Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Portsmouth Police Officer Shot During Confrontation

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    I felt this was of interest because it dealt with a man armed with a shotgun outside a residence.It is not known if it was his house or not.

    The officershave no idea who he is, why he is there, or if this is his home but he is OCing with a shotgun and a complaint was made.

    Many here willargue that this guy was perfectly legal and should have been left alone. But he was willing to kill officers so I can only question why he was there.


    [line]
    http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=600&sid=1347361

    March 9, 2008 - 8:47pm

    PORTSMOUTH, Va. (AP) - A Portsmouth police officer is recovering after being shot in the head during a standoff.

    Detective Jan Westerbeck says dispatchers received a call Sunday morning that an armed man was standing outside a residence. Westerbeck says officers arrived, saw a man with a shotgun and asked him to put down his weapon. But Westerbeck says the man began firing. Police returned fire and one officer was shot in the forehead with pellets from the shotgun. The man eventually put down his gun and surrendered.

    The officer was treated and released from the hospital. His identity hasn't been released.

    Bobbitt Jermal Gladney was charged with attempted capital murder and using a gun during a felony. Westerbeck says Gladney was not injured.

    The shooting is under investigation.



  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    Maybe this settles the "birdshot only works against birds" argument...

    Anyhow, interesting situation. Though the timeline is a bit weird. If the guy intentionally shot a police officer, why did it take him until "eventually" that he put his gun down? Maybe they were "shooting to wound" and it didn't work?

    Unless something is missing, or is being distorted. But the media never does that...

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    Whoops, didn't see that police did return fire...

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    We have at least two officers there and neither could hitthe guy?? Maybe they were too far away or did not want to hit a house in the background where innocent people could be.

    What gets me is that this guy even had a chance to draw up that shotgun, point it in their direction, and actually get a few rounds off.

    I guess the officers were not prepared for this and their guns were holstered.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Front Royal, VA, ,
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    We have at least two officers there and neither could hitthe guy?? Maybe they were too far away or did not want to hit a house in the background where innocent people could be.

    What gets me is that this guy even had a chance to draw up that shotgun, point it in their direction, and actually get a few rounds off.

    I guess the officers were not prepared for this and their guns were holstered.
    yeah it sounds like they could use some more training.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Oley, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    221

    Post imported post

    As I stare down the beginnings of a career as a peace officer I contimplate these situations constantly.

    How do you keep yourself safe and available for your family to continue to enjoy and yet balance the rights of individual that you have never met. It is never my intention to assume that everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. But it is a risk to assume to much.

    Thank you LEO229 for the post.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Southeast, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    5,974

    Post imported post

    More information on the story with video:

    http://www.wvec.com/news/portsmouth/....3e66823a.html
    (If you have to log in use:
    email: sludge3@hotmail.com
    PW: sludge3 )


    http://video.aol.com/video-detail/of...ion/2924267239


    ETA: Forgot my comment: I find it extraordinary, and not in a good way, they he is being defended (in the video) by people arguing that he was high or drunk, had been in a domestic dispute, and was taking out is anger by shooting his car and didn't mean to hit the officer. Apparently these are all mitigating circumstances making everything ok and the cops are just a bunch of jackbooted thugs oppressing the people.

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Cincinnati, ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Not sure about the particulars of this case, but it reminds me of the Keehoe (spelling) brothers firing at police officers in Wilmington, Ohio during a traffic stop. If I remember correctly nobody was hit even though multiple rounds were fired by both the BG and the LEO. Just goes to show how stress fire training should be taught, reinforced and made a part of requalification in LEO training.

    Please keep in mind that I'm not faulting anyone, just voicing an observation.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Diver... thanks for the video...

    The subject was reported shooting up his car after a domestic situation and was possibly high or intoxicated.

    Domestic situations are the most dangerous calls to go to.

    This may help othersunderstand why they "could be" disarmedwhen the police show up. The police get reports and have no idea what is going on. The police hear about these calls and learnthat some people with guns may actually shoot at officers in the face. :?


  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    Several things to note.

    First facts;

    1 This happened at 1 AM

    2. The Cops roll up and this guy is shooting his car

    3. Its dark they have no idea why he is shooting at...They tell him to put down the weapon...he keeps shooting.....and officer is hit.

