Make mine a wheelgun?

Custodian · Mar 11, 2008

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I dunno what got me thinking about wheelguns. Oh wait, thats a lie. I keep hearing about all these FTF, stovepipes, etc. And I got to contemplating. What if that happened when you would depend on your handgun to defend your life? There is no such thing as a "do over" when it comes to life and death. Because no matter what the manufacturer of semi-auto all those type of guns are prone to the problems of that particular design, right?

So as my first gun, the one that would never leave my home, my cherry breaker as a handgun owner, a spinnin' wheelgun. So I started hunting for a decent priced minimum 6 shot (cause there are bad guys with hi-cap mags out there) revolver.

The Taurus 617 caught my eye in a 2 inch snubbie .357 (with .38 option) and is a 7 shot in either blue steel or shadow gray titanium. (Comes down to a matter of weight 19.9 Titanium vs. 28.3 Steel)

Has anyone bought one? handled one? Does the wheel of the revolver fall to the left or right? is it silly to think of getting a wheelgun as my first or should I stick to the hi-cap world of semi-autos? Is it a good idea to stagger load such a revolver with .38 and .357 rounds? Are you tired of me asking an omnibus of questions?

The Custodian

Sa45auto · Mar 11, 2008

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I was looking for a handgun to leave with my wife when I am gon and so on. I wanted a .357 and thought I wanted a used S&W.

I went to look for one at the best gun store in my state.

My limit was $300. All the S&W in my price range were pretty well used.

Then I saw a Taurus 617 SS. It looked new, was smooth ant the workmanship was every bit as good as the S&W. It was $290 used.

I bought it.

I love it

My wife loves it.

I only get to carry it about half the time.

The stainless steel cleans up real well. I carry it with a coule of speed loaders.

Custodian · Mar 11, 2008

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So I went out looking for the Taurus model 617. And it was.... nowhere to be found.
Apparently, it is SO popular that it has been bought out at every gun store I went to today.

Dang it.

So I went online to gunbroker. They have some under 300 which would end up being 300 with the transfer fees etc.

So it is worth buying from online? Or should I have settled for say a Rossi .357 at 306USD? Its a six shot .357 felt good Are Rossi's any good? But seriously, I want that seventh shot. Why settle for six, when one more could mean the difference?

imperialism2024 · Mar 11, 2008

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I'm a fan of wheelguns, though I lean more toward Rugers. I'm hesitant to trust my life to anything other than a wheelgun, to be entirely honest. You have a misfire? Just pull the trigger again.

The only downside, in my mind, is that they are more conspicuous to load and (especially) unload. That is, instead of just popping a mag in the bottom and racking the slide, you need to swing out the cylinder, pop in a speedloader, take out the speedloader, and swing the cylinder back in. If you don't need to do that much, then it's a non-issue.

Kevin Jensen · Mar 11, 2008

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This guy reloads his revolver faster than I can a semi auto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsLx5ISBXw4

Sa45auto · Mar 11, 2008

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Custodian wrote:

So I went out looking for the Taurus model 617. And it was.... nowhere to be found.
Apparently, it is SO popular that it has been bought out at every gun store I went to today.

Dang it.

So I went online to gunbroker. They have some under 300 which would end up being 300 with the transfer fees etc.

So it is worth buying from online? Or should I have settled for say a Rossi .357 at 306USD? Its a six shot .357 felt good Are Rossi's any good? But seriously, I want that seventh shot. Why settle for six, when one more could mean the difference?

The 617 is sort of if you see it you buy it.

The fit and finish is better on the Taurus than the Rossi.

I have never had a Rossi but you can get a new one for the price of a use Taurus.

Your choice. My Taurua 617 was used and I love it. I have had it almost 2 years.

I have a friend that liked my 617 so much that he bought a Titanium one on line, no problem.

Next to the weight of my 1911 my 617 is light and easy to carry. If you shoot a box of full loaded .357 that is about all you want to shoot at one time. I don't think I would want a lighter gun.

