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Thread: As a CHP holder, how do you buy a gun from a private owner?

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    Regular Member Custodian's Avatar
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    Im looking to buy from a private owner. We are both NC LEO. Do I get a recipt of sale or purchase? Do I keep it in an adamantium box? How does this process work? And if so, can you give me the links for the law that backs this for North Carolina?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Custodian wrote:
    Im looking to buy from a private owner. We are both NC LEO. Do I get a recipt of sale or purchase? Do I keep it in an adamantium box? How does this process work? And if so, can you give me the links for the law that backs this for North Carolina?
    I am a bit perplexed by the contradictions in your posting versus your profile.
    In the above you claim to be "NC LEO" but in your profile you state you are "Non-Law Enforcement: Uncertified Correctional Officer Trainee & Apprentice."

    In either position, you could not be in the situation of lacking such basic information or of having the resources at your finger tips to acquire it. What or who are you really? Others have probably not responded because you just don't add up right.

    However, for the benefit of those others that might have a similar question, I direct you to http://grnc.org/ (Grass Roots North Caolina) where I am sure that you can get direction to all laws specific to NC.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Read this as to explain my intentional contradiction.

    http://forums.prisonofficer.org/main...stitution.html

    The contradiction stems from NCDOC, a law enforcement agency that doesn't want (in my experience) its officers to exercise powers and priviledges that stem from this line of work.

    Also, I would need to be certified by the state as a Correctional Officer before I could think of carrying under LEOSA, which currently I am not, but I should be going off soon (heh, maybe, however, I have been duped before). This agency, allows you to work with NO training for up to a year (pretty much making it day to day and hoping you get it right).

    So let's recap.

    I am a Law Enforcer inside one of the state's most dangerous facilities (their version of a max/supermax) but with little idea of what laws (read as: policy) to enforce. Oh and by the way, I have to buy my policy book. That's right, the stuff I need to know to do my job correctly, I have to buy it and wait 4-6 weeks for it. Don't believe me? Well its okay, however, apply and become a Correctional Officer (its not that hard to get on, just a pulse and a clean background) and find out for yourself. Get almost a year to develop bad habits and hopefully, a month in Basic Correctional Officer Training school should iron out those habits... maybe? I got injured this weekend by a moron co-worker, my prison never got back to me on my workman's comp even though I'm healing nicely without the expensive meds, so if I sound defensive, its because I am, and a little fed up with how things work at the job at the moment.

    Welcome to the world of Corrections.

    I decided to edit my profile from the contradiction since it's hard to understand and I was a little angry when I was typing at that time.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Custodian wrote:
    Read this as to explain my intentional contradiction.

    http://forums.prisonofficer.org/main...stitution.html

    The contradiction stems from NCDOC, a law enforcement agency that doesn't want (in my experience) its officers to exercise powers and priviledges that stem from this line of work.
    Forums do not provide the specifics/cites required - the are opinions. Either NC statutes say you are a LEO or you are not. Statute laws, DOC operating policies and guidelines as well as Institutional Operating Policies determine limits of authority.

    I can only speak knowledgeably of Virginia where Corrections Officers are not LEOs. It is a completely differant category and a differant set of rules/statutes. For example: a certified VaDOC officer is only authorized to carry an issued/approved weapon in the performance of his/her duties - not when off duty.

    I have to wonder if the state and the NCDOC approves of your use of an image of the state issued badge for personal use.

    I have to consider that your statement above "intentional contradiction" may be indeed a freudian slip closer to the truth than not. Jerk not my chain.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    So ya want statutes?

    I've been at work so I haven't had time to reply.

    Federal Bill HR218 "Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act of 2004"

    http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html [the actual text of the bill signed into law]

    This law applies to persons who meet the definition listed below of a "Qualified Law Enforcement Officer."
    qualified law enforcement officer means an employee of a governmental agency who--
    `(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;
    `(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;
    `(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;
    `(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;
    `(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and
    `(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    What kind of "Identification" is Necessary Under HR 218?
    (d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification [emphasis added] issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

    Next info is from... http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/ (North Carolina General Assembly)

    North Carolina General Statute 17

    17C‑2. Definitions. Unless the context clearly otherwise requires, the following definitions apply in this Chapter:
    (1) Commission. – The North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission.
    (2) Criminal justice agencies. – The State and local law‑enforcement agencies, the State correctional agencies, other correctional agencies maintained by local governments, and the juvenile justice agencies, but shall not include deputy sheriffs, special deputy sheriffs, sheriffs' jailers, or other sheriffs' department personnel governed by the provisions of Chapter 17E of these General Statutes.
    (3) Criminal justice officers. – The administrative and subordinate personnel of all the departments, agencies, units or entities comprising the criminal justice agencies who are sworn law‑enforcement officers, both State and local, with the power of arrest;State correctional officers; State probation/parole officers; State probation/parole officers‑surveillance; officers, supervisory and administrative personnel of local confinement facilities; State juvenile justice officers; chief court counselors; and juvenile court counselors.

