View Poll Results: Should "General Discussion" be an Open Topic area?

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  • Yes, we should be able to discuss anything in Genreal Discussion.

    18 56.25%
  • Somewhat, we should keep it to areas that are at least related to open carry in some way.

    14 43.75%
  • No, if it's not related to the list given in the rules it should be locked.

    0 0%
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Thread: General Discussion Thread Policy Poll

  1. #1
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    While this forum is not a democracy, it is founded on the rights of the individual as protected in our Constitution.

    So, the input of the members is indeed an important aspect ofdetermining the direction this forum takes.

    Please let the moderators know what your opinion is.

  2. #2
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    Personally, I would like to see this be an open discussion area that doesn't necessarily have to pertain to the topic at hand. Regardless of what other forums may be out there, some of us enjoy talking to other particular people from this forum. I think that we should allow this discussion, or at least create an area to discuss off-topic things.

  3. #3
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    I would like this, too.

    But I don't have the gall toinsinuate thatJohn, the board owner, or his moderators, give me free service beyond what they have already offered.

    And I don't have the nerve to express discontent by attempting to overwhelm their decisions via getting up public opinion against them. Using the very board they are providing for free is so over the top it would never occur to me to try it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Knowledge is power. I am not suggesting they provide any more service to us than they have already so generously provided. I am simply suggesting that it would help them in their decision making to know the midset of the members.

  5. #5
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    Democracy being the rule of fools by fools, I hope that the owners make the dissidents squeal like Deliverance's piggies! Do I enjoy OCDO the way it is? Danmdy right I do. Could it be better? Better is the enemy of good enough, IOW don't screw with a good thing.



  6. #6
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Knowledge is power. I am not suggesting they provide any more service to us than they have already so generously provided. I am simply suggesting that it would help them in their decision making to know the midset of the members.
    If you were truly interested in helping the moderators and board owner know the mindset of members, you would havepolitely suggested a poll to them, and asked their blessing on it.

    I think you were upset and decided to use "democracy" as a method of making your point,essentially to overwhelm them with hopefully contrary opinion.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Democracy being the rule of fools by fools, I hope that the owners make the dissidents squeal like Deliverance's piggies!¬* Do I enjoy OCDO the way it is?¬* Danmdy right I do.¬* Could it be better?¬* Better is the enemy of good enough, IOW don't screw with a good thing.
    Do you ever do anything but spit one-liners?

    What's better, a republic where we have priveliged individuals, or an outright dictatorship/monarchy which you've alluded we already live in.

    You confuse me with each post.
    -Unrequited

  8. #8
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    Maybe the forum just needs a rule that the moderators have the final word. No post that contradicts a moderator ona moderation point will be allowed; all such are subject to deletion. If somebody has a problem with a particularmoderation action, they must take it up by PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Knowledge is power. I am not suggesting they provide any more service to us than they have already so generously provided. I am simply suggesting that it would help them in their decision making to know the midset of the members.
    If you were truly interested in helping the moderators and board owner know the mindset of members, you would havepolitely suggested a poll to them, and asked their blessing on it.

    I think you were upset and decided to use "democracy" as a method of making your point,essentially to overwhelm them with hopefully contrary opinion.
    As far as politely suggesting a poll and asking anyone's blessing, it will be a cold day in hell before I ask anyone'spermission to use my freedom of speech. As thisthread is on topic as it deals with discussing OC only or not, I don't see a problem with that.

    The moderators and board owners are grown adults with minds of their own, and they can either ignore the poll or not ignore the poll, that is their perogative. I am not trying to overwhelm anyone, I am looking to see if my point of view is widely shared or not, if it is, then that is just information, if it is not, then that is just information. What, if any, use the information is put to is the sole responsibility of whoever uses the information.

    Suggested Poll

    POLL: Has anyone ever asked for anyone's blessingbefore posting a particular poll?

    Yes

    No

    Sounds silly doesn't it?

  10. #10
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I would like to see all members who joined after 12/31/2006 removed from the forum and all new membership halted. I doubt that will happen. So I spend my time here and accept the forum as it is.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
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    I reguarly participate on three message boards, including this one. Another one is a gun forum, and the other is a pilot forum. When I say "participate" this means I visit the forum generally several times a day. No, I don't have a gazillion posts because I can refrian from posting the same thing that everyone else has.