You can shoot .38's all day long.

Good luck and enjoy.

surfj9009 · Mar 11, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

This guy reloads his revolver faster than I can a semi auto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsLx5ISBXw4

That......is.........INSANE.

deepdiver · Mar 11, 2008

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SGT Jensen wrote:

This guy reloads his revolver faster than I can a semi auto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsLx5ISBXw4

He did 6 rds, reload, 6 rds out of a revolver, on target, faster than I could probably do 12 rds out of my semi-auto without reloading and just aiming generally down range. Amazing. Having that guy next to you on the range would be the morale busting equivalent of finishing your bench press at the gym and then having some guy walk up and start curling what you were benching.

andywhite · Mar 12, 2008

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If you have a limit of 300 bucks, check out Dan Wesson revolvers. You can swap the barrels in a couple of seconds, they work very well, are robust, and any k frame holster will hold it.
DA, the triggers are a little heavy, but SA they're excellent.

Check them out. They're one of the best buys on the market for a 357 wheelie. And, they're just a little different than the average choices.

cREbralFIX · Mar 20, 2008

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First, there is a reason Taurus revolvers cost less.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html

My gun dealer won't even sell me a Taurus...I'll break it through use since I shoot so much. I figure he knows what he's talking about considering the huge number of guns he sells.

Forget Charter Arms too...unless it's an old model. Apparently the new model guns have low quality control (please research this on various forums).

Reliability is generally thrown about in terms of "overall" or "general" reliability. Unfortunately, this obfuscates many of the problems that revolver shooters run into. It is a different set of problems.

Revolvers are NOT more reliable, unless you're talking about sitting in a desk for 20 years. Cylinders are SENSITIVE components and need to be treated with care. A CLEAN revolver may be a bit more reliable, but for how long? You may get just a few cylinders before problems develop; it all depends on the gun.

The main trouble with them, though, is that a "jam" generally requires a trip to the gunsmith. Even a heavy recoiling round may cause the next round in cylinder to lengthen --and prevent the cylinder from rotating (or opening). Keep this in mind as you research problems with revolvers on the 'net (thehighroad.org, smithandwessonforum.com, etc).

***

That leaves Ruger and S&W for current production guns and Colt and Dan Wesson in the used market.

Ruger makes some nice guns, but their triggers require work. You will find a smooth trigger is essential, especially when the weight is in the 10+ pound range. Furthermore, the RETURN is also essential (it's how Jerry shot those 12 shots so fast) and you need to learn it.

S&W also makes good guns. Many people don't like the lock...doesn't matter to me. Others says the new guns are not as nice as their old ones. You may want to consider purchasing a used one. You're going to pay the money anyway...either for a new gun or in gun smithing fees. It would probably be best just to send it to S&W; there are not that many good revolversmiths around and at least there's a baseline of skill at the factory.

I really, really like S&W's Performance Center guns, but you'll pay for them. I picked up a new Registered Magnum for under $1000 recently and it has EVERYTHING you could want on a revolver except a gold bead front sight. It's ready to go with no waiting. The 3.5" barrel is great for CCW in either the strong side or appendix position.

Moonclips are like magazines for semi-autos. I highly recommend them...you've seen the demo clip. Unfortunately, that means you'll have to send out a Ruger (assuming you go with a current production gun) to get the cylinder cut. While it's there, get the cylinder holes chamferred and beveled for really fast reloads (the rounds just FLOW in).

If you decide to avoid moonclips, then speed loaders and speed strips are your only options. They're fairly slow to use...keep this in mind.

You may want to look at the Ruger GP100 with 3" barrel. The shorter barrel doesn't make much difference and it conceals more comfortably. Alternatively, maybe try the Ruger SP101 in the new 327 Federal cartridge. You still get six shots in a very small package with 3" barrel (the 3" barrel length seems to be the happy spot for control versus concealability).

