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Thread: 'More Guns, Less Crime'? or 'IPod link to violent crime eyed' The Washington Times Nation/Politics

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    http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/...531683278/1002

    The popularity of IPods and other portable — and pricey — high-tech products may be contributing to nationwide increases in violent crime, says a study by the Urban Institute.

    Nationwide, the rate of violent crimes jumped in 2005, the same year IPod sales soared after the introduction of a video-capable IPod, according to FBI crime statistics. This is in contrast to the steady decline in other areas of crime since the early 1990s.

    "It's not that all crime is going up. That's an important distinction," said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum.

    Because property crimes continue to decline, he suggested that criminals may be turning away from vehicle and home theft because expensive devices, such as IPods, can be more easily stolen from people on the street. He is reluctant, however, to exclusively blame IPods for the increase in homicides, calling it only one factor.

    The IPod, in addition to its value, may be attractive to thieves because the device is relatively easy to snatch away from inattentive users. Unlike a cell phone, IPod earbuds go in both ears, potentially making the user less aware of his or her surroundings. The earbuds also have distinctive white cords.

    "This sends a signal to a would-be robber that this is something very expensive," said John Roman, author of the study.

    The study could only indirectly link the increase of IPod use to the rise of violent-crime rates since police records aren't always specific enough about the crime. A direct link may never be made because victims of theft may not know why they were specifically targeted, Mr. Roman said.

    Alternative explanations for the rise in violent crime also were explored in the study, such as the diverting of police to national security roles, or a more violent youth culture.[Emphasis added] However, Mr. Roman said these observations do not explain why the increase specifically occurred in 2005, or why the rise occurred only in homicide and robbery.

    Technology and police experts debated the study at a panel discussion at the Urban Institute. Several panelists said companies that produce high-demand and high-tech devices should be held accountable. Some suggested that the devices should have more security such as a log-on name, which might discourage criminals from stealing them.

    "It's got to be something they know in advance that lets them know it's not going to be worth their time," Mr. Roman said.

    Businesses are also less likely to change their products unless it hurts them directly, said John Eck, professor of criminal justice at the University of Cincinnati. But because the harm is on the consumer side, and those consumers are likely to purchase a new device, there is little incentive for the business to add more security.

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    Hah, when I saw the title to this, I thought it was a piece mocking those who think that correlation is the same as causation...

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    Post hoc ergo propter hoc works as well.

    But it is interesting which logical fallacies are in the common lexicon/jargon and which fallacies are ignored.

    For the II, 'after the fact' and 'correlation is not cause' are fallacious logic like personal attacks and argument from authority and 'the heap' and Loki's wager. But if the II wanted to know such then they would have.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed whre they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    The best part?

    "Several panelists said companies that produce high-demand and high-tech devices should be held accountable."

    Oh sure, go after Apple and Microsoft again...HOW ABOUT LOCKING REPEAT OFFENDERS UP FOR GOOD!!!!!!!!! Are these idiots serious?!?!? Oh wait, they are....

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    "This sends a signal to a would-be robber that this is something very expensive," said John Roman, author of the study.
    So shouldn't the gun on my hip "senda signal to a would-be robber that this is some guy not to try to steal from"??

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    There is no penalty for human suffering.

    We only see that which is exemplified and glorified on the big screen. Because death and tulmult make for great stories.

    Payment for actions of wrong have been ruled out of the question because someone can always be changed. There is always a better way of living, and living under the pretense of someone else is exactly what a tyrant dreams of. If everyone is a criminal than they can be ruled unhindered.

    Sceptrum of fossor per Fossor! Hail the criminal do not punish him when we can control him!!!

    The more criminals the less citizens...

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    I read an article along these lines not too long ago but I don't remember where. It was discussing the fact that many consumer goods valuable to a thief for fencing have gotten so small that they are more easily carried away by the thief making hit and run, strong arm robberies and quick home invasion robberies more viable. An LCD tv is much easier to steal than a 1970s color console television for example. IPods are easier to steal than a home stereo system or even an 80s upscale boom-box.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    http://www.physorg.com/news123868591.html

    It's easy to see why iPods would be alluring targets for criminals: The music players are valuable and easy to resell, and people absorbed in their personal soundtracks can be vulnerably oblivious to their surroundings.

    But could the temptation for stealing iPods be so strong that they're behind an increase in the crime rate? Researchers at a public policy institute say yes.

    They argue that the tantalizing gadgets are perhaps the main reason U.S. violent crime rose in 2005 and 2006 after declining every year since 1991 - although a close look at the findings suggests the hypothesis has holes.

    The Urban Institute, a Washington think tank, first raised the subject of an "iCrime wave" last September, and held a panel discussion Tuesday to explore it further. The researchers don't blame iPod maker Apple Inc. or any other device maker for crime, but they do say consumers should demand technologies that would render stolen gadgets useless.

    Apple - which has explored anti-theft locks in patent filings - had no comment.

    A key point in the Urban Institute's argument is that robberies - the taking of something by force or the threat of it - had seen dramatic reductions since the 1990s, but jumped in 2005 and 2006. FBI statistics show the robbery rate went from 137 per 100,000 people in 2004 to 141 per 100,000 in 2005 and 149 in 2006. That helped boost the overall rate of violent crime in those years, even as rape rates fell and aggravated assault was generally flat.

    During those years, iPods were going mainstream. In late 2004, Apple had sold about 5 million iPods. By the end of 2005 that had ballooned to 42 million, and in 2006 the number neared 90 million.

    One widely accepted theory holds that crime happens when three things come together: A motivated offender encounters a suitable victim and perceives a high chance of getting away with it. And the Urban Institute researchers believe the sudden prevalence of iPods increased all three factors.

    Motivation: The iPod's several-hundred-dollar expense and pop-culture buzz made potential thieves, especially young ones, crave the device for themselves or for a lucrative resale market. Suitable victims: People listening through the iconic white earphones are easy to pick out and often unaware of their surroundings. Easy to get away with: IPods lack a mechanism that would pinpoint a thief's location or a subscription that could be canceled by the rightful owner.

    Anecdotal evidence bears out a lot of this. Subway officials in New York, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., reported big increases in iPods being stolen from passengers. News reports cast the iPod as the latest must-steal item for some thugs, following in the footsteps of things like Air Jordan sneakers.

    Furthering this idea, the rate for robberies by juveniles increased during this "iCrime Wave" to a much greater degree than the rate for adults, Urban Institute researcher John Roman pointed out. And if economic woes could explain the jump - a traditional place to look in crime research - Roman doesn't believe the overall rates of property crimes would have dropped in '05 and '06, as they did.

    But is it plausible that so many iPods and similar gadgets were stolen that they drove the rising robbery rate? That robbers would not have just stolen something else if not for shiny music players? This is where the iCrime Wave begins to seem less certain.

    For one thing, homicides also increased in this same span, albeit slightly, from 5.5 per 100,000 people to 5.6 in 2005 and 5.7 in 2007. Since crime trends are often murky, whatever caused the bump in homicides might also explain the rise in robberies.

    Roman responded that increases in violent crimes like robberies tend to correspond with rises in the homicide rate: Muggings often go badly and end in murder, so with more muggings going on, more homicide victims should be expected. But without good data indicating lots of people killed in iPod thefts, Roman acknowledged it's possible that "we've got our causation backwards."

    It's also curious that while iPod thefts on subways and other crowded urban settings provide the best anecdotal evidence, the 2005-06 crime increases were highest in small and midsized cities - places with less-dense pedestrian traffic, let alone teeming subways.

    Also, some stolen iPods might fall into the category of larceny - a theft without force, such as when something is filched from a backpack - and larcenies dropped in '05 and '06.

    In other words, there might have been an iCrime wave, but it would be hard to be sure. After all, robberies also jumped in pre-iPod 2001.

    "There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence of cell phones, iPods, GPS systems that have been targets for theft. No research can tell us those wouldn't have been substituted for other things," said Jack McDevitt, associate dean at Northeastern University's College of Criminal Justice.

    "I guess I could sort of understand and buy that in a very narrow place, in a short period of time - a short spike for a few months," he said. "But to suggest that that's driving the crime numbers in any major way, I don't think so."


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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.physorg.com/news123868591.html

    It's easy to see why iPods would be alluring targets for criminals: The music players are valuable and easy to resell, and people absorbed in their personal soundtracks can be vulnerably oblivious to their surroundings...........
    I think it is possible the the theft of the iPod may be secondary to the assault, robbery and in some cases homicide.

    I am sorry to say that in my youth I was, in many respects a less than Sterling individual. I still remember what were some of the controlling factors which influenced the actions of some of my cohorts.

    I think that in many instances the iPod my just be the icing on the cake.

    A person wearing an iPod is so "vulnerably oblivious to their surroundings" that they make the perfect mark. The iPod also indicates that they have enough available money to have expensive toys. Who better to rob and possibly murder, but the guy with money who is totally unprepared to defend themselves.

    It is the very opposite of the alert citizen with a gun on his hip.

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    http://www.physorg.com/news123868591.html wrote:
    The researchers don't blame iPod maker Apple Inc. or any other device maker for crime, but they do say consumers should demand technologies that would render stolen gadgets useless.

