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Thread: Special report: Guns in Virginia

  1. #1
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    Interesting article - seems pretty straight down the middle.

    http://hamptonroads.com/pilot/news/guns

    http://hamptonroads.com/2008/03/tech...ebate-virginia

    Nice slide show!



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    Ah you've beaten me to the punch.

    That reporter says she's not biased, but I can hear the bile in her voice when she speaks, and her writing shows it too in a couple places.

    Interesting that Col. Massengill is singing a different tune that he was last year, saying that an armed student could have stopped the VT massacre.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Ah you've beaten me to the punch.

    That reporter says she's not biased, but I can hear the bile in her voice when she speaks, and her writing shows it too in a couple places.

    Interesting that Col. Massengill is singing a different tune that he was last year, saying that an armed student could have stopped the VT massacre.
    You're right her choice of wording and voice do betray a bias. But at least she's making a decent attempt at being balanced. It can be hard to do.

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    when did we get handguns that can shoot at 4000 FPS ??, I totally agree that she has a bias tone in her reporting .





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    This'll be interesting to follow.

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    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair. For good reasons, we have come to expect biased treatment from the media, but after spending some time talking with Ms Kimberlin and being interviewed by her, it seemed clear she was trying to write a balanced article on a very contentious issue. If we get that much, it will be a very welcome and unusual experience from the media. She understood that there is a clear leftist bias in the press over this issue, and said she was going to make a conscious effort to avoid that. She was pleased and surprised when her editor gave her the go-ahead to write such a series. I got the impression that Ms Kimberlin is not anti gun; she mentioned that her boyfriend owns guns, and she has no problem with that at all. I didn't try to push her for more on that, since she was not there to be interviewed by us. Ms Kimberlin spent many hours researching this issue, and spent many hours interviewing us at some of our dinners, as well as speaking and corresponding with some of us after that. Perhaps others can add their experiences with her. She made it clear she was also going to spend time talking with people on the other side of the fence. For what it's worth, neither Ms Kimberlin nor her photographer Leo Kim seemed the least bit uncomfortable socializing with a dozen (armed) pro gun people, and we enjoyed gabbing for hours with them.

    Let's be honest with ourselves: in any article examining the gun debate we will read things we disagree with or dislike. Try reading her article as if you were Sarah Brady or an MMMer, and you'll be upset with her "pro gun bias".

    I could be wrong, but I really doubt any of the articles will be a slanted, anti gun screeds.

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    Texaschl wrote:
    when did we get handguns that can shoot at 4000 FPS ??, I totally agree that she has a bias tone in her reporting .



    She might have misunderstood me during my interview. I told here because of phyisics, that the fastest a bullet could go is around 4,000 FPS, as the gun powder gasses are expanding at around 5,000 FPS. She might have interpoliated that to mean that handguns (or actually ALL guns) can shoot a round that fast. I didn't get into barrel length, etc. that are required for such speeds.

    I thought I told her that handgun rounds tend to go no faster that 1,300 FPS, with a few exceptions.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair....
    My friend Dutch is exactly correct, while I'll never be as eloquent as he,we've allbeen associated with Joanne Kimberlin for over four months now.I believe she is a straight shooter (nopun intended) and has done her best at stayingun-biased. What we seem to not understand is that she does NOT have the final word about what is printed - herEditor does. We have invited Joanneto our next dining out, this comingTuesday at Primo's Pizza, we view her as a friend and hope she'll make it.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair.
    Would we hear well-researched and fair reporting if this was a First Amendment freedom of press issue? No, we'd hear loud howls about infringements on her rights.

    I'll start considering these things fair and well-researched when they knock-off their psuedo-impartiality and start advocating for this enumerated right asstronglyas they would for FirstAmendment press issues.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote

    I'll start considering these things fair and well-researched when they knock-off their psuedo-impartiality and start advocating for this enumerated right asstronglyas they would for FirstAmendment press issues.
    Ms. Kimberlin is NOT expected to advocate for anything. She didn't endeavor to write an editorial. Her stated purpose in writing the series was to provide as much background as she could for the reading public. If she were seen as an advocate for any specific position, she would be described as biased in her reporting.

    Let's give the series a chance. If I'm wrong about her, then just shoot me! (I'm kidding )

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    Iagree with Dutch Uncle. I read it a couple of times - it's an age thing - and I found it to be non-biased. The 4000 fps quote did not refer to handguns in particular.

    "It's a simple device, really. By modern standards, downright basic. A metal tube. A tiny explosion. A bit of lead that zips through the air at 4,000 feet per second and rips a hole in nearly anything in its path."