***

You really do need to train with your revolver. The gun manipulation skills are VERY different from semi-autos. Unfortunately, most instructors focus on semi-autos, so you'll really need to interview any potential instructors for their revolver experience. Working the trigger efficiently is your most important skill. Fast reloads ON THE MOVE is another. Fortunately, you can do both at home with snap-caps (ALWAYS USE SNAP-CAPS when dry firing--regardless of make or model).

Finally, get involved with ICORE. There are ICORE shooters in NoVA who shoot once a month. I can get their contact info. These are informal matches and you will learn a lot by attending them.

***

Read Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern. The text is a bit difficult to read, but everything you need is in there. You'll have to dig a bit for his shooting procedures. It is worth it though--consider it a DIRECT look into the mind of the shooter of the 1930's. Remember, revolvers were king in the civilian market when it was written.

Custodian · Mar 20, 2008

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Currently this is my dream wheelgun since I plan to open carry and screw conceal carry.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=51525&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Scroll down to the bottom of the S&W page, to see its MAXIMUM POTENTIAL.

The rebates on the M&P are calling me with those two free mags. M&P 9mm or .40, or .45 maybe the way to go right now because of price and I just want a decent gun and its the one my department uses anyways good to get familiar with.

However, if I need a backup the Bersa Thunder .380 looks like a winner either that or S&W 686 revolver.

My wife has expressed more than a passing interest in a Browning Hi-Power.

mark edward marchiafava · Mar 20, 2008

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At the risk of sounding stupid, I was firing a friend's semi. Having fired only several dozen rounds, it jammed not once, but twice.
He told me I "wasn't pulling the trigger correctly."
HUH?

Custodian · Mar 20, 2008

imported post

What make and model semi-auto? How old is it? Has it been cleaned properly or serviced by a comptent gunsmith? What type of ammo? Did he buy it used? Flaw in the design? Too new of a design? Were you "limp wristing" (had to ask) was the magazine bent or damaged?

There are so many questions to ask when a gun doesn't shoot properly. I just don't know what to ask first.

mark edward marchiafava · Mar 20, 2008

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It was a Glock, not sure of the caliber.
Less than 3 years old.
As for the cleaning, ammo, etc, not really sure.
I held it the same as I do my Smith 586.
The magazine appeared to be just fine !!

cREbralFIX · Mar 20, 2008

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I have one of these! It's excellent. It has all the features I mentioned on the new Registered Magnum except the square butt, top strap checkering, and wood grips. The barrel is 5" long though--not so good for carry. They do offer one with a 4" barrel in 45 ACP (the new Thunder Ranch model). But if you want 8x357 Magnum, the Registered Magnum with a 3.5" barrel is the way to go.

Sa45auto · Mar 20, 2008

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cREbralFIX wrote:

First, there is a reason Taurus revolvers cost less.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html

My gun dealer won't even sell me a Taurus...I'll break it through use since I shoot so much. I figure he knows what he's talking about considering the huge number of guns he sells.

Forget Charter Arms too...unless it's an old model. Apparently the new model guns have low quality control (please research this on various forums).

Reliability is generally thrown about in terms of "overall" or "general" reliability. Unfortunately, this obfuscates many of the problems that revolver shooters run into. It is a different set of problems.

Revolvers are NOT more reliable, unless you're talking about sitting in a desk for 20 years. Cylinders are SENSITIVE components and need to be treated with care. A CLEAN revolver may be a bit more reliable, but for how long? You may get just a few cylinders before problems develop; it all depends on the gun.

The main trouble with them, though, is that a "jam" generally requires a trip to the gunsmith. Even a heavy recoiling round may cause the next round in cylinder to lengthen --and prevent the cylinder from rotating (or opening). Keep this in mind as you research problems with revolvers on the 'net (thehighroad.org, smithandwessonforum.com, etc).

***

That leaves Ruger and S&W for current production guns and Colt and Dan Wesson in the used market.