    Apple - which has explored anti-theft locks in patent filings - had no comment.
    So... SmartiPods, then?

    Here, I'll recommend some "common sense" iPod control "reasonable regulations":
    -Have matching, microprinted serial numbers on headphones and iPods. Makes it harder for criminals to steal iPods because they'll need your headphones, too.
    -iPod Registration. When an LEO stops you, he can run the numbers on your iPod through his database to make sure it isn't stolen.
    -LTCi, or License to Carry iPods. Force people to get a license to carry an iPod. It's for your own safety.
    -Hi-Cap Ban- Ban high-capacity iPods. If criminals know that iPods holding more than 5 songs are banned, they might not steal as many.
    -Acoustic Fingerprinting. All iPods must be test-played upon purchase. That way, there are reference samples in case a crime is committed with a stolen iPod.
    -CCi Only. By banning the open carry of iPods, they'll be less likely to be stolen. Anyone whose iPod prints will be slapped with a brandishing charge.
    -iPod Child Locks. All iPods must be stored in a secure, locked location around children... so they don't try to use it.
    -One-song-per-month Limit. Users are only allowed to upload one song per month onto their iPod. This shouldn't be a problem because hey, in a family of four, they could upload, hell, 48 songs per year! Surely no one needs more than that.
    -Assault iPod Ban. All iPods that look more likely to be stolen are banned. That includes modifications like adding a case, skins, or pistol grips.
    -Queue Loaded Indicator. All iPods must have an indicator that shows whether they have a song queued and ready to play. No one knows why.
    -Junk iPod/Black Friday Special Ban. Only Apple iPods are allowed to be sold. Anything sold that's less expensive is a Junk iPod and is banned. For your safety.
    -Waiting Period. All iPod purchasers must wait 10 days after buying an iPod in order to pick it up. No one knows why.

    Sorry, this is just too ridiculous for me to take seriously... :shock:

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    Aren't iPods merely cracker bling? Then implant 'em like grillz. That'll make 'em harder to swipe.

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    So... SmartiPods, then?

    Here, I'll recommend some "common sense" iPod control "reasonable regulations":
    -Have matching, microprinted serial numbers on headphones and iPods. Makes it harder for criminals to steal iPods because they'll need your headphones, too.
    -iPod Registration. When an LEO stops you, he can run the numbers on your iPod through his database to make sure it isn't stolen.
    -LTCi, or License to Carry iPods. Force people to get a license to carry an iPod. It's for your own safety.
    -Hi-Cap Ban- Ban high-capacity iPods. If criminals know that iPods holding more than 5 songs are banned, they might not steal as many.
    -Acoustic Fingerprinting. All iPods must be test-played upon purchase. That way, there are reference samples in case a crime is committed with a stolen iPod.
    -CCi Only. By banning the open carry of iPods, they'll be less likely to be stolen. Anyone whose iPod prints will be slapped with a brandishing charge.
    -iPod Child Locks. All iPods must be stored in a secure, locked location around children... so they don't try to use it.
    -One-song-per-month Limit. Users are only allowed to upload one song per month onto their iPod. This shouldn't be a problem because hey, in a family of four, they could upload, hell, 48 songs per year! Surely no one needs more than that.
    -Assault iPod Ban. All iPods that look more likely to be stolen are banned. That includes modifications like adding a case, skins, or pistol grips.
    -Queue Loaded Indicator. All iPods must have an indicator that shows whether they have a song queued and ready to play. No one knows why.
    -Junk iPod/Black Friday Special Ban. Only Apple iPods are allowed to be sold. Anything sold that's less expensive is a Junk iPod and is banned. For your safety.
    -Waiting Period. All iPod purchasers must wait 10 days after buying an iPod in order to pick it up. No one knows why.

    Sorry, this is just too ridiculous for me to take seriously... :shock:




    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! NoW that is freakin funny!!!!!!!



    NIDC National Ipod Download Check. Background check to verify that all Ipod Purchasers are not downlad felons.




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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    So... SmartiPods, then?