    4. They shoot back and he drops his gun.

    5. He is charged



    The claims;

    1. Poor misunderstood boy having a bad day

    2. Not doing anything wrong just shooting his car.

    3. Didn't mean to hurt anybody a pellet just glanced off the car and hit the officer.

    4. The police shot up his house and didn't have to and need to be investigated.



    The real truth;

    1. He is higher than a kite, but he still chose to get that way so he is completely responsible for what he did.

    2. It is against the law to discharge a firearm in city limits (I am not from there, but it is everywhere else)

    3. His life is not in danger so HE IS BREAKING THE LAW.

    4. The police are called and tell him to stop breaking the law, he doesn't and an officer is hit.

    5. It is hard to see in the dark where some one is pointing the gun they are shooting and the officers had to believe he was pointing at them.

    6. The police missed him when they shot back, as they should have.(shot back that is and not missed him)

    7. He is one lucky knuckle head that he is still upright and taking nourishment, instead of pushing up daises.

    8. Did you notice that the bird shot didn't penetrate the car.....tells you something about bird shot doesn't it.......its for little birds.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Maybe this settles the "birdshot only works against birds" argument...
    Not necessarily. Absolutely no details are listed, the cops could have been fifty yards away from the guy for all we know. We don't know what type of shotgun, what type of shot and at what range.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    Flintlock wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Maybe this settles the "birdshot only works against birds" argument...
    Not necessarily. Absolutely no details are listed, the cops could have been fifty yards away from the guy for all we know. We don't know what type of shotgun, what type of shot and at what range.
    If you look at the video you will see pictures of his car and 6 to 8 inch patterns on the car, where he shot it. The shot took the paint off but did not penetrate. For that size of pattern he is in the 10 foot range from his car. Believe what you want but the patterns are clearly bird shot and not buck shot.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    Sa45auto wrote:
    Flintlock wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Maybe this settles the "birdshot only works against birds" argument...
    Not necessarily. Absolutely no details are listed, the cops could have been fifty yards away from the guy for all we know. We don't know what type of shotgun, what type of shot and at what range.
    If you look at the video you will see pictures of his car and 6 to 8 inch patterns on the car, where he shot it. The shot took the paint off but did not penetrate. For that size of pattern he is in the 10 foot range from his car. Believe what you want but the patterns are clearly bird shot and not buck shot.
    I had a long response planned but for fear of completely highjacking this thread, I think it may be best if we started another one if you'd like to continue this discussion.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    Flintlock wrote:
    Sa45auto wrote:
    Flintlock wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Maybe this settles the "birdshot only works against birds" argument...
    Not necessarily. Absolutely no details are listed, the cops could have been fifty yards away from the guy for all we know. We don't know what type of shotgun, what type of shot and at what range.
    If you look at the video you will see pictures of his car and 6 to 8 inch patterns on the car, where he shot it. The shot took the paint off but did not penetrate. For that size of pattern he is in the 10 foot range from his car. Believe what you want but the patterns are clearly bird shot and not buck shot.
    I had a long response planned but for fear of completely highjacking this thread, I think it may be best if we started another one if you'd like to continue this discussion.
    Do what you like, but if you want to see what Buckshot does to car doors, go to the following link.



    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot5.htm



    If you want to see birdshot pattens on metal doors (household doors and not car doors, and you will see the similarity to the car patterns in the video), go here.



    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot17.htm



    enjoy.



  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    Sa45auto wrote:
    Several things to note.

    ..... snipped
    Nicely done!

    I completely agree. But his mentor does not and alsobelieves the police were wrong in what they did. The arrested was a good boy and was only shooting his own car.....


  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    NoVA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    431

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    Many here willargue that this guy was perfectly legal and should have been left alone. ...
    You actually think that anyone here would argue that you shouldn't drop the shotgun when the cops tell you to? (Caveat: This isn't New Orleans just after Katrina)

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7,607

    Post imported post

    ufcfanvt wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Many here willargue that this guy was perfectly legal and should have been left alone. ...
    You actually think that anyone here would argue that you shouldn't drop the shotgun when the cops tell you to? (Caveat: This isn't New Orleans just after Katrina)
    Oh my yes!!!! I have been on here for while now and I have seen a great many things said. I wish I could search for the thread.