    I felt that this quote was connected to the title of the piece "State of the Gun". I sent an e-mail to Ms. Kimberlin, thanking her for her "unbiased" article. We'll see how it goes from here.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Let's give the series a chance. If I'm wrong about her, then just shoot me! (I'm kidding )
    Range Day!:celebrate

    Sir, YOU get to choose the target.

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    I'll stand by my earlier evaluation.

    Impartiality is just a cover for not taking responsibility, or starting or continuing a controversy. They're not judges. They can either get the important facts or they can't. They can either evaluate and pass along the important facts or they can't. Its a sort of moral relativism where no fact is more or less important than any other fact.

    Is their goal to provide their readers with the information they need to come to an informedconclusion?

    Their problem is that they are up against a person who has expert knowledge in the field, lots ofpeople actually. Ican judge whether they are doing their job because I have lots more information and do know the importances.

    Its a little like the person who says I can't complain since I didn't vote. Hogwash. Whether I voted isn't the standard. Its whether the official adheres to constitutional principles.

    Whether a journalist seems impartial isn't the standard. Its whether they diligently research their subject and provide the truly beneficial information to their readers.




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    I'll stand by my earlier evaluation.

    Impartiality is just a cover for not taking responsibility, or starting or continuing a controversy. They're not judges. They can either get the important facts or they can't. They can either evaluate and pass along the important facts or they can't. Its a sort of moral relativism where no fact is more or less important than any other fact.

    Is their goal to provide their readers with the information they need to come to an informedconclusion?

    Their problem is that they are up against a person who has expert knowledge in the field, lots ofpeople actually. Ican judge whether they are doing their job because I have lots more information and do know the importances.

    Its a little like the person who says I can't complain since I didn't vote. Hogwash. Whether I voted isn't the standard. Its whether the official adheres to constitutional principles.

    Whether a journalist seems impartial isn't the standard. Its whether they diligently research their subject and provide the truly beneficial information to their readers.



    So you don't feel that the author diligently researched the subject and attempted to provide the truly beneficial information to the readers? Is it also you who decides what is truly beneficial?

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    She must have had to spend hours upon hours to be able to quote multiple gun owners in one article making anti-gun statements usually attributed to the other side. With friends like these....

    At a gun show at fNorfolk's Scope in September, Merlin Scales stood surrounded by tables loaded with weapons. A licensed dealer from the western part of the state, Scales tilted his head toward a nearby collector's display and rolled his eyes.
    "See that guy over there?" Scales said. "He's at every show. And he sells some of the same guns I do, only he charges more. Now why do you think some people are willing to pay more at his table than mine? Because he doesn't have to run them through a background check."
    -----------------------

    Mike and Jemma Barry came to the show with their five children - the oldest 13, the youngest 4. A Marine family, the Barrys had just returned from three years in Okinawa. They felt safer in Japan than in their new home in Chesapeake.
    "We're still in culture shock," Mike Barry said.
    With Mike gone from home a lot, the couple decided Jemma should have a handgun for protection. As they browsed the displays - picking up this pistol or that revolver, feeling their weight and balance - both still struggled with the decision.
    "We worry about the kids," Mike said. "How familiar should we let them get with a gun? Even just walking around here with them - is this bad? Are they getting too comfortable? Can they really understand the damage a gun can do?"

    -------------------------

    Jim Caton wiped fingerprints off the smooth barrel of a classic Colt. Caton, a retired machinist from Virginia Beach, is an unlicensed seller. His specialty is old guns. He loves their history and craftsmanship. He buys from friends, auctions and estate sales and says he sells at two or three shows a year. Rare models in good condition - such as the 1881 Springfield or World War II trench gun - are priced at $2,500 to $3,000. Everyday firearms are sometimes in his mix, priced to move fast. In a two-day show, Caton said, he's lucky to sell 20 guns.
    Caton doesn't want a dealer's license. Sales records have to be kept for 20 years, and other requirements are a "pain in the butt." He said he doesn't think small-time sellers like him cause problems.
    "I use my discretion," he said. "Most people who come to the shows, you see them a lot. You know who's 'right' and who's 'wrong.' I don't have to, but I ask everybody to see their driver's license, and if they're not 'right,' they usually move on at that point."

    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    1. So you don't feel that the author diligently researched the subject and attempted to provide the truly beneficial information to the readers?
    2. Is it also you who decides what is truly beneficial?
    1. Nope.