    Here, I'll recommend some "common sense" iPod control "reasonable regulations":
    -Have matching, microprinted serial numbers on headphones and iPods. Makes it harder for criminals to steal iPods because they'll need your headphones, too.
    -iPod Registration. When an LEO stops you, he can run the numbers on your iPod through his database to make sure it isn't stolen.
    -LTCi, or License to Carry iPods. Force people to get a license to carry an iPod. It's for your own safety.
    -Hi-Cap Ban- Ban high-capacity iPods. If criminals know that iPods holding more than 5 songs are banned, they might not steal as many.
    -Acoustic Fingerprinting. All iPods must be test-played upon purchase. That way, there are reference samples in case a crime is committed with a stolen iPod.
    -CCi Only. By banning the open carry of iPods, they'll be less likely to be stolen. Anyone whose iPod prints will be slapped with a brandishing charge.
    -iPod Child Locks. All iPods must be stored in a secure, locked location around children... so they don't try to use it.
    -One-song-per-month Limit. Users are only allowed to upload one song per month onto their iPod. This shouldn't be a problem because hey, in a family of four, they could upload, hell, 48 songs per year! Surely no one needs more than that.
    -Assault iPod Ban. All iPods that look more likely to be stolen are banned. That includes modifications like adding a case, skins, or pistol grips.
    -Queue Loaded Indicator. All iPods must have an indicator that shows whether they have a song queued and ready to play. No one knows why.
    -Junk iPod/Black Friday Special Ban. Only Apple iPods are allowed to be sold. Anything sold that's less expensive is a Junk iPod and is banned. For your safety.
    -Waiting Period. All iPod purchasers must wait 10 days after buying an iPod in order to pick it up. No one knows why.

    Sorry, this is just too ridiculous for me to take seriously... :shock:




    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! NoW that is freakin funny!!!!!!!



    NIDC National Ipod Download Check. Background check to verify that all Ipod Purchasers are not downlad felons.


    Both of you guys, great comments!!!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Freaking HYSTERICAL!

    Just great. Now the MMM and RIAA Coalition will be meeting to discuss strategies and Crabby Spangler will be forming the newwww.ProtestEasyIpods.com to have "listen-ins".



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    remember the starter jacket craze? every day on the news you would hear about people being beatin or even killed of their 2-300 dollar starter jackets.. i remember raider jackets being especially high on the list.

    i have a cheap ass mp3 player.. no fancy screen, no video playback.. only holds 1gb but it's not much bigger then a thumb drive, plugs directly into the usb port, takes 1 AAA.. and cost me a grand total of 8 bucks after rebate..

    i usually carry it on my hoodie/jacket string, i could'nt imagine anyone wanting it.. i think ipods are both overrated and overpriced.

    if someone robbed me for it i'd just hand it over.

    now my laptop on the other hand.. im very cautious with.. and if someone tried to rob me for it their gonna have one hell of a fight on their hands.. not only are they expensive but also contain a lot of files.

    i think this is all the more reason to carry, the society is getting more hi-tech which means more goodies to rob which means more likely to get robbed the way i see it.

    i can absolutely believe that ipods are causing more muggings.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Aren't iPods merely cracker bling? Then implant 'em like grillz. That'll make 'em harder to swipe.
    That is funny

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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    So... SmartiPods, then?

    Here, I'll recommend some "common sense" iPod control "reasonable regulations":
    -Have matching, microprinted serial numbers on headphones and iPods. Makes it harder for criminals to steal iPods because they'll need your headphones, too.
    -iPod Registration. When an LEO stops you, he can run the numbers on your iPod through his database to make sure it isn't stolen.
    -LTCi, or License to Carry iPods. Force people to get a license to carry an iPod. It's for your own safety.
    -Hi-Cap Ban- Ban high-capacity iPods. If criminals know that iPods holding more than 5 songs are banned, they might not steal as many.
    -Acoustic Fingerprinting. All iPods must be test-played upon purchase. That way, there are reference samples in case a crime is committed with a stolen iPod.
    -CCi Only. By banning the open carry of iPods, they'll be less likely to be stolen. Anyone whose iPod prints will be slapped with a brandishing charge.
    -iPod Child Locks. All iPods must be stored in a secure, locked location around children... so they don't try to use it.
    -One-song-per-month Limit. Users are only allowed to upload one song per month onto their iPod. This shouldn't be a problem because hey, in a family of four, they could upload, hell, 48 songs per year! Surely no one needs more than that.
    -Assault iPod Ban. All iPods that look more likely to be stolen are banned. That includes modifications like adding a case, skins, or pistol grips.
    -Queue Loaded Indicator. All iPods must have an indicator that shows whether they have a song queued and ready to play. No one knows why.
    -Junk iPod/Black Friday Special Ban. Only Apple iPods are allowed to be sold. Anything sold that's less expensive is a Junk iPod and is banned. For your safety.
    -Waiting Period. All iPod purchasers must wait 10 days after buying an iPod in order to pick it up. No one knows why.

    Sorry, this is just too ridiculous for me to take seriously... :shock:




    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! NoW that is freakin funny!!!!!!!



    NIDC National Ipod Download Check. Background check to verify that all Ipod Purchasers are not downlad felons.


    You forgot the iPod Free Zones

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