    One item was in regards to... "You see a man sneaking around the lot of a police station with a rifle. Do you approach him and ask why he is there or leave him alone?"

    Do you want to guess the answer???

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    LEO 229 wrote:
    Sa45auto wrote:
    Several things to note.

    ..... snipped
    Nicely done!

    I completely agree. But his mentor does not and alsobelieves the police were wrong in what they did. The arrested was a good boy and was only shooting his own car.....
    Thank you........ and as for his mentor........"There is none so blind as him who will not see...."

  19. #19
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    Sa45auto wrote:
    If you look at the video you will see pictures of his car and 6 to 8 inch patterns on the car, where he shot it. The shot took the paint off but did not penetrate. For that size of pattern he is in the 10 foot range from his car. Believe what you want but the patterns are clearly bird shot and not buck shot.
    Do what you like, but if you want to see what Buckshot does to car doors, go to the following link.



    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot5.htm

    If you want to see birdshot pattens on metal doors (household doors and not car doors, and you will see the similarity to the car patterns in the video), go here.



    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot17.htm

    enjoy.

    Not sure how the argument of lack of shotgun penetration on metal objects got started but I never made that argument. I have indeedmade the argument that #4 shot would be devestating to a human target at close range. Shotguns are not designed to be deep penetrators, that's part of the beauty of their design. At any rate, here is some info from a book I have called The Shotgun in Combat by Tony Lesce. On pages 36-47 it details how loads such as #4 shot penetrated the interior walls of a home (including the wads) and still had enough power toblow up a jug of water behind itat a range of ten feet from the wall. Even #8 shot (which was less impressive) had enough power to go through the wall and smash up the jug a bit.

    Having said that, I prefer to keep 00 Buck in my shotgun for extra penetration should I need it, but to say that #4 shot is for "birds only" and wouldn't devastate a human intruder hell bent on destruction would not be a correct assesment in my opinion. As a matter of fact,I think it is arguable that a 20 gauge or even a .410 shotgun at close range would suffice in a home defense situation regardless if there is enough penetration to blow out the back of a criminal. Depending on the home situation in which you live, that much penetration may not be the most desirable result. The bottom line is that a criminal would not want a load of shot of any sort, from any shotgun, entering his chest or face, particularly at the ranges that are given in a home defense environment. Numerous pellets of .36 caliber 12 gauge shot travelling at 1300 FPS seems to be a decent felon repellantto me.

    But to each their own..
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    Flintlock wrote:
    Not sure how the argument of lack of shotgun penetration on metal objects got started but I never made that argument. I have indeedmade the argument that #4 shot would be devastating to a human target at close range.........

    You know I don't know how we got off on to that either. To me it is not a matter of whether #4 shot will be devastating or not at close range, but more of a good, better or best concept.

    I love http://www.theboxotruth.com/and spend a lot of time on their forum too.

    The statement "bird shot is for little birds, is one of O_P's (Old Painless the owner of the site) famous one liners. He also states, with that statement, that he does not mean to say that bird shot cannot be devastating and could be called good, and then say #1 Buck may be better, with 00 Buck being best.

    I too keep 00 buck in my home defense shotgun.



    The truth is I don't want to be shot with any of them at any distance as they all could kill you.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska, USA
    Posts
    1,224

    Post imported post

    Sa45auto wrote:
    Flintlock wrote:
    Not sure how the argument of lack of shotgun penetration on metal objects got started but I never made that argument. I have indeedmade the argument that #4 shot would be devastating to a human target at close range.........

    You know I don't know how we got off on to that either. To me it is not a matter of whether #4 shot will be devastating or not at close range, but more of a good, better or best concept.

    I love http://www.theboxotruth.com/and spend a lot of time on their forum too.

    The statement "bird shot is for little birds, is one of O_P's (Old Painless the owner of the site) famous one liners. He also states, with that statement, that he does not mean to say that bird shot cannot be devastating and could be called good, and then say #1 Buck may be better, with 00 Buck being best.

    I too keep 00 buck in my home defense shotgun.



    The truth is I don't want to be shot with any of them at any distance as they all could kill you.
    I bet this shotgun wouldn't have any issues with penetration, whether through metal or not...

    http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunn...rlds-larg.html
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •