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Thread: And our Governor Says Only LE Can Be Trusted Around Alcohol

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    No Cop Bashing Please
    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...WS02/803140350

    The former special agent in charge of the FBI's Toledo office will spend six years in a Virginia prison for abducting his girlfriend last year.

    The victim said he put the gun to her head and threatened to shoot. And he told her he could cut her veins and know exactly how long it would take for her to bleed to death because of his law enforcement training.

    Spicocchi has a history of alcohol abuse and was highly intoxicated at the time of the incident and was off his medication, Mr. Abbenante said.

    But he could carry concealed in a Va bar!:shock:

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Commonwealth Attorneys (ruling class) - no training, no permit, can drink alcohol while carrying concealed - it's ok says Gov. Kaine.

    Common citizen - cannot carry concealed even with permit where alcohol is served though he/she has received training and had a backgound investigation and can't imbibe.


    OK Mr. Kaine, I'll just OC. Glad you let me know where you stand too, 'cause I am a voter!!!!!!!!! And I won't forget!!!!!!!!!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Spicocchi has a history of alcohol abuse and was highly intoxicated at the time of the incident and was off his medication, Mr. Abbenante said.
    The kind of medication that would be indicitive of a mental condition that people now want to preclude civilians from buying or owning a firearm? The context sounds like that is the case.

    So from what we know, it seems that Agent Spicocchi, who was promoted to supervisor, had several personal conditions present that would prevent a citizen from even owning a firearm, let alone get a concealed carry permit and there would be no way to have 50 state carry regardless. Yeah, that sounds about right for our government. Now let the antis tell us again how the gov't is going to protect us if we are disarmed ....
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    In "their America", only the elite class are allowed to act as citizens and carry firearms without permission...those who serve the state!

    Soon, only landowners will be able to vote, and then only those20 acres or more!

    They have failed to learn the lessons of history....

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    kaine needs a brain

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ggd276 wrote:
    kaine needs a brain
    Kaine ain't Able!
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    if we dont stay on to him about this he will let it drop

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    BobCav wrote:
    In "their America", only the elite class are allowed to act as citizens and carry firearms without permission...those who serve the state!

    Soon, only landowners will be able to vote, and then only those20 acres or more!

    They have failed to learn the lessons of history....
    "Either we are equal or we are not." THAT is <whiney voice>cop bashing</whiney voice> uncomplained only for their blithe ignorance!

    Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

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    Nah, not cop bashing at all.ELITIST bashing, yes. Anyone in a position of authority thatthinks they're better than the rest of us, yes. That includes anyone that can carry anywhere concealed into a bar with NO LICENSE whatsoever.

    Actually, this could (and should) work to our favor! Kahn, er I mean Kaine has freely given unto those that serve his lordship and the state, that which RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TO ALL VIRGINIANS, NAY ALL AMERICANS!

    In doing so, he has revealed himself for what he is. A tyrant. And all tyrants must be hastily deposed, by pen or by open rebellion. THAT is the birthright of every American.

    There's two ways that usurped rightsrights can be legally and rightfully restored. The first is with the First. The second is with the Second. What an awesome design! My respect to the founders! God Bless America.





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    sorry....what we need now is an icon of DA Gubbner with an organ grinder....insert creepy music of ones choice and then dance like themonkeys he must think we are. sigh......... i do however enjoy educating the citizens that come into the shop i work for about how much Gubbner K cares about them....shame they vote too.....know how its goes...do good tell 1...do bad tell 10...

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    So the gov. doesn't trust the people, eh ? Sounds just like some of our politicians and police chiefs here in TN in our attempt to get restaurant carry.

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    A simple and easy test for trust; does your 'official' trust his electorate/constituency armed in his presence?

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    I'm no fan of the little leprechaun Governor we have here in Va, but let's not forget that

    • state Senator Robert Hurt (District 19) was the sponsor of this bill.
    • ALL state Senators voted Y on this bill.
    • The Militia, Police and Public safety committee voted 18Y - 1N on this bill.
    • The house voted 64Y -31N - 2A

    So they're all a bunch of elitists and need to be called on it.



    source: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB776



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    doug23838 wrote:
    I'm no fan of the little leprechaun Governor we have here in Va, but let's not forget that
    • state Senator Robert Hurt (District 19) was the sponsor of this bill.
    • ALL state Senators voted Y on this bill.
    • The Militia, Police and Public safety committee voted 18Y - 1N on this bill.
    • The house voted 64Y -31N - 2A
    So they're all a bunch of elitists and need to be called on it.

    source: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB776
    +1 Agreed. Though they (the legislature) did approve the Restaurant Bill; therefor, it was Mr. Kaine's veto that produced the ultimate gross insult.

