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Stopping harrassment (the police officer superiority complex)

J

Jimmy Dean

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Feb 21, 2008
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OK, so, I walk into Citgo, 4 officers inside, 1 local, 2 sheriffs, and one local from the town over. I walk in, get my smokes, and walk out.

Sheriffs follow me outside and ask me to holdup, ask why I am carrying a pistol...instead of replying "Because I can." I responded with self defense. They then proceeded to run my I.D. the serial number on the gun, ask the 50 quistions, call another local to see if me carrying was even legal, give me a lecture, and then finish it off with the "We carry as well, but we are P.O.s and it is for our defense, so you don't have to carry." Then goes into another speel about all the what ifs if they where called to a scene and I was there and my gun was visible how I could be shot etc etc etc.

Oh, and then he finished off with "Well, if you want to get technical, that weapon is concealed." "Um, sir, it is perfectly visible." "No, it is in a holster, which means that part of the gun is not visible so we COULD arrest you for that"

(Now, I was wearing a paddle holster, molded plastic, where the gun hangs outside my waistband with the barrel, obviously, inside the holster. My shirt was not tucked in, however, on my right side (where the pistol was) was tucked behind the gun, so that it was VERY plainly visible from every direction except my immediate left)

Now obviously, since I am here, and still have my gun, they were unable to find anything at all to arrest me for or hold me up any longer, however, they did manage to hold me up for about 45 minutes through all this crap, so, basically, what/is there anything that I can do to speed this friggin process up whenever they feel like getting on a power trip? I mean, ok, I understand that they do not see people up here carrying in the open....ever..prety much...hell, I haven't seen a single person open carry up here in the 4 years I have been here, but after running my name, that SHOULD be the end of the process, if the process is even started (which it shouldnt if I am doing nothing wrong in the first place) This 45 min bullcrap is ridiculous, granted, it will not stop me from strapping it on tomorrow.
 
P

PavePusher

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Apr 26, 2007
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Tucson, Arizona, USA
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Put together a one-page sheet of state and local laws that you can hand out to anyone who stops you. This will either speed up the process, or really chap their hide to the point they will arrest you on suspicion of having an above-room-temp I.Q.The lastwill take a good chunk of your time, buthas a better chance of monetary payout than buying lotto tickets.:D
 
J

Jimmy Dean

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Feb 21, 2008
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already printed.

I am looking for the laws that define 'concealed' so I can tell him to piss off (legally of course) when he mentions the holster next time.
 
J

Jimmy Dean

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Feb 21, 2008
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Well, I just got back from the campus PD. convo went like this.

"Is it legal for me to carry my gun in my truck on campus?"
"No."
*Rifling of papers, hands two sheets to the officer.*
"Hmmm. OK, yes, it is legal, we just don't want you to."
"OK, thankyou."
 
B

Bryzantium

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Joined
May 1, 2007
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, Louisiana, USA
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I like to always carry the open carry documents found in this forum on myself for this purpose. As to the "it's concealed if in a holster"

78-095 from the AG of Louisiana

The pertinent part



In State vs Fluker, 311 So.2d 863 (1975), the defendant had been

arrested for carrying a handgun in a holster on his hip. The weapon was

exposed except for that portion in the holster, and it was fully recognizable

as a weapon. The LOUISIANA Supreme Court, in reversing Fluker's conviction,

stated that 'by making the offense of concealment a crime of specific intent,

the legislature has abandoned the old rule that a partially hidden weapon is a

concealed weapon in favor of a more realistic proscription that contemplates

that a weapon, although not in 'full open view,' is nonetheless not a concealed

weapon, if it is sufficiently exposed to reveal its identity.

If the weapon is carried in a manner that reveals its identity, its carrier

cannot be presumed to have intended to conceal it and, accordingly, is not in

violation of the statute ...... The appropriate test to be applied in

prosecutions for illegal carrying of weapons is whether, under the facts and

circumstances of the case as disclosed by the evidence, the manner in which

defendant carried the weapon revealed an intent to conceal its identity.'

Therefore, the carrying of an exposed handgun is not illegal, except as

provided in LSAR.S. 14:95.1.

LSAR.S. 14:95.1 provides:
 
Mainsail

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
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Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
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Cross post from your THR thread:

I’ve had a little experience in this, so I’m not going to give you the “my father’s friend’s brother told me…”, but information based on my experiences with the police and open carry.

In any OC encounter with the police, the first words out of your mouth should be, “Am I being detained?” Everything else hinges on his answer to that question. Don’t let him distract you by asking some inane question instead of answering; if he does, ask again. Why you need a gun, why you’re carrying a gun openly, etc., is not police business. Always be polite, never defensive or abusive. Hopefully, you will have done your homework and you know what a Terry stop is. You should also be aware of what the requirements are in your state regarding providing ID on demand.

If he says no, you are not being detained, either walk away or stay and chat; it’s your choice. However, anything you say should be considered diarrhea of the mouth. He’ll tell you OC is a bad idea etc etc. You’re preaching to whatever is the opposite of the choir. You won’t change his mind so what’s the point? My strong suggestion is that if you are not being detained; wish the officer a fine day and continue with whatever you were doing.

If he says yes, that you are being detained, immediately ask, “For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?” If carrying a firearm openly is not a crime where you live, then his response of “Because you’re carrying a gun” is not an appropriate answer, and not sufficient reason to detain you. It may turn out that his detaining you has nothing to do with your firearm, maybe you parked on an old lady or something, so now is a good time to find out. If you are being detained, the only reason he is talking to you is to try to discover enough information to move to the next step, arrest. You should have stopped talking by now.

If the officer insists on disarming you, running the gun’s serial numbers, your ID information etc, he is fishing for something to justify his seizing you. The last thing he want’s to do at this point is to have to hand you back your pistol and let you walk away, in other words, he’s looking to ‘save face’ for whoever may be watching.

Detentions are based on ‘reasonable articuable suspicion a crime is afoot, and are used for investigation.

Arrest is based on probable cause that you have broken a law.

During my last non-detainment, the officer asked to see my concealed carry permit. I refused to give it to him because I wasn’t carrying a concealed weapon. I asked if I was being detained and he said no, but if I showed him my permit I could go on my way. I pointed out to him that since I wasn’t being detained, I could go on my way anyhow. In the end, I showed him no identification, did not tell him my name, and did not give him my permit. He had no reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime was afoot, and thus could not legally detain me. His sergeant told me I was free to go and that he was aware that open carry is legal.
 
ConditionThree

ConditionThree

State Pioneer
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
2,231
Location
Shasta County, California, USA
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Jimmy Dean wrote:
"We carry as well, but we are P.O.s and it is for our defense, so you don't have to carry."
Click to expand...


Okay Officer, I will gladly disarm to make you feel superior- however you and your reliefwill need to report for duty daily at my hometo provide 24 hour armed protection for me and my family. You will follow me whereever I go and provide me the security that I would otherwise provide for myself with my own firearm. That wont be too inconvenient for you, would it?

I believe I would have ceased providing information and cooperation after they had my name and address. Since you voluntarily allowed them to seize your pistol, and entertained their questions, they now have consumed more of your time by engaging you in a lecture ordebate as to why you shouldnt be armed.

I know it's difficult, but we should not feel compelled to answer any of the police officers questions outside of identity. Its your right to remain silent because anything you say will be used against you in their investigation. You have the right to refuse consent to a search.If you do not wish to answer any more questions- say so, indicating that you will not answer any further questions without an attorney present. Then ask them if you are free to go. They then will be forced to make a determination as to what they can charge you with or allow you to go about your business.
 
C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Mainsail wrote:
In any OC encounter with the police, the first words out of your mouth should be, “Am I being detained?” Everything else hinges on his answer to that question. Don’t let him distract you by asking some inane question instead of answering; if he does, ask again.
Click to expand...
Its agood question.

I think we overlook an even better one, "I do not consent to this encounter."

This throwsit back on the cop. He can wiggle and dodge all he wants, but if you don't consent to the enounter and he continues with it, he is admitting its a non-consensual encounter, akadetention.

Then all you have to do is send an open-records request to verify whether he really did have reasonable suspicion to justify a detention, and if he didn't, hammer his personnel folder with a complaint.

Don't forget to discreetly activate your voice-recorder just before the officer walks up.
 
C

charlie12

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA
imported post

Jimmy Dean wrote:
OK, so, I walk into Citgo, 4 officers inside, 1 local, 2 sheriffs, and one local from the town over. I walk in, get my smokes, and walk out.

Sheriffs follow me outside and ask me to holdup, ask why I am carrying a pistol...instead of replying "Because I can." I responded with self defense. They then proceeded to run my I.D. the serial number on the gun, ask the 50 quistions, call another local to see if me carrying was even legal, give me a lecture, and then finish it off with the "We carry as well, but we are P.O.s and it is for our defense, so you don't have to carry." Then goes into another speel about all the what ifs if they where called to a scene and I was there and my gun was visible how I could be shot etc etc etc.

Oh, and then he finished off with "Well, if you want to get technical, that weapon is concealed." "Um, sir, it is perfectly visible." "No, it is in a holster, which means that part of the gun is not visible so we COULD arrest you for that"

(Now, I was wearing a paddle holster, molded plastic, where the gun hangs outside my waistband with the barrel, obviously, inside the holster. My shirt was not tucked in, however, on my right side (where the pistol was) was tucked behind the gun, so that it was VERY plainly visible from every direction except my immediate left)

Now obviously, since I am here, and still have my gun, they were unable to find anything at all to arrest me for or hold me up any longer, however, they did manage to hold me up for about 45 minutes through all this crap, so, basically, what/is there anything that I can do to speed this friggin process up whenever they feel like getting on a power trip? I mean, ok, I understand that they do not see people up here carrying in the open....ever..prety much...hell, I haven't seen a single person open carry up here in the 4 years I have been here, but after running my name, that SHOULD be the end of the process, if the process is even started (which it shouldnt if I am doing nothing wrong in the first place) This 45 min bullcrap is ridiculous, granted, it will not stop me from strapping it on tomorrow.
Click to expand...
What State, Town are you in? What campus are you talking about?
 
C

concerned_citizen

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
23
Location
Metairie, Louisiana, USA
imported post

Bryzantium wrote:
I like to always carry the open carry documents found in this forum on myself for this purpose. As to the "it's concealed if in a holster"

78-095 from the AG of Louisiana

The pertinent part
Click to expand...
What website can we find "78-095 from the AG of Louisiana" so we can print it out and carry it on our person?
 
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