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Thread: Well, that essentially guts the bill. H. 3212 from GrassRoots South Carolina. Thanks NRA

  1. #1
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    From a private communication.
    Folks,

    H. 3212 was amended (thanks to Sen. Knotts) to only honor permits from states which have both training and background checks before issuing permits. The bill then received its 2nd reading in the Senate.

    Well, that essentially guts the bill.

    We need to make these politicians afraid (i.e., vote them out of office) to do these things to us.
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    This is how H. 3212 was amended to read:


    A BILL

    TO AMEND SECTION 23-31-215, AS AMENDED, CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH
    CAROLINA, 1976, RELATING TO THE ISSUANCE OF CONCEALABLE WEAPONS
    PERMITS, SO AS TO PROVIDE THAT VALID OUT-OF-STATE PERMITS TO CARRY
    CONCEALABLE WEAPONS HELD BY A RESIDENT OF ANOTHER STATE MUST BE
    HONORED BY THIS STATE AND TO DELETE THE PROVISION THAT THIS STATE WILL
    ONLY HONOR OUT-OF-STATE PERMITS ISSUED BY A STATE WITH WHICH SOUTH
    CAROLINA HAS RECIPROCITY.

    Amend Title To Conform

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of South Carolina:

    SECTION 1. Section 23-31-215(N) of the 1976 Code, as last
    amended by Act 347 of 2006, is further amended to read:

    "(N) Valid out-of-state permits to carry concealable weapons held
    by a resident of a reciprocal state must be honored by this State,
    provided, that the reciprocal state requires an applicant to
    successfully pass a state and federal criminal background check and a
    course in firearm training and safety. A resident of a reciprocal
    state carrying a concealable weapon in South Carolina is subject to
    and must abide by the laws of South Carolina regarding concealable
    weapons. SLED shall maintain and publish a list of those states as the
    states with which South Carolina has reciprocity."

    SECTION 2. This act takes effect upon approval by the Governor.

    Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety. Or against NRA gun-safety for profit training. That's what it's all about, folks.
    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    What states will the amended version eliminate vs. the original version? I think that GA would be one of them but I assume that either version will add FL and will allow VA residents full reciprocity which they do not have now.

    One of the clarifications that the amendment made was SLED's concern that the original verison would allow 18 year olds from some states to carry and also that it would provide OC for some fromcertainstates. I know that it was not the intent but the wording did leave some question about it.

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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    I thought that was effectively what the original law already said, and left it up to the rabidly anti gun SLED. Great.


    I wonder if I can get my deposit for our SC vacation back.



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    From my 'private source' on scfirearms@yahoogroups.com, an OPEN forum
    I would love to see the list of 16 additional states as an officially certified list from SLED that can not be changed once an error in calculation is found.

    My analysis of the amendment shows no net gain and a probable loss of reciprocity with states that we currently have reciprocity with.

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    Governor just signed the bill.

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    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3711

    We hear in Georgia can thank the NRA for us not having reciprocity . . .



    The NRA even thanks Sen. Knotts. Read it.

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    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Quoted from the link you provided:

    "This amendment was necessary in order to ensure the Senate passed this needed reform. Without this new language, this bill would not have passed out of the Senate. NRA supported the amended version of H 3212, and we appreciate the help of the Senators who worked directly with NRA to ensure we could pass the best possible language; especially State Senators Jim Ritchie (R-13) and Jake Knotts (R-23)."

    If this is correct, the amended version was necessary to get the bill to pass. It may not have been as far reaching as some would have wished, but it is still a step in the right direction. This is similar to the SCOTUS decision in Heller. It didn't go as far as we would have liked, but it definitley a step in the right direction.

    You don't have to like the NRA, or back them, but the continual bashing of them is old. If you don't like the NRA, simply provide an organization to replace them.

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    Quoted from the link you provided:

    "This amendment was necessary in order to ensure the Senate passed this needed reform. Without this new language, this bill would not have passed out of the Senate. NRA supported the amended version of H 3212, and we appreciate the help of the Senators who worked directly with NRA to ensure we could pass the best possible language; especially State Senators Jim Ritchie (R-13) and Jake Knotts (R-23)."

    If this is correct, the amended version was necessary to get the bill to pass. It may not have been as far reaching as some would have wished, but it is still a step in the right direction. This is similar to the SCOTUS decision in Heller. It didn't go as far as we would have liked, but it definitley a step in the right direction.

    You don't have to like the NRA, or back them, but the continual bashing of them is old. If you don't like the NRA, simply provide an organization to replace them.
    Already done in Virginia and in Georgia. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    So does this mean that we Virginians are good to go now in South Carolina or is it still a pending issue at this time?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    So does this mean that we Virginians are good to go now in South Carolina or is it still a pending issue at this time?
    IANAL but my understanding is that a Virginia CHP is not valid in SC until SLED says so and puts VA on their reciprocity list. I am sending a letter to the director of SLED. Look in the VA forum. I am not sure how to link a thread into a post or I would do it.

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    Your CWP permit *IS* good in Kentucky.

    But that isn't because SC has a reciprocity agreement signed with KY.

    It is because KENTUCKY honors SC permits even though we don't yet honor theirs!

    I think you may be confusing "Reciprocity" with "Recognition."

    "Recognition" is a one-way street. Its where state A honors state B, but the reverse is not true. That is the current situation with KY & VA. They honor SC permits, but SC doesn't (yet) honor theirs.

    "Reciprocity" is a two-way street. Its where state A and state B have signed a document agreeing to honor each other's permits. SC currently has such signed agreements with 12 states.

    SC residents (you & me) are still good to carry in KY or VA. But residents from KY & VA are not good to carry here in our state.

    States like KY have their laws written in such a way that they will respect other states who meet certain criteria, even if the other state doesn't honor theirs. SC law isn't like that. Our state does not honor any other states unless there is a signed agreement between the two states. SLED gets to 'interpret' which states meet our criteria and which ones don't.

    That's why it was so important to keep H. 3212 from being amended. In its original form, it would have changed SC law so that we will just plain honor EVERY state's permits. SC would have become a 'Recognition' state.

    Sen. Knotts and SLED fought tooth & nail to prevent that. Knotts amended the bill to keep SC a 'Reciprocity' state.

    Thanks to Knotts, SLED is still in control of interpreting which states we will sign agreements with and which we will not.
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