State Rep. Friske circulates "Cops Only Concealed Carry" Wisconsin Gun Owners

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Doug Huffman wrote:

pkbites wrote:

I'm confused. [active] Wisconsin LEO's could already carry concealed under state law.

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Re 'states' rights'; LEOSA is federal and might need to be implemented in state statute. And LEOSA applies to "retired" and "qualified" LEO.

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Theres nothing in HR218 that I've read that requires any action on behalf of the states.

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What I suspect is that there is a bit of misdirection going on here by the sponsor of this legislation.

The same kind of legislation passed in Illinois, but it was because a lot of agencies refused to allow retired officers to qualify, so the ISP did an end run around those agencies and allowed them to qualify without going through the agency they retired from.

It is only a matter of time until one of these retired cops shoots someone and the agency he retired from is going to be on the hook.

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Mis-direction by a legislator? Ya think?

Without intelligent skepticism we are lost to the sheeple-dogs of war.

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I am a retired Police Officer from Wisconsin living full time in Florida. I also have HR218
a federal statute which permits me to CCW anywhere in the country. The problem though is you need a Photo ID from the Department you retired from. My department doesn't issue them to a retiree. So while in Florida, the public has the right to CCW after the class and state ID card, I cannot because some Wisconsin departments will not issue a retiree an ID card because they do not want them to CCW after they retire. The state of Florida will certify me as to the shooting course.

HR218 does no good for any retiree, anywhere if there department doesn't want them to CCW after retiring. All they have to do is what mine does, not issue a photo retirement ID to any retiree.

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comp45acp wrote:

WGO has proven to be no friend of any gun owner in this state. They did as much as anyone to defeat the Personal Protection Act. Corey Graff was openly and actively lobbying against the bill in the joint committee hearing room. He is not to be trusted with our Second Amendment rights and is anathema to our to our goals of firearms liberty in this state.

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You can say that again.

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Good ol' Corey Graff. He has to keep stirring the pot to keep the money coming in.

How much money? Take a look at the report filed with the state Ethics Board here for 2007.

There was hardly anything going on last year, yet Corey paid himself $58,000 for one hour of communicating with legislators. Why are people letting Corey Graff fleece them out of their hard-earned money?

I don't like the idea of retired law enforcement officers being able to carry while the rest of us can't. And I don't think that Friske's bill is going anywhere, anyhow.

Former state Senator Dave Zien didn't want retired officers to be able to carry when the rest of us couldn't, which is why he wrote the training requirements for HR218 into the Personal Protection Act, so that retired officers could carry only if the rest of us could as well.

But Corey Graff didn't like Dave Zien, so he spent the money contributed to WGO's political action committee to help the Democrats defeat Zien by running radio ads against Dave. Now Corey is using Dave's own talking points.

Corey Graff is pond scum.

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Monkeyleg wrote:

Corey Graff is pond scum.

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Yes he is.

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Monkeyleg wrote:

Good ol' Corey Graff. He has to keep stirring the pot to keep the money coming in.

How much money? Take a look at the report filed with the state Ethics Board here for 2007.

There was hardly anything going on last year, yet Corey paid himself $58,000 for one hour of communicating with legislators. Why are people letting Corey Graff fleece them out of their hard-earned money?

I don't like the idea of retired law enforcement officers being able to carry while the rest of us can't. And I don't think that Friske's bill is going anywhere, anyhow.

Former state Senator Dave Zien didn't want retired officers to be able to carry when the rest of us couldn't, which is why he wrote the training requirements for HR218 into the Personal Protection Act, so that retired officers could carry only if the rest of us could as well.

But Corey Graff didn't like Dave Zien, so he spent the money contributed to WGO's political action committee to help the Democrats defeat Zien by running radio ads against Dave. Now Corey is using Dave's own talking points.

Corey Graff is pond scum.

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I've wasted some time at the

http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2007Session/LEOEL.asp?PrinID=3792

and haven't found many gun lobbying groups or lobbyists. I've no truck with WGO/Corey Graff but he is there and he is not an NRA assiliate.

Monkey hump got stuck on the "one hour of communicating" and didn't ask or answer the obvious follow-up question. His non-NRA opponent is ranked eleventh in all Wisconsin lobbying organizations for hours expended (page two)! NRA occurs on page 48. Did I miss any?

http://ethics.state.wi.us/LobbyingRegistrationReports/LobbyingOverview.htm

http://ethics.state.wi.us/LobbyingRegistrationReports/SLAESummary_AllOrgs_hour.pdf

If hump wants to denigrate the significance of the State Ethics Board filings, that's OK but he brought it up. If hump wants to denigrate WGO, that's OK too. Screw the NRA and its affilates.

Believe nothing you read or hear without validating it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA Kiss My A$$

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Doug Huffman wrote:

I've wasted some time at the

http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2007Session/LEOEL.asp?PrinID=3792

and haven't found many gun lobbying groups or lobbyists.  I've no truck with WGO/Corey Graff but he is there and he is not an NRA assiliate.

