was crossing the parking lot. I stepped between some parked cars and wrote down their tag number. I watched with growing concern one evening as my teenage daughter and a female friend were tracked and stalked by several older guys as they walked across a parking lot. My oblivious daughter and her friend drove away before the guys got close enough for things to get intense. And I've been the first on the scene and rendered first aid for dozens of car wrecks and have put out 4 car fires, once having to get a severely injured guy out of the car before it (and he) burned to a crisp. I once tried to figure out the number of times I've called 911 and lost count well over 100. None of it for petty stuff, either, quite a few for serious car wrecks I encountered traveling all over the east coast for business.
I've been fortunate, to say the least.
I had hoped this thread would attract some additional stories. I suspect many people come close to some kind of dangerous encounter, but aren't aware enough to even know how close they came to violence. Like my daughter in the parking lot, they don't pay much attention and are never even aware of the situation.
Daddyo
Regular Member
imported post
Ah, just what I need to stimulate my writing capabilities. Here's one for ya':
About 15 years ago, I was driving a flatbed straight truck (basically a tractor trailer with a bed on it) for my dad. I think I was hauling a part for a rock crusher, though I'm not positive. Regardless, I was motoring down the freeway about 1am with several tons of steel on my back at a governed max speed of 68mph.
I was all alone, nothing but me and the crickets, when I see headlights in the distance behind me closing fast. Real fast. As in only hitting the tops of the hills. I was in the right lane already and was watching to make sure I didn't lose track of him as he passed through the blind spot, but as he drew even with the back corner of the bed he suddenly slowed and dropped in behind me.
At first I figured it was a cop, although I couldn't think of anything I had done wrong. I sure wasn't speeding, but I had been subject to "fishing expeditions" before so I steeled myself for the blue lights. But they never came. After about 5 miles of him sitting a car length or so behind me, I got tired of the game. I knew I couldn't pull away, so the next best thing was to slow down and hope he got tired of it and would come on by. I kept bleeding off speed until I got down around 45, and still he stayed put.
Now I was starting to think maybe there was something wrong with the truck. It didn't feel like any tires were low, but a strap could have come loose of something. I decided to stop and check my load, but at the same time I realized I was in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night with an unknown person with unknown intentions behind me.
I pulled over and eased to a stop, the car following behind like it was on a trailer. Now I was really worried. I hit the parking brake, then the bed illumination and unholstered my stainless .357 Magnum. I unlatched the door with my left hand and reached over to push it open with my right so that I exited the cab 4" barrel first.
Next thing I knew, a door slammed, an engine roared and a early 80's model Mercury went blasting off into the distance.
I went around the truck with a flashlight and inspected all my tiedowns, then finding no problems went my merry way.
Thank you Amadeo Rossi.
Ah, just what I need to stimulate my writing capabilities. Here's one for ya':
About 15 years ago, I was driving a flatbed straight truck (basically a tractor trailer with a bed on it) for my dad. I think I was hauling a part for a rock crusher, though I'm not positive. Regardless, I was motoring down the freeway about 1am with several tons of steel on my back at a governed max speed of 68mph.
I was all alone, nothing but me and the crickets, when I see headlights in the distance behind me closing fast. Real fast. As in only hitting the tops of the hills. I was in the right lane already and was watching to make sure I didn't lose track of him as he passed through the blind spot, but as he drew even with the back corner of the bed he suddenly slowed and dropped in behind me.
At first I figured it was a cop, although I couldn't think of anything I had done wrong. I sure wasn't speeding, but I had been subject to "fishing expeditions" before so I steeled myself for the blue lights. But they never came. After about 5 miles of him sitting a car length or so behind me, I got tired of the game. I knew I couldn't pull away, so the next best thing was to slow down and hope he got tired of it and would come on by. I kept bleeding off speed until I got down around 45, and still he stayed put.
Now I was starting to think maybe there was something wrong with the truck. It didn't feel like any tires were low, but a strap could have come loose of something. I decided to stop and check my load, but at the same time I realized I was in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night with an unknown person with unknown intentions behind me.
I pulled over and eased to a stop, the car following behind like it was on a trailer. Now I was really worried. I hit the parking brake, then the bed illumination and unholstered my stainless .357 Magnum. I unlatched the door with my left hand and reached over to push it open with my right so that I exited the cab 4" barrel first.
Next thing I knew, a door slammed, an engine roared and a early 80's model Mercury went blasting off into the distance.
I went around the truck with a flashlight and inspected all my tiedowns, then finding no problems went my merry way.
Thank you Amadeo Rossi.
MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
imported post
When I was stationed in Texas, someone tried to carjack me in bumper to bumper traffic in the middle of the afternoon near Houston. I was on my way home from the range. He had a large Bowie knife, but I had my Ruger .45...
he approached my window demanding I get out of "His Truck" and I talked him out of the idea when he looked down the business end of my Ruger P 90.
The police STILL took my pistol "to make sure it hadn't been involved in any crimes" and it took me 2 months to get it back.:cuss::cuss:
When I was stationed in Texas, someone tried to carjack me in bumper to bumper traffic in the middle of the afternoon near Houston. I was on my way home from the range. He had a large Bowie knife, but I had my Ruger .45...
he approached my window demanding I get out of "His Truck" and I talked him out of the idea when he looked down the business end of my Ruger P 90.
The police STILL took my pistol "to make sure it hadn't been involved in any crimes" and it took me 2 months to get it back.:cuss::cuss:
N6ATF
Banned
imported post
MSC 45ACP wrote:
MSC 45ACP wrote:
Criminals!
imported post
MSC 45ACP wrote:
The last thing anybody needs is to shoot some bad guy who deserved it, then get your gun taken and be left with nothing for defense. Even dirtbag bad guys have family, friends and "business associates" who might be upset with you. And if the bad guy belonged to some kind of gang, well, I'd sure want something other than my bare hands for defense.
MSC 45ACP wrote:
I've become a believer in the practice of owning at least TWO carry guns that are identical, or almost identical. Same brand, same model, or close to it. I mostly carry a SIG P229, but if that gets taken by police for some reason, I can put a P220 or a P228 or a P226 in the same holster. And if the holster and belt get taken, I have a second belt as well as both right and left hand holsters of the same brand.
The last thing anybody needs is to shoot some bad guy who deserved it, then get your gun taken and be left with nothing for defense. Even dirtbag bad guys have family, friends and "business associates" who might be upset with you. And if the bad guy belonged to some kind of gang, well, I'd sure want something other than my bare hands for defense.