    2. Of course. And you. And all 2A supporters. How many of us support 2A just because we like to play with our guns? We've seen the scholarship. We've seen the research reports, the statistics. We support 2A because we know it is truly beneficial. Not just a claimed, or invented, or asserted benefit. And having acquired the knowledge that contributes to our certainty on itsbenefit, we are in a position to know, or guess what information is beneficial for others to learn so that they too may defend themselves and contribute to the common defense.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair....
    My friend Dutch is exactly correct, while I'll never be as eloquent as he,we've allbeen associated with Joanne Kimberlin for over four months now.I believe she is a straight shooter (nopun intended) and has done her best at stayingun-biased. What we seem to not understand is that she does NOT have the final word about what is printed - herEditor does. We have invited Joanneto our next dining out, this comingTuesday at Primo's Pizza, we view her as a friend and hope she'll make it.
    An AK-47 with five 30-round clips ($375).

    If there was an AK with five 30 round MAGAZINES for sale for that price it would have been in my gun safe.

    A Bushmaster, like the one the Beltway snipers used, complete with bipod ($1,300).

    This line speaks for itself. She could have said this. A Bushmaster, like the ones used by the Army Shooting team at Camp Perry.

    A Barrett .50-caliber rifle with scope, accurate at one mile ($3,200).

    I would have to see it to believe it at this price.

    What do these guns have in common? They've been banned in a number of states and cities. And they were recently for sale in Hampton Roads, offered up to anyone - no questions asked.
    Naa this won't fuel any anti-gun fires. With friends like this who needs enemies. She very could have said this. An elderly grandfather found the same antique 22 rifle like the one he walked the woods with to teach his grandaughter the joys of marksmanship.

  18. #18
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    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair....
    My friend Dutch is exactly correct, while I'll never be as eloquent as he,we've allbeen associated with Joanne Kimberlin for over four months now.I believe she is a straight shooter (nopun intended) and has done her best at stayingun-biased. What we seem to not understand is that she does NOT have the final word about what is printed - herEditor does. We have invited Joanneto our next dining out, this comingTuesday at Primo's Pizza, we view her as a friend and hope she'll make it.
    An AK-47 with five 30-round clips ($375).

    If there was an AK with five 30 round MAGAZINES for sale for that price it would have been in my gun safe.

    A Bushmaster, like the one the Beltway snipers used, complete with bipod ($1,300).

    This line speaks for itself. She could have said this. A Bushmaster, like the ones used by the Army Shooting team at Camp Perry.

    A Barrett .50-caliber rifle with scope, accurate at one mile ($3,200).

    I would have to see it to believe it at this price.

    What do these guns have in common? They've been banned in a number of states and cities. And they were recently for sale in Hampton Roads, offered up to anyone - no questions asked.
    Naa this won't fuel any anti-gun fires. With friends like this who needs enemies. She very could have said this. An elderly grandfather found the same antique 22 rifle like the one he walked the woods with to teach his grandaughter the joys of marksmanship.
    There Glenn, I highlighted it for you - how do you know what was printed is exactly what she wrote?




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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    SNIP We have invited Joanneto our next dining out, this comingTuesday at Primo's Pizza, we view her as a friend and hope she'll make it.
    Well, you're in a better position to know whether she is an ally or not.

    I would counsel caution. The best exposes are written by thereporter that was thought to be trustworthy.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    I did not catch any obvious anti-gun bias. There were some factual inaccuracies, but overall, the article seemed well-researched and fair....
    My friend Dutch is exactly correct, while I'll never be as eloquent as he,we've allbeen associated with Joanne Kimberlin for over four months now.I believe she is a straight shooter (nopun intended) and has done her best at stayingun-biased. What we seem to not understand is that she does NOT have the final word about what is printed - herEditor does. We have invited Joanneto our next dining out, this comingTuesday at Primo's Pizza, we view her as a friend and hope she'll make it.
    An AK-47 with five 30-round clips ($375).

    If there was an AK with five 30 round MAGAZINES for sale for that price it would have been in my gun safe.

    A Bushmaster, like the one the Beltway snipers used, complete with bipod ($1,300).

    This line speaks for itself. She could have said this. A Bushmaster, like the ones used by the Army Shooting team at Camp Perry.

    A Barrett .50-caliber rifle with scope, accurate at one mile ($3,200).

    I would have to see it to believe it at this price.

    What do these guns have in common? They've been banned in a number of states and cities. And they were recently for sale in Hampton Roads, offered up to anyone - no questions asked.
    Naa this won't fuel any anti-gun fires. With friends like this who needs enemies. She very could have said this. An elderly grandfather found the same antique 22 rifle like the one he walked the woods with to teach his grandaughter the joys of marksmanship.
    There Glenn, I highlighted it for you - how do you know what was printed is exactly what she wrote?