Monkey hump got stuck on the "one hour of communicating" and didn't ask or answer the obvious follow-up question.  His non-NRA opponent is ranked eleventh in all Wisconsin lobbying organizations for hours expended (page two)!  NRA occurs on page 48.  Did I miss any?

http://ethics.state.wi.us/LobbyingRegistrationReports/LobbyingOverview.htm

http://ethics.state.wi.us/LobbyingRegistrationReports/SLAESummary_AllOrgs_hour.pdf

If hump wants to denigrate the significance of the State Ethics Board filings, that's OK but he brought it up.  If hump wants to denigrate WGO, that's OK too.  Fsuck the NRA and its affilates.

Believe nothing you read or hear without validating it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

Either we are equal or we are not.  Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.  NRA Kiss My A$$

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"Monkey hump." Very mature, Doug.

Do you really believe that Corey Graff spent 3,127 hours lobbying in 2007? That's the equivalent of 52 60-hour work weeks. And yet one hour of communicating with legislators?

The NRA's report is here: http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2007Session/LEOEL.asp?PrinID=2842.

They don't show 3,000+ hours of lobbying, because they report only the time they're actually lobbying. And there wasn't much to lobby last year.

AB35--the Castle Doctrine bill--got shuttled off to Senator Lena Taylor's committee, where it would never see the light of day. Even if it had, Doyle would have made sure that it wouldn't have gotten enough votes for a veto override.

AB581 didn't need any lobbying. The Democrats were free to vote for the bill, since any legislator who didn't would be branded as a gun confiscator come the November elections. That's why the bill passed with such a huge majority. If Doyle hadn't wanted the bill to pass, it wouldn't have. (Rest assured that he'll make mention of the bill he signed when he runs in 2010).

SB104, Senator Spencer Coggs' bill to ban private gun sales, was DOA when it hit Cogg's own committee. One of the key Democrats had already been talked to by the NRA, and wouldn't vote for the bill. Too bad Corey Graff has been on the outs with legislators for the last five years. Otherwise he would have known that, and wouldn't have spent money on a radio ad in Milwaukee.

What ticks me off about WGO is that Corey Graff is milking issues for everything he can get, and there's so many gun owners who fall for his scam.

If anyone is curious about WGO, call the Wisconsin Department of Licensing and Registration, and ask to speak to Mick. He's the person in charge of registration for tax-exempt organizations such as WGO. Ask for all tax returns and paperwork for WGO for the last five years. If you do, you'll find that Corey Graff has a company he owns called "Graff Communications," and that WGO pays Graff Communications no small amount of money.

WGO takes in more money than any other state gun group I know of, with the possible exception of the Safari Club. And where does WGO's money go?

That's my beef.

As for the WCCA, it's not an NRA affiliate. But I can tell you that I spent a lot more than one hour communicating with legislators last year.

I'm just the messenger, so shoot me if you like, but the truth is the truth.

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Monkeyleg wrote:

"Monkey hump." Very mature, Doug.

Do you really believe that Corey Graff spent 3,127 hours lobbying in 2007? That's the equivalent of 52 60-hour work weeks. And yet one hour of communicating with legislators?

The NRA's report is here: http://ethics.state.wi.us/scripts/2007Session/LEOEL.asp?PrinID=2842.

They don't show 3,000+ hours of lobbying, because they report only the time they're actually lobbying. And there wasn't much to lobby last year.

AB35--the Castle Doctrine bill--got shuttled off to Senator Lena Taylor's committee, where it would never see the light of day. Even if it had, Doyle would have made sure that it wouldn't have gotten enough votes for a veto override.

AB581 didn't need any lobbying. The Democrats were free to vote for the bill, since any legislator who didn't would be branded as a gun confiscator come the November elections. That's why the bill passed with such a huge majority. If Doyle hadn't wanted the bill to pass, it wouldn't have. (Rest assured that he'll make mention of the bill he signed when he runs in 2010).

SB104, Senator Spencer Coggs' bill to ban private gun sales, was DOA when it hit Cogg's own committee. One of the key Democrats had already been talked to by the NRA, and wouldn't vote for the bill. Too bad Corey Graff has been on the outs with legislators for the last five years. Otherwise he would have known that, and wouldn't have spent money on a radio ad in Milwaukee.

What ticks me off about WGO is that Corey Graff is milking issues for everything he can get, and there's so many gun owners who fall for his scam.

If anyone is curious about WGO, call the Wisconsin Department of Licensing and Registration, and ask to speak to Mick. He's the person in charge of registration for tax-exempt organizations such as WGO. Ask for all tax returns and paperwork for WGO for the last five years. If you do, you'll find that Corey Graff has a company he owns called "Graff Communications," and that WGO pays Graff Communications no small amount of money.

WGO takes in more money than any other state gun group I know of, with the possible exception of the Safari Club. And where does WGO's money go?

That's my beef.