Ruger makes some nice guns, but their triggers require work. You will find a smooth trigger is essential, especially when the weight is in the 10+ pound range. Furthermore, the RETURN is also essential (it's how Jerry shot those 12 shots so fast) and you need to learn it.

S&W also makes good guns. Many people don't like the lock...doesn't matter to me. Others says the new guns are not as nice as their old ones. You may want to consider purchasing a used one. You're going to pay the money anyway...either for a new gun or in gun smithing fees. It would probably be best just to send it to S&W; there are not that many good revolversmiths around and at least there's a baseline of skill at the factory.

I really, really like S&W's Performance Center guns, but you'll pay for them. I picked up a new Registered Magnum for under $1000 recently and it has EVERYTHING you could want on a revolver except a gold bead front sight. It's ready to go with no waiting. The 3.5" barrel is great for CCW in either the strong side or appendix position.

Moonclips are like magazines for semi-autos. I highly recommend them...you've seen the demo clip. Unfortunately, that means you'll have to send out a Ruger (assuming you go with a current production gun) to get the cylinder cut. While it's there, get the cylinder holes chamferred and beveled for really fast reloads (the rounds just FLOW in).

If you decide to avoid moonclips, then speed loaders and speed strips are your only options. They're fairly slow to use...keep this in mind.

You may want to look at the Ruger GP100 with 3" barrel. The shorter barrel doesn't make much difference and it conceals more comfortably. Alternatively, maybe try the Ruger SP101 in the new 327 Federal cartridge. You still get six shots in a very small package with 3" barrel (the 3" barrel length seems to be the happy spot for control versus concealability).

***

You really do need to train with your revolver. The gun manipulation skills are VERY different from semi-autos. Unfortunately, most instructors focus on semi-autos, so you'll really need to interview any potential instructors for their revolver experience. Working the trigger efficiently is your most important skill. Fast reloads ON THE MOVE is another. Fortunately, you can do both at home with snap-caps (ALWAYS USE SNAP-CAPS when dry firing--regardless of make or model).

Finally, get involved with ICORE. There are ICORE shooters in NoVA who shoot once a month. I can get their contact info. These are informal matches and you will learn a lot by attending them.

***

Read Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern. The text is a bit difficult to read, but everything you need is in there. You'll have to dig a bit for his shooting procedures. It is worth it though--consider it a DIRECT look into the mind of the shooter of the 1930's. Remember, revolvers were king in the civilian market when it was written.

Gee I would like to know how much S&W paid him for that add?

Opinions are worth what you pay for them.

Like his source on Taurus Quality, who has owned 2 Taurus revolvers and still carries one. It must be really bad if he still carries it some times.

Yes Taurus costs less, they are made in Brazil, but that does not make them bad.

I would not say they are the best in the world. I have not owned all the revolvers in the world, but mine is as good as the S&W's I have shot.

Mine goes bang every time I pull the trigger and it has a lifetime warranty even though I didn't buy it new.

I know a gun dealer that won't sell Phoenix guns.

I bought one, from another dealer for $100 and after about 10,000 rounds thoughi it was a keeper and bought another.

Both little .22's have now close to 20,000 rounds through them. Not bad for $100 guns, and I have shot the heack out of those guns.

Who was wrong me or the gun salesman who wouldn't sell them?

Not much markup in Taurus or Phoenix, could that be his reason?

cREbralFIX · Mar 20, 2008

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The Phoenix HP22 that I have is a complete POS...it broke in under 100 rounds. The trigger will no longer move. Unfortunately, the company isn't around to fix it and I'm not going to put any money into a $99 gun.

I didn't say the gun dealer didn't sell Taurus guns; he does. I just shoot a lot and they won't hold up.

Sa45auto · Mar 20, 2008

imported post

cREbralFIX wrote:

The Phoenix HP22 that I have is a complete POS...it broke in under 100 rounds. The trigger will no longer move. Unfortunately, the company isn't around to fix it and I'm not going to put any money into a $99 gun.

