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Thread: FLINT MEETING A GO!

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    THIS MEETING IS A GO!Seven people have expressed interest in attending the next meeting. Significant others are welcome as well.

    Date: Saturday March 15th.

    Time: Noonish

    Where: McDonald's at 3060 Miller Rd. Flint

    We can decide where we want to eat then. There are lots of restuarants along Miller Road. See map below, A marks the spot, easy on easy off. I will try and park near the rear of the lot. I will have a small poster (OPENCARRY.COM) on the inside of my windshield.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    Hey Venator,

    Do you have any info about the meeting I could pass onto my dad? I recently moved to Missouri and just found out about open carry laws and etc. I told my father about it (He lives in michigan and always thought open carry was a major no-no based on his CPL instructor's info) and he is interested in being "ejumacated" as my family says. He lives about 20mins north of Flint, so I thought this would be a great opportunity for him to meet some "like minded" people and learn some usefull things. Thanks for any info you can provide.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    Hey Venator,

    Do you have any info about the meeting I could pass onto my dad? I recently moved to Missouri and just found out about open carry laws and etc. I told my father about it (He lives in michigan and always thought open carry was a major no-no based on his CPL instructor's info) and he is interested in being "ejumacated" as my family says. He lives about 20mins north of Flint, so I thought this would be a great opportunity for him to meet some "like minded" people and learn some usefull things. Thanks for any info you can provide.
    Tell your dad to come to the meeting, he doesn't have to carry openly until he feels like it. When he get to the meeting we can pass out some info on open carry in Michigan as well as answer any questions he may have. Also if your dad has access to the web, link him this site, lots of good info here. Also see below.


    YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN [/b]MICHIGAN[/b]*

    Any law abiding citizen of the State of [/b]Michigan[/b] who can legally posses a firearm may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law without a CPL. Private property rules override state law in regards to firearm possession.[/b]

    MSP Legal Update Newsletter: April 2007 Did You Know: It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…...

    Sec. 234d[/b] (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act. (2) This section does not apply to any of the following: a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity. b) A peace officer. c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    Those that do not have a CPL when transporting their firearms must do so as prescribe by law.[/b]

    Michigan State PoliceWeb Site. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle? Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’ as: 1 While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2 While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3 While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4 While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5 While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6 While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7 While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.


    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    MRCGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. Therefore, officers should check with their prosecutors before enforcing an ordinance that imposes a general ban on openly carrying a pistol.

    Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm.[/b]

    [size=ADVISORY NOTE][/b][size=: Though this section does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry.]Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.[size=]

    [size=]

    [size=O]pinion No. 7101 [/b]February 6, 2002[/b]:[/b] [/b]A reserve police officer, by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public. ….Research discloses that while the term "brandishing" appears in reported Michigan cases, none of the cases define the term. In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the [/b]Michigan[/b] Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.[/b]

    A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need only give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm.[/b]

    [size=ADVISORY NOTE][/b][size=][size= We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests.]Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employee.[size=]

    [/b]An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a persons with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc.[/b][/b]

    Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002…section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1.That statute prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act,…(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:…c) A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon. d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.


    Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.

    Sincerely,

    Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police

    Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd.

    East Lansing, MI 48823

    (517) 336-6441

    Dear Mr. M

    My office received your inquiry regarding the legality of a licensed CPL holder to open carry a firearm in "Pistol Free Zones." On Friday we received a copy of your correspondence, as Senator Carl Levin's Office referred your letter to my office because your concerns mainly pertain to state issues. As such, I am happy to assist you in this matter.

    My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are licensed a CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter. Apparently, this is a loophole that has been recently identified and no legislation has been proposed to amend it.

    I hope this information serves helpful to you, and please do not hesitate to contact my office regarding any other state issue of your concern.

    Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"



    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in Michigan. You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above. If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.




    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I'm in

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    Like I said in the other thread, I will most likely be there. I might end up CCing if my new holster doesn't get here. It'll be close I think. The only other holster I have for OC is the one that came with my XD, and I don't really like relying on onlyfriction for retention when I OC...:?

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    I came across this forum the other day I live in Saginaw which is about 55 minutes from Flint, if you guys get a set time let me know. I work 3rd shift the night of the 15th so I'd need to know a meeting time so I can set my schedule up. I just found out open carry was legal in Michigan my CPL instructor told everyone it was illegal. I will be concealing my pistol due too this is all new to me, and I'd really like to meet up with you guys and learn the facts.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Adam40cal: welcome aboard, I'm Jerry, a.k.a warchild, I live in Owosso. I think Venator has said noonish, I would guess around 12:00. I just found this site a short time ago myself. Lot of good people here and loads of TRUTHFUL info. Hope to see you there.