    This is an excerpt from NC General Statute 148-4

    § 148‑4. Control and custody of prisoners; authorizing prisoner to leave place of confinement.
    The Secretary of Correction shall have control and custody of all prisoners serving sentence in the State prison system, and such prisoners shall be subject to all the rules and regulations legally adopted for the government thereof. Any sentence to imprisonment in any unit of the State prison system, or to jail to be assigned to work under the State Department of Correction, shall be construed as a commitment, for such terms of imprisonment as the court may direct, to the custody of the Secretary of Correction or his authorized representative, who shall designate the places of confinement within the State prison system where the sentences of all such persons shall be served. The authorized agents of the Secretary shall have all the authority of peace officers for the purpose of transferring prisoners from place to place in the State as their duties might require and for apprehending, arresting, and returning to prison escaped prisoners, and may be commissioned by the Governor, either generally or specially, as special officers for returning escaped prisoners or other fugitives from justice from outside the State, when such persons have been extradited or voluntarily surrendered. Employees of departments, institutions, agencies, and political subdivisions of the State hiring prisoners to perform work outside prison confines may be designated as the authorized agents of the Secretary of Correction for the purpose of maintaining control and custody of prisoners who may be placed under the supervision and control of such employees, including guarding and transferring such prisoners from place to place in the State as their duties might require, and apprehending and arresting escaped prisoners and returning them to prison.

    So now, let's recap.

    North Carolina Statutes 17A-1 through 17A-9 now recodified as 17C-1 through 17C-12 defines "criminal justice officers" as law enforcement officers. North Carolina State Correction Officers are North Carolina Law Enforcement, Special Peace Officers, but are not police officers. We have one power of arrest as defined in 148-4 the arrest of an escaped inmate, which is a limited scope of arrest, but LEOSA doesn't say how broad or limited these statutory arrest powers must be to be covered, but must be derivied by statute to be "qualified active law enforcement officer".

    In fact, when HR 218 was lobbied by Lt. Steve Young the former National President of the Fraternal Order of Police, one of the examples he cited as an example of the need for this bill was this:

    Correctional Officer Leslie John Besci, a sixteen year veteran with the North Carolina Department of Correction who was beaten to death with a baseball bat in an unprovoked attack. The officer had just returned from work when he was attacked by two former inmates of the prison where he worked.

    http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimon...amp;wit_id=755 (where this text was found)

    And the FOP has stated numerous times that LEOSA covers NCDOC.

    Require any more information? Let me know, I need to do the research anyways.




    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Custodian,

    I may be wrong but this is my understanding of the rules: (I have purchased face-to-face (FTF) in Georgia.)

    On the Federal level (i.e. ATF) if neither party are FFL holders and both parties are legaly able to participate in the transaction (state resident, of age, etc.) the only paperwork is the transfer of $. Buyer gives Seller payment, Seller gives Buyer item. Any other documents is up to you. Verifaction of residency, age, etc. can be done by looking at the parties DL's. Personaly, I would prefer not to have any paper trail.

    As to NC laws, I'd start out with 'handgunlaw.us' and if you think it is required follow up at grnc and perhaps an attorney. Although, if you get an attorney involved you might as well buy new from from a gun store.

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    2Custodian wrote:
    Im looking to buy from a private owner. We are both NC LEO. Do I get a recipt of sale or purchase? Do I keep it in an adamantium box? How does this process work? And if so, can you give me the links for the law that backs this for North Carolina?
    This is from a publication from Roy Cooper's office. Roy says:

    Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell,

    give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the

    purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the

    sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver

    possesses a valid North Carolina-issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain

    a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction,

    typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies

    throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-402(a)

    In addition, this State law has been interpreted to require that a pistol permit be

    obtained by the receiver of a handgun when such person inherits a pistol as a result of the

    death of another person. The permit should be given to and retained by the seller or donor

    of the handgun. In such a case, the permit should be given to the executor or receiver of

    the estate of the deceased person. If the purchaser or receiver uses a North Carolina- issued

    concealed carry permit for the transfer, the seller should reference such permit on a bill of

    sale.

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    Wiley wrote:
    Custodian,

    As to NC laws, I'd start out with 'handgunlaw.us' and if you think it is required follow up at grnc and perhaps an attorney. Although, if you get an attorney involved you might as well buy new from from a gun store.
    Sounds about right to me.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Custodian wrote:
    So ya want statutes?

    I've been at work so I haven't had time to reply.

    Federal Bill HR218 "Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act of 2004"

    http://www.leaa.org/218/218text.html [the actual text of the bill signed into law]

    (SNIP)

    So now, let's recap.

    North Carolina Statutes 17A-1 through 17A-9 now recodified as 17C-1 through 17C-12 defines "criminal justice officers" as law enforcement officers. North Carolina State Correction Officers are North Carolina Law Enforcement, Special Peace Officers, but are not police officers. We have one power of arrest as defined in 148-4 the arrest of an escaped inmate, which is a limited scope of arrest, but LEOSA doesn't say how broad or limited these statutory arrest powers must be to be covered, but must be derivied by statute to be "qualified active law enforcement officer".

    (SNIP)

    http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimon...amp;wit_id=755 (where this text was found)

    And the FOP has stated numerous times that LEOSA covers NCDOC.

    Require any more information? Let me know, I need to do the research anyways.
    Now that's a well referenced cite and I can see and follow the substantial difference between the NC laws and those of Va. Am I still correct in that you need a permit to carry concealed when off duty or is there a provision for that also?

    We sometimes find that departments train you (some better than others) then leave you hanging in the breeze alone when you stub your toe or break your leg. Good thorough knowledge (laws, DOPs and IOPs) is your best defense/offense and in my opinion is never adequate taught in the academy.

    Appreciate your efforts. Thanks.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
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    We sometimes find that departments train you (some better than others) then leave you hanging in the breeze alone when you stub your toe or break your leg. Good thorough knowledge (laws, DOPs and IOPs) is your best defense/offense and in my opinion is never adequate taught in the academy.



    Well the sad part is if I was involved in a self defense shooting, DOC would instantly fire me. (I actually saw the paper work on this one, a C/O was fired for a self-defense shooting) So needless to say, I'm looking else where for a gainful law enforcement job.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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