    I wonder what the rank and file LEO thinks of this new selective law.

    Commonwealth Attorneys should be afforded no more priviledges than the people - they are obviously "more equal."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    I'm no fan of the little leprechaun Governor we have here in Va, but let's not forget that
    • state Senator Robert Hurt (District 19) was the sponsor of this bill.
    • ALL state Senators voted Y on this bill.
    • The Militia, Police and Public safety committee voted 18Y - 1N on this bill.
    • The house voted 64Y -31N - 2A
    So they're all a bunch of elitists and need to be called on it.

    source: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?081+sum+SB776
    +1 Agreed. Though they (the legislature) did approve the Restaurant Bill; therefor, it was Mr. Kaine's veto that produced the ultimate gross insult.

    I wonder what the rank and file LEO thinks of this new selective law.

    Commonwealth Attorneys should be afforded no more priviledges than the people - they are obviously "more equal."

    Yata hey
    Concealed weapons; attorney for the Commonwealth may carry without a permit. Authorizes an attorney for the Commonwealth or an assistant attorney for the Commonwealth to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a permit wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth. Current law only authorizes an attorney for the Commonwealth to carry a concealed handgun without a permit while in the discharge of his official duties or while in transit to and from such duties.

    [line]

    I have no problem with this. The CAs put people in jail and ask for punishment. This is sometimes worse than the actual cop being the accusedto court in the first place. The first thing some bad guys want to do is go punish those that punished them.

    Just like the police are authorised to carry at all times... so should the CAs considering their backgrounds are checked and they are eligible to do the job I believe they can be trusted.

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    peter nap wrote:
    snipped.......

    But he could carry concealed in a Va bar!:shock:
    At one time he could.. He cannot carry at all anymore.. anywhere!

    And considering he was drunk and not on his medication... I have known thousands of "citizens" in his condition. I have yet to meet a cop in this condition.

    But it is not that cops are elite or anything. I suspect it is thatcops have been checked out and trusted as they need to be based on the authority that the state has given them.

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    But it is not that cops are elite or anything.
    :what:NO...now who could even THINK such a thing !

    Gimme a break sport. Your concurrence with our elitists class creating legislature furthers the notion that we citizen underlings are less worthy than the "ruling class".

    True enough CA's and prosecuting attorneys have been sought out by criminals attempting to avenge their punishment. And, as a CA, they are a "law enforcement officer".

    You're good with the CA, untrained in fireams, packing wherever he wants to go? No "the bullet comes out this end" training? By virtue of his JOB, he is better than the rest of us 24x7? When he quits being a CA, he can't do it anymore. Illogical.

    Ah... I may have hit on next year's amendment to this.... retired CAs...



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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    So, with this line of thinking anyone that is a witness for the prosecution or on a juryshould be afforded the same benefits.
    After a background check of course.

    This would help stopwitness intimidation and jurytampering.

    [line]


    This is why I wouldnot vote( if on a jury)to convict someone of carrying illegally with some exceptions of course.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    doug23838 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    But it is not that cops are elite or anything.
    :what:NO...now who could even THINK such a thing !

    Gimme a break sport. Your concurrence with our elitists class creating legislature furthers the notion that we citizen underlings are less worthy than the "ruling class".

    True enough CA's and prosecuting attorneys have been sought out by criminals attempting to avenge their punishment. And, as a CA, they are a "law enforcement officer".

    You're good with the CA, untrained in fireams, packing wherever he wants to go? No "the bullet comes out this end" training? By virtue of his JOB, he is better than the rest of us 24x7? When he quits being a CA, he can't do it anymore. Illogical.

    Ah... I may have hit on next year's amendment to this.... retired CAs...
    Sorry Sport!

    You are the one turning a job into a class of people.