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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    adam40cal wrote:
    I came across this forum the other day I live in Saginaw which is about 55 minutes from Flint, if you guys get a set time let me know. I work 3rd shift the night of the 15th so I'd need to know a meeting time so I can set my schedule up. I just found out open carry was legal in Michigan my CPL instructor told everyone it was illegal. I will be concealing my pistol due too this is all new to me, and I'd really like to meet up with you guys and learn the facts.
    Welcome. The meeting is at noon Saturday March 15th. Please come and join us and by the end of the meeting you most likely will be open carrying. The CPL instructors are one of our biggest problems, they often give out misinformation. Like you, we all have been brain-washed, by the so called experts. The truth is out there!
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    adam40cal wrote:
    I came across this forum the other day I live in Saginaw which is about 55 minutes from Flint, if you guys get a set time let me know. I work 3rd shift the night of the 15th so I'd need to know a meeting time so I can set my schedule up. I just found out open carry was legal in Michigan my CPL instructor told everyone it was illegal. I will be concealing my pistol due too this is all new to me, and I'd really like to meet up with you guys and learn the facts.
    Triple post, malfuntion on the website.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    adam40cal wrote:
    I came across this forum the other day I live in Saginaw which is about 55 minutes from Flint, if you guys get a set time let me know. I work 3rd shift the night of the 15th so I'd need to know a meeting time so I can set my schedule up. I just found out open carry was legal in Michigan my CPL instructor told everyone it was illegal. I will be concealing my pistol due too this is all new to me, and I'd really like to meet up with you guys and learn the facts.
    Post problems
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Birch Run gun show tomorrow.... meeting at 12 noon @ Culvers

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...p;postcount=34

    Hope to see some of you there

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    I have two guys that would like to go to the meeting that I work with we are all security guards, and are really interested in finding out the truth. Would it be ok if I brought them along too?

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    I'm a security guard, and I have two guys from work that would like to go to the meeting with me would it be alright if they came along with me?

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    Sorry for the multiple post the screen said it didn't send when it did. Is the forum having problems?

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    Yes and yesAnd your family and friends are welcome. Aw heck everyone is welcome:celebrate

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    My girlfriend decided to sign us up for some outing at her work on the 15th, so I'm really really hoping it isn't until later on Saturday... :?

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I'll be there but I have to leave @1:00

    It's my Grandmothers 90th birthday

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    Just confirming that the meeting is still taking place. I don't wanna show up and nobody be there lol

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    :celebrateYes the meeting is still on for Flint at 12 noon on Saturday 15 march:celebrate

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    dougwg: KUDO'S to your grandmother. DON'T be late. also sounds like a good time for say--- 90 roses! Hope to see you sat.

  21. #21
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    adam40cal wrote:
    Just confirming that the meeting is still taking place. I don't wanna show up and nobody be there lol
    It's still a go. I will be there for sure, unless dead or an emergency gets in my way. I'll be parked near the back believe me you will know which vehicle I'll be in. We can decide where we want to eat when we get there. McDonald's has a cross section ofcustomers and a high turn over, which allows for our message to get to as many people as we can. There are bar and grills along Miller Rd., but if you don't have a CPL you can't carry there. If we all have CPL's we can open carry in a bar. I'll have some information to handout and discuss some things that are of concern in the concealed vs open carry debate. Hope to see you all there.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    dougwg: KUDO'S to your grandmother. DON'T be late. also sounds like a good time for say--- 90 roses! Hope to see you sat.
    naw... she hates getting flowers.... she says all they do is die.

    I know......I'll get her some buttermilk, from a local dairy, they have the best milk products I have ever seen. http://www.calderdairy.com/

  23. #23
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    Not that I expect any problems but if someone has a video camera and wants to bring it along that would be great. I will have a small voice recorder, butif apicture is worth a 1000 words, then video is priceless
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    I have a small digital camera/videothat I had planned on bringing, only takes about 5min of video, but I will have it there. Also, most newer digital cameras nowdays have video capability.

    forgot, it also does have audio capability.

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    I just got called to work tomorrow. Looks like I'm going to have to miss this one.

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