    Anyway... i've seen this discussion come up on all three boards, and the dialogue is the same.

    As a general rule, I think moderators are a bad thing. I present case studies:

    The pilot forum:
    This is a relatively small forum, with a fair amount of activity. It's hosted by the owner of a pilot supply shop, and he used to have 5 or so moderators. Only 2-3 were "active," meaning they were reguarly moderating, and eventually it got out of hand. Now mind you, there were no illegal acts or instances of total mayhem. But if you said "damn" or "hell" even in the biblical sense, a moderator would swiftly come by and change "Damn! that was a fun flight!" to "[edit] that was a fun flight!" followed by a stern warning not to use any foul language. However, if you wrote "$*@& that was a fun flight!" that would get edited too. Eventually, things just got out of hand, and the owner made himself the sole moderator. And guess what - with the exception of someone that came on and tried to peddle his pilot supplies, I haven't seen anyone get edited, kicked, suspended, banned, etc. The guy that got kicked was basically trying to hawk his gear on this guy's forum - remember it's run by a guy who sells pilot supplies himself, so that's respectable in my opinion. The guy that runs it is very inactive, posting once every few months, if that. It's been running without moderators for about 2+ years now without an issue, really.

    The gun forum:
    This board already had it's fair share of "moderated" everything else/off topic forums, with no cussing, flame wars, etc allowed. Sometime before the 2004 presidential elections, I guess these forums were pretty much busting at the seams, so they created the "minefield" a completely unmoderated board where the only rule was no biching - enter and post at your own risk. This worked well for about a year, until people would post porn (nothing illegal) more often than not, and there were some threats or other such nonsense. Of course, the administrators heard about this and since the whole purpose of the board was to eliminate complaints, they password protected it to avoid the troll problems and posted a strict no nudity rule since the board sponsors complained about the porn. Now everyone minds their own business and I haven't seen a flame war in several years. It's mostly posts about interesting stuff, the ocasional post about a work/family whatever issue, and some gun related stuff. Really, it's the best board to participate in.

    The point i'm trying to make is not about moderators, it's about the fact that people are people and like to communicate. You won't find antisocial people on a forum - it's the complete opposite. As such, you have to expect that people are going to talk about other things, because humans are social creatures. Honestly, if you work for a company that makes and sells "widgets," do you only talk about widgets from the time you walk in the door from the time you leave? No discussions about anything else? I didn't think so.

    It's the whole "birds of a feather" thing. Obviously, we all have an interest in guns and carrying - that's why we're here. However, we all do more than carry guns - I'm involved in aviation as both a career and a hobby, I'm a huge boater, I'm into aviculture (meaning that I keep birds, particuarly parrots) and I'm just getting started in amateur radio and I've been trying to learn to play the guitar. As an example - If i see someone with a blue and gold macaw in their avatar, I'd like to have a bird discussion. Sure, I could take it to PM, but then nobody else gets the chance to chime in. It's the simple purpose of a forum, and I think that trying to keep it all "on topic" really goes against human nature and you'll see the number of active posters decline. Nobody likes to be "hearded."

    Just my .308.

    edited: bcuz uf my gud grammer n englesh scillz

  12. #12
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    unrequited wrote:
    Do you ever do anything but spit one-liners?

    What's better, a republic where we have priveliged individuals, or an outright dictatorship/monarchy which you've alluded we already live in.

    You confuse me with each post.
    Here is a not-one-liner. If you are confused by one-liners then how will we drag y'all through two thousand years of political philosophy? The Democrats and now the Repugnicrats are confused too.

    Have you read and understood Plato's Republic and his/it's comments on the best form of rule and the worst forms of rule (one of which is democracy)? Are you smart enough to knowlegeably disagree with this foundation of Western political philosophy of government? What did Plato say is the best form of government? Here's the Cliff Notes version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato%2..._of_Government

    I have no where alluded that we live in a dictatorship nor monarchy. I do curse universal democracy as tyranny of the ignorant masses.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

    It is a tenet of good writing to write to your intended audience. There are some here that aren't confused. With what level of writing reading are you comfortable or not confused?