Sorry to hear about your Phoenix,

They are subject to wear and I did have to have my slide replaced a couple of months back......It was free of course.

Call them @ 1-909-937-6900 Fax # 1-909-937-0060.

Arrange to send them the gun and they will repair or replace it.

Their address is;

4231 Brickell St.

Ontario, CA 91761

I had heard a year or so ago that they were no longer around, but that is not true (At least as of a couple of months ago when I last contacted them).

They are not expensive guns and I have had a couple of part failures, but I have shot them so much that I am not surprised, and they have always been fixed for free.

The first couple of times I just called them and they sent a new spring (That was my main problem), but on the slide I had to send the whole gun in.

Back in 2002 I was on a trip to do some work outside Nome Alaska and I fell on My HP 22 and I cracked the frame. I sent it in and they sent me a new gun and an extra Magazane

This time when I sent it in with a slide problem, they not only replaced the slide, but sent me a new magazine and lock for free.

Any way sorry to hear of your problem, but I hope this will help you get if fixed.

AbNo · Mar 21, 2008

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cREbralFIX wrote:

First, there is a reason Taurus revolvers cost less.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html
*massive paid advert*

I don't buy it for a minute. :X

[The main trouble with them, though, is that a "jam" generally requires a trip to the gunsmith. Even a heavy recoiling round may cause the next round in cylinder to lengthen --and prevent the cylinder from rotating (or opening).

Bullshyte. The round would cook-off from the heat generated by the pressure and forces required to lengthen a round that much.

I don't know who this Cunningham guy is, but I wouldn't trust him with a straw and thumbtacks.

He's either a S&W fan boy, or he's getting paid off by them/someone, and I don't trust a :cuss: thing he says.

He could also be employed by them. *cough*

Regardless, the amount of force required to cold-work a round enough, THROUGH A CYCLINDER would deform the entire cylinder, not just a chamber, AND, it would do it sooner rather than later, because metals get harder as they are cold-worked.

What COULD happen is, you'd see the chamber or cylinder walls crack, split, or shatter as the crystaline structure of the metal gets harder and harder from the forces of the rounds going off in the gun.

In short, you're more likely to see a cylinder or chamber crack before you see a round squeezed to the point it jams a revolver.

I would NEVER trust another word this man says, and I personally never will, he's one of those "Well, this BS sounds reasonable, I'll pass it off as fact" types, you know, the ones that tell you not to worry when they are shooting 2" steel plate at 25 yards, right next to you.

Processes of Industry and Metallurgy classes for the win! :celebrate

unevrno · Jul 25, 2008

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Sorry I'm late, but I just got here...... :lol:

I would not recommend a snubbie for anything but CC or a backup gun. A 2" barrel is not only notoriously inaccurate, compared to a longer ones, but there is more felt recoil and muzzle climb from the shorter barrel.

The above statement is only my own opinion, based upon my own experience with both snub nose and longer barreled revolvers. I have a Rossi2" stainless 6-shotsnubnose in .357 Magnum that is surprisingly controllable, but a quite superior wheelgun is my Taurus Model 686, 4" (compensated) 7-shot .357 in titanium. Not only does the integral compensator make the shots more accurate, but the longer barrel gives you more to hit an intruder with, should they get that close.

One thing I would recommend, however, is, any time you get a compensated firearm, be it semiauto or wheelgun, get cartridges with a low flash propellant. I haven't fired the Taurus at night yet, but I imagine it's gonna vent a good part of that flash right up in front of me.Might not be so great for the old night vision, if ya take my point.

Here's a pic of the two of us.......

Good luck, whatever you choose. Practice, practice, practice.

P.S. The wheel (cylinder) opens usually to the left, but can fall (rotate) either way, depending on how the gun is designed.

Make mine a wheelgun?

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