MCPD pats self on back

Tomahawk wrote:

Now's the moment for you to provide some evidence that any of the above quoted BS is true. We're waiting.

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And how would i "prove" that?

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Tomahawk wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

I will. I have been aproponent for concealed and open carry ever since I was in the military. There are ways to go about educating people. Doing crazy crap like was done here is NOT the way to go about it. I grew up in that area and know the restaurant owners and workers, real good people. I know the truth, and it isn't the way it was portrayed by the open carrying guys there. Under no circumstances should we make gestures towrads our guns and be rude to law enforcement, it doesn't make us look good. They should have just showed ID to the officers and gone from there. Following that if the cops were rude or tried to arrest then that's another story. That didn't happen though as we all know.

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Oh, so you weren't just being sarcastic? You are more like HankT than I first believed.

Now's the moment for you to provide some evidence that any of the above quoted BS is true. We're waiting.

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And how would i "prove" that? I have some friends in the restaurant who told me what happened. As stated prior, they are very good people and have no reason to lie. I saw the story a long time ago in the paper and it didn't seem right to me. If the officers really had violated your rights they would have been sued, that's obvious. I do believe it is wrong for them to write the computer stuff they did, but that's more of a departmental issue than a civil rights issue. I have noticed a lot of anti-LE stuff on this forum (and other pro-gun forums) and I think that's the wrong way to go about this. Some people here are mis-informed on the law and give bad advice with respect to how to deal with LE.

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The FOIAed info revealed quite clearly the attitude of the responding officers was not what should be expected and demanded of those with the privilege of holding the public trust and fairly enforcingour laws.

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nitrovic wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

Now's the moment for you to provide some evidence that any of the above quoted BS is true. We're waiting.

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And how would i "prove" that?

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That's your frigging problem. You're the one who chose, with his very first post, to accuse members of this forum of being liars, stirring up trouble,and provoking police.

Maybe if you had nothing to back it up you should have approached this by asking to hear the other side of the story, first, but instead you passed judgment on people you don't know and have never met without any discussion.

I've been out to eat with the guys in that incident more times than I can count, and I can personally vouch for their behavior and their honesty. You are just some anonymous blip on the internet to me; if you want this outrageous claim of yours to be taken seriously, the burden is on you to provide some evidence or to apologize.

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nitrovic wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

I will. I have been aproponent for concealed and open carry ever since I was in the military. There are ways to go about educating people. Doing crazy crap like was done here is NOT the way to go about it. I grew up in that area and know the restaurant owners and workers, real good people. I know the truth, and it isn't the way it was portrayed by the open carrying guys there. Under no circumstances should we make gestures towrads our guns and be rude to law enforcement, it doesn't make us look good. They should have just showed ID to the officers and gone from there. Following that if the cops were rude or tried to arrest then that's another story. That didn't happen though as we all know.

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Oh, so you weren't just being sarcastic? You are more like HankT than I first believed.

Now's the moment for you to provide some evidence that any of the above quoted BS is true. We're waiting.

Click to expand...

And how would i "prove" that? I have some friends in the restaurant who told me what happened. As stated prior, they are very good people and have no reason to lie. I saw the story a long time ago in the paper and it didn't seem right to me. If the officers really had violated your rights they would have been sued, that's obvious. I do believe it is wrong for them to write the computer stuff they did, but that's more of a departmental issue than a civil rights issue. I have noticed a lot of anti-LE stuff on this forum (and other pro-gun forums) and I think that's the wrong way to go about this. Some people here are mis-informed on the law and give bad advice with respect to how to deal with LE.

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Welcome nitrovic

It's a matter of perspective. It is entirely possiblefor two or more people to observe the same event and see two different things based on a huge number of variables including line of sight, hearing, as well as past personal experienceandbias.

I'm a cop out here and I encounter this phenomenon quite regularly during investigations. Eye witness accounts and descriptions of crimes, suspects and other events like traffic collisions are often refuted by video evidence when available.

So it is easy for me to believe that what your friends observed was what they truly believe happened.

Your friends may also have your bias that when ID is asked for by officers without the force of law behind the request that one should just comply so they will go away. Someone who is not completely neutral will be swayed immediately to one side or another from the moment police cars arrive in the parking lot.To comply or not isa personal choice one can make but I don't think poorlyof one who chooses to lawfully refuse.

The officers alsosuggestedthat they "cover up" which as you know would have then subjected the "Manassass 7" to arrest and they were quite proper to refuse. Someone following your appeasement approach may well have gotten arrested for following the request.

The FOIAed info revealed quite clearly the attitude of the responding officers was not what should be expected and demanded of those with the privilege of holding the public trust and fairly enforcingour laws.

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Holy trolling :lol:

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Disregard guys, my apoligies. I actually saw the youtube video with the Fairfax cops. I guess either my source was wrong or some other group was in the restaurant, i don't know. You guys seemed cool to the FFX guys. Maybe it was the good way the FFX guys approached, i don't know.

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nitrovic wrote:

Disregard guys, my apoligies. I actually saw the youtube video with the Fairfax cops. I guess either my source was wrong or some other group was in the restaurant, i don't know. You guys seemed cool to the FFX guys. Maybe it was the good way the FFX guys approached, i don't know.