    As it stands now... EVERYONE in Virginia car carry a gun no matter what their training. So how will this be any different except they CA can cover it up? They could just open carry!! Since they work at the CA office... and in the courthouse... the permit process is kinda pointless since they would qualify. To get a permit they would need to show proficiency. Big deal!!! Do you not think they would have easy access to any police range to get used to shooting it?

    And once again... YOU are thinking the CA is better than you because the CAwould getto carry without a permit. So I guess because cops can park anywhere they are better than you to.

    Get over yourself, sport.


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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:

    Do you not think they would have easy access to any police range to get used to shooting it?

    And once again... YOU are thinking the CA is better than you because the CAwould getto carry without a permit. So I guess because cops can park anywhere they are better than you to.

    Get over yourself, sport.
    Because of their JOB they get to use the police range? What a benefit not extended to use underlings.

    And, you've never seen a cop car parked in a "No Parking" zone outside the dry cleaners while Officer Big Head is picking up his uniforms? ????

    We disagree. Attorneys (barely a life form) are not better than the population and should play be the same rules as the rest of us.

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    I disagree with the idea of letting Commonwealth Attorneys or their deputies carry concealed without a permit.

    Its too easy for them to get a permit. Just attend the proficiency/safety classes and get the permit.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Or do away with them...



    Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety. Who decides proficiency but a willing tyrant-wannabe?

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******


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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety.
    Rights are safety.

    The tyrant's tool is toomitto distinuish betweenshort-term safety and long-term safety in his offer. Orrather to focus on theshort-term danger.

    Just keep reminding people what most of us learned in high school: rights are safety.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    peter nap wrote: And considering he was drunk and not on his medication... I have known thousands of "citizens" in his condition. I have yet to meet a cop in this condition.

    Oh come on 229

    Police Officer Charged With Virginia DUI Officer accused of drunk driving in Virginia when he crashed police cruiser on interstate.
    Andrew Page, an officer with the Roanoke Police Department, was charged with driving under the influence in Virginia after crashing a fully marked police cruiser. Page was driving north on Interstate 81 in Pulsaki County around 10:15 pm when he ran off the highway and hit a guardrail.
    Virginia State Police received a call to 911 about six minutes before the accident reporting a motorist driving erratically.
    SOUTH BEND -- Massachusetts police therapist Hal Brown often hears the same story as he counsels officers and their wives.[/b] Rather than coming straight home after a hard shift, the officer is frequently stopping at the bar, hoping to take the edge off his rough day before returning home.
    Communication is shutting down between husband and wife as the saloon stops become more and more common.
    But a significant difference exists between downing a couple of beers after work and crossing over to excessive drinking.
    After 25 years of counseling police officers, Brown says he has seen too many who cross that line."Police that abuse alcohol is just as bad (as in the past)," he said. "So many police officers I know drink excessively."
    Although there is no official number on how many officers are affected by alcoholism nationally, data clearly show the addiction can lead to other serious problems, according to executive director Robert Douglas with the National Police Suicide Foundation.
    In the 450 documented police suicides nationwide in 2004, 95 percent were alcohol-related, Douglas said. Drinking is also commonly linked with police domestic violence issues and homicide/suicides, he said.
    The issue of police and excessive drinking has drawn recent attention locally after three South Bend Police officers were cited on alcohol-related charges in two months.
    The most recent occurred Monday night, when off-duty officer Cpl. Joseph A. Muszer was found by police outside his squad car near the intersection of Miami Street and Ireland Road. He was detained on suspicion of driving under the influence.Responding officers smelled alcohol on Muszer's breath and administered a field sobriety test, which he failed, according to a court affidavit.
    He was then taken to the St. Joseph County Jail where a test showed his blood-alcohol level was 0.17 percent, more than twice the legal limit of 0.08 percent.
    Muszer's citation follows the cases of detective bureau chief Eugene Kyle and detective Ron Nowicki, who were accused of operating vehicles while intoxicated in December.


    I can post drunk cop news all day. As you often point out, cops are human too!

    As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
    I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.





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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
    I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.



    If his alcoholism was so obvious to others, he couldn't have honestly denied on a CCW application that he was a substance abuser. At this point, however, the Gov. will give people like him a free pass to carry in their favorite gin mills. Real nice.

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