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Thread: Parenting, school, punishment and guns

  1. #1
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    Based on how quickly people have been to respond to "potential" dangers related to folks with guns - (see http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/153661) what's the likelihood of something along the lines of the following happening? I think it's possible.

    Background:

    Your a parent of an adolescent/s (11 - 18), you have a concealed carry permit, you own a/multiple guns, you store them safely. You have taught your child/ren to respect firearms, how to safely and properly use them.

    Your children are given allowance for work around the house, you regulate their spending and put their earnings into a bank account to teach them about savings and planning for the future. As adolescents are, they want everything regardless of practicality, because that's what their friends have. They figure if you won't spend the money, they should be able to spend their money on the things you want. As a responsible parent, you take the role in advising them against wasting it on frivoulous items, and explain how you understand their desire but can't allow them to do as they wish because it isn't in their best interest. This of course leads to tantrums, pouting, tears, what have you and days of negotiating.

    Scenario time:

    You don't budge. Your child is furious with you, and wants to get even. They goto school, start acting differently in class, and then goto the school counsellor. They tell the counsellor that they are unhappy and afraid at times to be at home with you their parent because you are carrying a gun around all the time and you get mad at them and raise your voice. Sometimes you do this when your drinking. It's hard for them to concentrate on their studies when they know they have to go home at the end of the day and be with their gun carrying angry parent and they feel helpless and don't know who else to turn to. Especially when the child has tried to communicate with the parent but has been yelled at and told to shut up.

    The police (child protective services) show up at your door, inspect your house, find liqour and beer - couple bottles of each. They ask you about the weapons and then take them from you in the best interest and safety of the child until the matter is resolved/further investigated.

    /end scenario

    I've never heard of anything like this happening, however I've been pretty pissed at my parents when I was younger. I don't see it being that much of a stretch of the imagination that it could happen based on news reports and the way people are reacting these days. Do any of you think that this could happen or worse? If people can prank call swat and have them show up on someone elses doorstep, why couldn't this happen?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Bohdi,

    It's been a few years since I worked in child protective services (yes, I was a baby snatcher). Even in today's extremely PC world with it's absolute zero tolerance for common sense, I do not see the confiscation/committment horror show you are worrying about. At least not if you have even the remnants of hind legs to stand on.

    THEY can snatch away your kid for up to 72 hours on an emergency basis with no prior paperwork, but if you offer any resistance THEY are going to need to regroup and get the cops to accompany them, which meansTHEY have the time to file an application for an emergency petition which means THEY are going to have to comply with pretty much all of the due process stuff before even coming into your home. You can stand at the threshhold and say "No entry without paperrwork" and it is valid. What THEY come back with is not a warrant but still a valid order the cops must enforce.



    Once the cops assist THEM in snatching up your kid(s) it will be very difficult for the cops to confiscate your firearms, as there are no more kid(s) in the home to be harmed by the firearms. As the whole kid snatching thing is a civil, as opposed to criminal, matter the cops cannot play the "evidence" game. (Of course, if you have Class III stuff laying about they can ask to see the tax stamps, but once that is done the cops have no reason to confiscate or seize anything.) [If you have a few hours, ask me about the difference between confiscate and sieze ]

    The real fun will begin after you have your child-snatching hearing in the Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court - a court not of record. There will be no transcript made by the court. If you want to pay for a court reporter you may. Most courts do not permit audio or video taping of proceedings.

    After you kid is returned to you because THEY could not convince the judge thast your kid(s) were in immenent danger of physical or emotional harm, THEY might attempt to proceed with "regular" child abuse/neglect" activities, such as insisting you get counseling or give away your firearms. THEY will do that after informing you in writing that THEY made a determination thast your kid(s) were exposed to something that meets the statutory definition and local interpretation of child abuse/neglect, and that your name and personal identifying data have been placed in the child abuse registry.

    Your next step is to appeal THEIR determination, Based on your scenario itshould be easy, but you will benefit from paying a lawyer versed in the intricasies to do m,ost of the speaking and writing for you.

    Once that is done, you will want to get another lawyer - this time one well-versed in civil rights violation suits. Again, based on your scenario, you should look at the expense as investing in your kid(s) college education fund and your retirement fund.

    Somewhere along the way, you will want to get a personal injury lawyer to sue THEM for the emotional scars THEY caused both the kid(s) and you. This is investing in your vacation-for-life fund.

    On the other hand, if MY kid pulled a stunt like that, I might be inclined to let them remain in foster care for the rest of their natural adolescence. I'd just concentrate on getting my property returned and suing THEM for my emotional scars.

    Remember, I said I might let my kid get away with that sort of thing. It depends on how good a story they cooked up about me.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
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    There are such frivolous/bogus/malicious events all the time. Complaints of spousal abuse alone clog up the court dockets. Usually a counter-suit for the same thing will result in a pissed off judge dismissing both counts, unless there is demonstrable harm done to one or the other party. In the meantime, you can end up receiving a restraining order - which puts you on weapons disability, at least for purposes of acquiring them - until it gets sorted. Not an enviable circumstance.

    I don't know what's to be done about it. There are scumbag wife beaters and child exploiters who need to be delt with, and their victims protected. It bothers me that the police have compulsory arrest orders for domestic violence complaints and yet also enjoy immunity when it turns out to be a crap case, but then how else are they supposed to sort out a 10-year bad marriage in a 10-minute intervention based on a neighbors noise complaint, say?

    Just trust that people are more decent than that, and when they prove you wrong, avail yourself of the best legal counsel you can get.

    -ljp

  4. #4
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    Skidmark - it was nice to meet you and yours on Sunday by the way. Thanks for the background on my hypothetical too. A thought excercise but one that if things were different than they were when I was a youth it might have been something I would have tried to pull if I was "angry" enough, and had the resources (internet) at my finger tips to while away some hours. I imagine I'd have gotten into much much more trouble as a youngster had this resource been available to me then.

    Given the circumstances of things in the news in the last 24 hours, it seemed to me like things are getting waaaay out of control and the scenario I posted might be plausible, thought I'd get some feedback. Heck, if I can think of it I'm sure some knucklehead youngster pissed at their parents would too. For the record I'd have to have a serious discussion followed by the appropriate amount of "reflection time" dedicated on a daily basis for the youth in question where they can re-direct their unspent energies and thoughts in a more positive and mutually beneficial way for both the family and the youth, lol.

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