    Ask her to her face I guess and see what she says. One would have to admit she refers to so called assault rifles in her article an awful lot and if those references wasn't put in there by her, then the editor wouldn't have them to selectively edit.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Moreso how do we know what was quote was what was said.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Moreso how do we know what was quote was what was said.
    Years ago a high-school friend of mine set out to change the world by becoming a journalist. He quit within months because his editor told him what to write.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if many editors told reporters what sort of story was wanted. What angle to play up. What information to add. What to delete.

    Space? Can't fit it all in? The quote was too long? Uh, huh. Sounds like a cover for selective editing.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I would have to give this story a D not only for the following lines which show her true feelings. Remember this woman worked at the Daily Worker Press before working at the Pile It so she has to keep her left wing street creds up. But also how some of the sections got long winded. There really wasn't much info in the series that people didn't already know if your interested enough to find out. I'm sure it got a lot of antis fired up though.

    As a result, guns are now cheaper, more available and in more hands. The toll is told in the news: a relentless drumbeat of random violence. (This makes it appear as if every gun out there is used to commit crimes. You also went on to mention several gun crimes in the national news but only one story were a gun was used to prevent more deaths The Colorado church shootings which the woman wasn't acting as a security guard as she stated but was attending a service after her duties)

    Some sneered and snickered at the speeches. Laughter broke out when the gun-control folks stretched out on the grass for a "lie-in" intended to symbolize the victims of firearms.

    One woman rose on an elbow and eyed the gun-rights crowd.

    "How dare you laugh!" she chastised. "How dare you!"
    (makes her look like such the valient crusader standing up those gun rights bullies)

    In the meantime, in Virginia, a firearm can be purchased with less oversight then a used car. (What oversight is there for buying a used car? Oh that's right there registered that's why they never hurt anyone)


    Part 2
    An AK-47 with five 30-round clips ($375). (I have never seen a deal that good if I had I would be the owner)
    A Bushmaster, like the one the Beltway snipers used, complete with bipod ($1,300). (nothing like her using mass murder to pimp papers)
    A Barrett .50-caliber rifle with scope, accurate at one mile ($3,200). (If they weren't available to the civilian market the compant would go under)


    Seung-Hui Cho bought one of his weapons online
    (He actually ordered his extra magazines or clips as she mistakenly calls them on line)

    "At every show, there are guys who come and stand outside and offer money to people bringing their guns in. Half a dozen guys, maybe more. They buy anything they think they can make a buck on, then resell it on the street. I don't trust them."
    (This last line sounds like a dealer whining about being under sold.


  24. #24
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    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    I would have to give this story a D not only for the following lines which show her true feelings. Remember this woman worked at the Daily Worker Press before working at the Pile It so she has to keep her left wing street creds up. But also how some of the sections got long winded. There really wasn't much info in the series that people didn't already know if your interested enough to find out. I'm sure it got a lot of antis fired up though.

    As a result, guns are now cheaper, more available and in more hands. The toll is told in the news: a relentless drumbeat of random violence. (This makes it appear as if every gun out there is used to commit crimes. You also went on to mention several gun crimes in the national news but only one story were a gun was used to prevent more deaths The Colorado church shootings which the woman wasn't acting as a security guard as she stated but was attending a service after her duties)

    Some sneered and snickered at the speeches. Laughter broke out when the gun-control folks stretched out on the grass for a "lie-in" intended to symbolize the victims of firearms.

    One woman rose on an elbow and eyed the gun-rights crowd.

    "How dare you laugh!" she chastised. "How dare you!"
    (makes her look like such the valient crusader standing up those gun rights bullies)

    In the meantime, in Virginia, a firearm can be purchased with less oversight then a used car. (What oversight is there for buying a used car? Oh that's right there registered that's why they never hurt anyone)


    Part 2
    An AK-47 with five 30-round clips ($375). (I have never seen a deal that good if I had I would be the owner)
    A Bushmaster, like the one the Beltway snipers used, complete with bipod ($1,300). (nothing like her using mass murder to pimp papers)
    A Barrett .50-caliber rifle with scope, accurate at one mile ($3,200). (If they weren't available to the civilian market the compant would go under)


    Seung-Hui Cho bought one of his weapons online
    (He actually ordered his extra magazines or clips as she mistakenly calls them on line)

    "At every show, there are guys who come and stand outside and offer money to people bringing their guns in. Half a dozen guys, maybe more. They buy anything they think they can make a buck on, then resell it on the street. I don't trust them."
    (This last line sounds like a dealer whining about being under sold.
    You are intitled to your opinion....I guess you don't believe in EDITORS....they must be like the Tooth Fairy to you....

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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    You are intitled to your opinion....I guess you don't believe in EDITORS....they must be like the Tooth Fairy to you....
    And you apparently aren't smart enough to realize that a reporter is going to give you the vibe they want you to have so they can get the story...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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