As for the WCCA, it's not an NRA affiliate. But I can tell you that I spent a lot more than one hour communicating with legislators last year.

I'm just the messenger, so shoot me if you like, but the truth is the truth.

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Yep, monkey hump is about as mature as monkeyleg. They're both epithets, one you seem to like and the other not - pffft, piffledust, Anony Mouse.

If you have a problem with some lobbyist's honesty then that's what the State Ethics Board is for.

I have a problem with the NRA's principles and that is what an open forum is for, and I use my name. For whom are you the messenger, Fendry, and how did you gain your access, Fendry? What did you sell for your access, messenger boy?

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

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Man, there's a lot of attitude around here.

I assumed that many posters here would know by my previous posts that my name is Dick Baker, and I'm the person who founded the WCCA.

I'll go you one better. My phone number is 414-543-1916. Doesn't matter anyway, as that's the number on the WCCA's website.

If anyone wants to talk about any of this--without the attitude--just give me a call.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

The PPA was an NRA approved and sponsored bill requiring concealed carry in an anomalous open carry state.

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This is false.

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/SB-403.pdf

Read the bill for yourself. There is no concealment requirement that would turn it Texas style.

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Gentlemen, heated debates are wonderful, but please be respectful of one another. Nobody was ever turned to the other point of view after being insulted....

Thanks.

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Monkeyleg wrote:

Man, there's a lot of attitude around here.

I assumed that many posters here would know by my previous posts that my name is Dick Baker, and I'm the person who founded the WCCA.

I'll go you one better. My phone number is 414-543-1916. Doesn't matter anyway, as that's the number on the WCCA's website.

If anyone wants to talk about any of this--without the attitude--just give me a call.

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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/search.php?s=1&q=baker

http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/

The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association is the only gun-rights organization in Wisconsin that is solely devoted to getting a shall-issue concealed weapons bill passed in our state.

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This is opencarry.org.

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This is opencarry.org.

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Yup. And making open carry common is a good way to get people accustomed to having citizens carrying guns, which will make getting concealed carry easier.

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It is my opinion that concealed carry and open carry are incompatible as concealed carry is administered by shall issue States. To conflate (read together to make somehow equivalent) the two except as Alaska and Vermont is misleading because concealment requires a permit (an infringement) and a permit requires training (an infringement) and training is fee based - in the limit selling an exception to an infringed Right.

Now the NRA 'member' will trot out the exceptions that prove the general rule - permitted or mandatory concealed carry is an infringement.

ETA: Wisconsin is an anomalous open carry state and its citizens are better served by removing the anomaly rather than wasting political capital on reversing inculcated law. Only the NRA and pols practicing access based politics (pay to play) benefit from tilting at windmills.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

The PPA was an NRA approved and sponsored bill requiring concealed carry in an anomalous open carry state.

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This is false.

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2005/data/SB-403.pdf

Read the bill for yourself. There is no concealment requirement that would turn it Texas style.

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With respect Lonnie, only you have introduced "Texas style." Thank you for carrying my quote unaltered.

Did the bill legalize open carry? If not then it is the same ol' same old and I know whats happening when only my leg is warm and wet.

Please if you will, precisely specify what is false in "The PPA was an NRA approved and sponsored bill requiring concealed carry in an anomalous open carry state." because there are a number of assertions in the statement.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

With respect Lonnie, only you have introduced "Texas style." Thank you for carrying my quote unaltered.

Did the bill legalize open carry? If not then it is the same ol' same old and I know whats happening when only my leg is warm and wet.

Please if you will, precisely specify what is false in "The PPA was an NRA approved and sponsored bill requiring concealed carry in an anomalous open carry state." because there are a number of assertions in the statement.

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I asked you to point out where in SB403 requires concealment only. I posted a link to the bill as finalized and vetoed by Governor Doyle. I read through the entirety of it and I can find NO language in there making it a requirement for those getting a CCW to conceal or a provision of law prohibiting.

What do you mean by "legalize open carry"? Are you seriously making the argument that open carry is only legal if it's stated in the law "open carry is legal". That's completely ass backwards in terms of understanding American criminal law. If it is not allowed, then it's lawful and legal. That's why the Millwaukee County DA is having a hard time making any sort of charge stick on Parabellum, in case you missed the thread (though I could swear you were posting in it).

You know what, Doug, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. If your concerns is that open carry is not "legal" enough, infringed upon by the "encasement" requirement for being in a vehicle from chapter 167, or with the 1000 feet school zone rule from chapter 948, then why don't you hire an attorney and file a lawsuit against those provisions under A1/S25 of the state constitution and the 14th amendment to the US constitution?

I'm sure we've got PLENTY of people who'd be willing to provide the legal fund with some money. Instead of sitting here whining about Monkeyleg and WCCA, misrepresenting SB403 to require concealment, whining that State Law doesn't specifically protect open carry as lawful (despite the state preemption law on "bearing") and so on, why don't you do something actually, you know, productive instead of belittling everyone else around you?