  13. #13
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    i think there should be a area where you can talk about anything you want.. rather that means its the general section or a new section call "off topic" or "lounge" there should still be a area for general discussion..

    it's fairly common practice to have such a section on a message board.

  14. #14
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    The one big "eh" for this is the fact Open Carry is used as a "source" for paper's and anti's, like it or not.

    I enjoy "off topic" forums as much as the next person, it just adds a lot of complexity. Especially for a forum that is used as a "source"

    I don't care one way or another, it is the owners call and their final word. I'd enjoy it, but lacking it won't stop me from coming.

  15. #15
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    This is a tough one. While I like the idea of open discussion I have seen these things deteriorate with political and religious tripe that quickly change from discussion to argument.These off topic discussions canconsume large quantities of band width for little gain. Which ever way you decide to go I am for it but I recommend staying true to the name and at least broadly limiting the topics.

  16. #16
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    SNIP...one-liners...
    Doug,

    You and I are in agreement with the idea that a pure democracy is a bad idea.

    I think--and I could be wrong--that what you run into is people who have been inculcated with the idea that democracy is the greatest form of government. They just don't have the backround on it, and therefore don't understand what you mean. Part of it is perhaps that they think they live ina democracy, so when they here you cut on a democracy, they think you're cutting on thedemocratic republic.

    This isn't to say this is Unrequited's objection. I can say I too, when seeing the same one-liner over and over, have to remind myself that you are targeting folks who don't knowyet.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
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    savery wrote:
    The point i'm trying to make is not about moderators, it's about the fact that people are people and like to communicate. You won't find antisocial people on a forum - it's the complete opposite. As such, you have to expect that people are going to talk about other things, because humans are social creatures. Honestly, if you work for a company that makes and sells "widgets," do you only talk about widgets from the time you walk in the door from the time you leave? No discussions about anything else? I didn't think so.

    It's the whole "birds of a feather" thing. Obviously, we all have an interest in guns and carrying - that's why we're here. However, we all do more than carry guns - I'm involved in aviation as both a career and a hobby, I'm a huge boater, I'm into aviculture (meaning that I keep birds, particuarly parrots) and I'm just getting started in amateur radio and I've been trying to learn to play the guitar. As an example - If i see someone with a blue and gold macaw in their avatar, I'd like to have a bird discussion. Sure, I could take it to PM, but then nobody else gets the chance to chime in. It's the simple purpose of a forum, and I think that trying to keep it all "on topic" really goes against human nature and you'll see the number of active posters decline. Nobody likes to be "hearded."

    Just my .308.

    edited: bcuz uf my gud grammer n englesh scillz
    I pretty much agree with Savery, although not entirely with the no moderators issue. The rest of it I think is pretty spot on and similar to what I said on the other thread that I think bred this one.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  18. #18
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    Decoligny wrote:
    SNIP As far as politely suggesting a poll and asking anyone's blessing, it will be a cold day in hell before I ask anyone'spermission to use my freedom of speech. (and the rest of the post.)
    Nice evasion, Decoligny.

    If you were truly interested in helping the owner and moderators, you would have asked if they needed some help, perhaps suggested a poll, and asked.

    This isn't a matter of your free-speech rights. Its a matter of you pretending higher motives.



    Decoligny wrote:
    Knowledge is power. I am not suggesting they provide any more service to us than they have already so generously provided. I am simply suggesting that it would help them in their decision making to know the midset of the members.
    You were not suggesting that it would help them in their decision-making. You were trying to get up a little "proof" to make yourself right.

    By the way, the second and third sentences in the immediate quote are contradictory. If you didn't want more service, why bother with a poll?

    Just take your lumps and move on. I'm happy to have you on the forum and look for your posts. I just wish you wouldn't try this poll tactic.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    irfner wrote:
    This is a tough one. While I like the idea of open discussion I have seen these things deteriorate with political and religious tripe that quickly change from discussion to argument.These off topic discussions canconsume large quantities of band width for little gain. Which ever way you decide to go I am for it but I recommend staying true to the name and at least broadly limiting the topics.
    It's just a matter of life, and I don't care if you have a strict "GUNS ONLY" policy.

