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Virginia Governor Kaine Supports Open Carry!!!

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

longwatch wrote:
Thundar wrote:
Besides, if you have a concealed handgun permit there isn't a penalty for being caught concealing in a restaurant is there?
No there is a penalty, its a class 1 misdemeanor, your permit essentially doesn't exist in a restaurant that serves alcohol so the penalty for illegal concealed carry applies.

I understand your logic, but am not convinced. There is no plain language penalty for concealed permit holders. If the legislature had intended a penalty, one would have been identified.

Link to 18.2 308:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

Link to 18.2 287.4:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4

1. Plain Language

There is nothing in 18.2 - 308 that says your permit does not exist in a restaurant. Indeed if I were to carry my loaded SU-16 with a 30 round magazine intoa restaurant the permit would be valid to exempt me from 18.2 - 287.4.

The concealed restaurant section is J3. J covers violations with a permit. Each section J, J1, J2, and J4 have a penalty, but J3 does not.

Part J penalties:

J- shall forfeit his permit

J1- guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor and revoke the person's permit and ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years

J2- permit suspended

J3 - (Restaurant Ban) NOTHING

J4 - permit suspended

I am not disputing the illegality of the act,I am just not convincedthat it is a Class 1 misdemeanor.
 

mlands

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
152
Location
Centreville, Virginia, USA
imported post

It is obvious that our anti-gun governor will not do anything at all to keep or improve gun rights. Our former Governor George Allen plans to run for governor again and maybe then pro-gun legislation will get passed. Until then it's open carry when eating.
 

TheEggman

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
174
Location
, Virginia, USA
imported post

See what the anti's think of this spin ...

Gov. Kaine actually supports a law requiring persons authorized by the Courts of VA to carry concealed firearms, AND WHO DO NOT DRINK to EXPOSE THEIR DEFENSIVE SIDEARMS TO FULL PUBLIC VIEW when they enter a place where OTHERS have been drinking or may even be drunk.



BTW - There ARE NO BARS IN VA!
 

chiliman

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
17
Location
Bristow, Va, ,
imported post

ChinChin wrote:
roscoe13 wrote:
Someone should remind the moron that he works for the citizens, not the LE community...
I seriously doubt it was honestly the "LE Community" as much as it was representatives from ABC and VA Restaurants who have opposed this bill at every turn. The VA restaurants association pulls in a BUTTLOAD of revenue from tourists and locals and has attempted to wield their influence in capitol quarters before. The sight of armed Virginians in their establishments, oh the horror. . .never mind it would act as a crime deterrent and help their patrons and tourists from being robbed, they fear it might make people uncomfortable!!!!!

Pardon me while I puke.

LEO's are just a red hearing to shield the restaurant association from potential backlash, bad press, boycotts, etc.



I have not posted here for a very long time but I am lurking on the board every day. Many will remember that I was caught up in a controversy with the VCDL in my restaurant (Hard Times Cafe in Woodbridge)with my position and policies in regard to open carry. I'd like to think that the result of our talks back and forth was a more amicable approach to educating the restaurant owners and employees out there on open carry when there is an issue or disagreement.



I do not know a single restaurant owner or manager that has an issue with CHP holders carrying concealed in their establishments. In fact everyone I know prefers, as I do, that they be able to carry concealed. I ama member of the VCDL, the NRA, own 3 handguns & an AR15, and am still adding to the collection when I can! But, we're in the business of pleasing people and our personal likes and dislikes go out the door when we open for business. The large majority of restaurant owners are Republican by the very nature of their entrepunerial spirit. We hold the same ideals as you.



When this issue came up I worked with Phillip Van Cleave and wrote a letter in enthusiastic supportfor the repeal of theconcealed carry ban for him to distribute to the state legislature as he saw fit. My intention was to come down to testify in the committee but my schedule just did not allow for it. I am terribly disappointed with Gov. Kaine's vetoes but we all had to know he'd go and pander to his base on this. I will sendmyoriginalor another letter to the governor and my state representatives to help override this veto. The only good that may come of this is to possibly get the damn silly requirement to notify the restaurant when they are carrying concealed.



Randy Barnette
 

sccrref

Regular Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
741
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
Thundar wrote:
SNIP Besides, if you have a concealed handgun permit there isn't a penalty for being caught concealing in a restaurant is there?

Lets not discuss breaking the law.
Not as long as the resturant does not sell alcohol. No booze and you have a valid permit, conceal away. That is not breaking the law unluss management sees you and or asks you to leave and you do not do so.
 

sccrref

Regular Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
741
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
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Kaine did not get my vote last time and he damn well won't get it the next time either. If we are lucky, we will not have to worry about him again after that.
 