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No prob. And sorry if I seemed like I was jumping on you hard, because, well...I was. These are friends of mine, after all, and we've had some trolls come around here before trying to stir shit up. If you ever met these guys, you'll know why I stick up for them.

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If you want to chat about this offline come to our next meetup, if I'm there at least you can hear our side of the story. Seriously no one in the Tonys group was seeking out the police to set them up or acted as you heard. If anything I expected Tonys to be 'safer' for OC than other places.

The big lesson I learned is that playing an 'I said, he said' game is tough to win without something to back my story up. This is one reason a FOIA was requested, what it discovered was unexpected to say the least.
I expect a lot of people have learned this lesson and like me, fully intend to be able to back their side of the story up, should it happen again.

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longwatch wrote:

If you want to chat about this offline come to our next meetup, if I'm there at least you can hear our side of the story. Seriously no one in the Tonys group was seeking out the police to set them up or acted as you heard. If anything I expected Tonys to be 'safer' for OC than other places.

The big lesson I learned is that playing an 'I said, he said' game is tough to win without something to back my story up. This is one reason a FOIA was requested, what it discovered was unexpected to say the least.
I expect a lot of people have learned this lesson and like me, fully intend to be able to back their side of the story up, should it happen again.

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Agreed. I also expect Tony's to be "safer" for OC considering they are very pro police and pro military. They really are good people working there (i grew up in the area and know them well). Maybe they just got spooked with the whole situation. Thanks for invite, it really does seem like you have some good people here. I watched the youtube video for the New Hampshire OC people and I don't agree with their tactics. The one guy was yelling at the cop and straight up lying about what was going on. I thought this site was the same, I was wrong.

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nitrovic wrote:

longwatch wrote:

If you want to chat about this offline come to our next meetup, if I'm there at least you can hear our side of the story. Seriously no one in the Tonys group was seeking out the police to set them up or acted as you heard. If anything I expected Tonys to be 'safer' for OC than other places.

The big lesson I learned is that playing an 'I said, he said' game is tough to win without something to back my story up. This is one reason a FOIA was requested, what it discovered was unexpected to say the least.
I expect a lot of people have learned this lesson and like me, fully intend to be able to back their side of the story up, should it happen again.

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Agreed. I also expect Tony's to be "safer" for OC considering they are very pro police and pro military. They really are good people working there (i grew up in the area and know them well). Maybe they just got spooked with the whole situation. Thanks for invite, it really does seem like you have some good people here. I watched the youtube video for the New Hampshire OC people and I don't agree with their tactics. The one guy was yelling at the cop and straight up lying about what was going on. I thought this site was the same, I was wrong.

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Here, I'm assuming that we all love the U.S. and I think that all but a small minority on this forum appreciate the police and everything they do. I love this country because it is free and the day that I am forced to bow to even simple requests by the police is the day that this country ceases to be free. We live in a land where "papers please" is a request we can confidently deny, for NOW.
I think the problem here is that you have a lot of good cops in your family so you rightly have a good impression of Police. The truth is that maybe only 5% of the cops in this country are bad, and that's more than enough to make someone worry, esp. when we do something some people either take the wrong way or just don't like.
All that aside, welcome to the forum. We're glad to have you, any LEO, or anyone else who feels the way you do here.

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Edited because Nitrovic saw youtube.

Nitrovic - I hope you watch all the events that are posted about events in VA. Fair Lakes was a pretty interesting experience,a viewer can't fully appreciate what happened there, you don't see any video of the helicopter, lol. Though it was a nice interaction with the police, as most of them have been. You'd probably be surprised to learn that many of us actually write to the stations after a good interaction and commend the guys who respond for their professionalism, as well as get information on the bad ones.

Reactions like yours are reasons why the majority of us are now also armed with voice recorders, and the occasional video camera. If you'll note most of the video is unedited - (side note - I'll stop throwing inflamitory comments in my videos and just let the raw video run from now on, lol) - where as most of the video you see from an anti-gun rights perspective is edited heavily, and in some cases quite poorly. If you haven't noticed the media isn't exactly pro gun, so we've had to work the net to get the word out.

By the way, welcome to the board

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Edited because Nitrovic saw youtube.

Nitrovic - I hope you watch all the events that are posted about events in VA. Fair Lakes was a pretty interesting experience,a viewer can't fully appreciate what happened there, you don't see any video of the helicopter, lol. Though it was a nice interaction with the police, as most of them have been. You'd probably be surprised to learn that many of us actually write to the stations after a good interaction and commend the guys who respond for their professionalism, as well as get information on the bad ones.

Reactions like yours are reasons why the majority of us are now also armed with voice recorders, and the occasional video camera. If you'll note most of the video is unedited - (side note - I'll stop throwing inflamitory comments in my videos and just let the raw video run from now on, lol) - where as most of the video you see from an anti-gun rights perspective is edited heavily, and in some cases quite poorly. If you haven't noticed the media isn't exactly pro gun, so we've had to work the net to get the word out.

By the way, welcome to the board

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