    It's a bit trite, but seriously - what would the world be like if we all looked, acted, dressed, sounded, and thought the same? Hell nations exist because we don't all agree. I don't care if it's 9MM vs .45 or Mccain vs Paul - people WILL have Disagreements!

    If you build it - they will come. You shouldn't open a discussion forum without expecting people to discuss everything. You shouldn't open a restauraunt and expect people to not have a conversation over dinner... you get the idea.

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    Citizen wrote:
    This isn't to say this is Unrequited's objection. I can say I too, when seeing the same one-liner over and over, have to remind myself that you are targeting folks who don't knowyet.
    And now one that 'don't know yet' has engaged a one-liner. Do he now know? And what do they think means "Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth."?

    How else does one state a principled political philosophy in a sound bite that won't be easily forgotten nor dismissed?

    I wonder if he thinks that I think that we are 'equal'? What is egalitarianism and what part does it play in democracy? What is an 'elite' that we each aren't an elite and that we demagogue who are elites - except SWATs and SEALS? What hypocracy.



  21. #21
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    My two cents...

    Unlike a government, a forum is dependent on membership to thrive and attract sponsors. If members leave because the owners and mods ignore the will of the membership, that's to the detriment of the forum as a whole. The membership is not running the forum, but in instances like this poll, providing feedback so the owners/mods can better choose between tailoring the forum to its membership, or sticking to their ideal model of the forum and risk losing members.

    Make "General Discussion" about general discussion. As I posted in the other thread regarding this, there are already other forums for various OC- and gun-related topics, making General Discussion redundant if restricted solely to OC- and gun-related threads.

  22. #22
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    It is a tenet of good writing to write to your intended audience. There are some here that aren't confused. With what level of writing reading are you comfortable or not confused?

    While I'm sure we're all flattered, it's a forum. So conversational english is much more appropriate than formal english.

    Honestly, I think Doug justhas one of those "word of the day" calendars. Or maybe he's a failedwriter who likes to take his frustration out on people that don't speak latin.

    And I would think that it'sjust a little condiscending to say "With what level of writing reading are you comfortable or not confused?" Especially since we all know that the reader's comfort level and understanding of your writing is absolutely none of your concern. That's not really the nature of a superiority complex.

  23. #23
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Democracy being the rule of fools by fools, I hope that the owners make the dissidents squeal like Deliverance's piggies!¬* Do I enjoy OCDO the way it is?¬* Danmdy right I do.¬* Could it be better?¬* Better is the enemy of good enough, IOW don't screw with a good thing.

    Doug...

    It doesn't matter if I agree with you or not, I do enjoy the way you put things.

    On this one I am with you 100% !


    Oh yea I didn't vote in the stupid poll.

  24. #24
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    Sa45auto wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Democracy being the rule of fools by fools, I hope that the owners make the dissidents squeal like Deliverance's piggies! Do I enjoy OCDO the way it is? Danmdy right I do. Could it be better? Better is the enemy of good enough, IOW don't screw with a good thing.

    Doug...

    It doesn't matter if I agree with you or not, I do enjoy the way you put things.

    On this one I am with you 100% !


    Oh yea I didn't vote in the stupid poll.
    Thank you. That's what matters. Thank you for your timely post considering what is above it as I write.

  25. #25
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    Citizen wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    SNIP¬*...one-liners...
    Doug,

    You and I are in agreement with the idea that a pure democracy is a bad idea.

    I think--and I could be wrong--that what you run into is people who have been inculcated with the idea that democracy is the greatest form of government.¬* They just don't have the backround on it, and therefore don't understand what you mean.¬* Part of it is perhaps that they think they live in¬*a democracy, so when they here you cut on a democracy, they think you're cutting on the¬*democratic republic.

    This isn't to say this is Unrequited's objection.¬* I can say I too, when seeing the same one-liner over and over, have to remind myself that you are targeting folks who don't know¬*yet.

    A BIG ditto from me.

    Doug you can do what you want, but if you shared some of your knowledge it might help the blind to see.

    And aren't we all blind sometimes?

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