Jared

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
892
Location
Michigan, USA
imported post

Honestly, the repeal was not a good bill. It would set a dangerous precident. You would have to inform staff of your CCW status. They have no business knowing. Also, for those who chose to open carry, many managers would probably confuse the law and say that you needed to notify them of OC'ing even though you would not have to.

It may have been a step in the right direction, but the whole must notify a staff member was nonsense and would set a very dangerous precident.
 

The_Side_of_Good

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
44
Location
Culpeper County, VA, ,
imported post

T Dubya wrote:
72Malibu wrote:
Quite honestly though, the fact that it was shot down makes me want to open carry even more in restaurants now. Somewhat of a shrug-the-shoulders-okay...if-that's-the-way-you-want-it-then-learn-to-live-with-seeing-people-open-carry attitude.

That's what I'm going to do. I don't like it, but what we've got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. I don't like it any more than you men, but if that's the way he wants, he gets.
Ditto....
 

ccunning

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
115
Location
Manassas, Virginia, USA
imported post

I have been following the restaurant concealed carry bill on the VCDL bill tracking site with great excitement. I am frustrated and completely furious that it was vetoed after making it through the House and Senate by wide margins. The ignorance of this law is second in my mind only to private sales being referred to as a "Gun show loophole".

I have never OC'd before and never had any intention to, but this has me frustrated enough to do it out of spite.

The reason I came to opencarry.org tonight, was to get some advice on OC. I only have an IWB holster. If I wear this with my shirt tucked in, is it safe to say I would be considered open carrying?
 

roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
imported post

ccunning wrote:
I have been following the restaurant concealed carry bill on the VCDL bill tracking site with great excitement. I am frustrated and completely furious that it was vetoed after making it through the House and Senate by wide margins. The ignorance of this law is second in my mind only to private sales being referred to as a "Gun show loophole".

I have never OC'd before and never had any intention to, but this has me frustrated enough to do it out of spite.

The reason I came to opencarry.org tonight, was to get some advice on OC. I only have an IWB holster. If I wear this with my shirt tucked in, is it safe to say I would be considered open carrying?
Yes. Do a little searching, this has been beaten to death already...
 

longwatch

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
4,327
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

chiliman wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
roscoe13 wrote:
Someone should remind the moron that he works for the citizens, not the LE community...
I seriously doubt it was honestly the "LE Community" as much as it was representatives from ABC and VA Restaurants who have opposed this bill at every turn. The VA restaurants association pulls in a BUTTLOAD of revenue from tourists and locals and has attempted to wield their influence in capitol quarters before. The sight of armed Virginians in their establishments, oh the horror. . .never mind it would act as a crime deterrent and help their patrons and tourists from being robbed, they fear it might make people uncomfortable!!!!!

Pardon me while I puke.

LEO's are just a red hearing to shield the restaurant association from potential backlash, bad press, boycotts, etc.



I have not posted here for a very long time but I am lurking on the board every day. Many will remember that I was caught up in a controversy with the VCDL in my restaurant (Hard Times Cafe in Woodbridge)with my position and policies in regard to open carry. I'd like to think that the result of our talks back and forth was a more amicable approach to educating the restaurant owners and employees out there on open carry when there is an issue or disagreement.



I do not know a single restaurant owner or manager that has an issue with CHP holders carrying concealed in their establishments. In fact everyone I know prefers, as I do, that they be able to carry concealed. I ama member of the VCDL, the NRA, own 3 handguns & an AR15, and am still adding to the collection when I can! But, we're in the business of pleasing people and our personal likes and dislikes go out the door when we open for business. The large majority of restaurant owners are Republican by the very nature of their entrepunerial spirit. We hold the same ideals as you.



When this issue came up I worked with Phillip Van Cleave and wrote a letter in enthusiastic supportfor the repeal of theconcealed carry ban for him to distribute to the state legislature as he saw fit. My intention was to come down to testify in the committee but my schedule just did not allow for it. I am terribly disappointed with Gov. Kaine's vetoes but we all had to know he'd go and pander to his base on this. I will sendmyoriginalor another letter to the governor and my state representatives to help override this veto. The only good that may come of this is to possibly get the damn silly requirement to notify the restaurant when they are carrying concealed.



Randy Barnette
Hey Randy, thanks for your support, I'm sure it has had a positive effect and helped push this as far as its gone.
 
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