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And our Governor Says Only LE Can Be Trusted Around Alcohol

Citizen

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I disagree with the idea of letting Commonwealth Attorneys or their deputies carry concealed without a permit.

Its too easy for them to get a permit. Just attend the proficiency/safety classes and get the permit.
 

Citizen

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Doug Huffman wrote:
Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety.
Rights are safety.

The tyrant's tool is toomitto distinuish betweenshort-term safety and long-term safety in his offer. Orrather to focus on theshort-term danger.

Just keep reminding people what most of us learned in high school: rights are safety.
 

peter nap

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LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
And considering he was drunk and not on his medication... I have known thousands of "citizens" in his condition. I have yet to meet a cop in this condition.


Oh come on 229

Police Officer Charged With Virginia DUI Officer accused of drunk driving in Virginia when he crashed police cruiser on interstate.
Andrew Page, an officer with the Roanoke Police Department, was charged with driving under the influence in Virginia after crashing a fully marked police cruiser. Page was driving north on Interstate 81 in Pulsaki County around 10:15 pm when he ran off the highway and hit a guardrail.
Virginia State Police received a call to 911 about six minutes before the accident reporting a motorist driving erratically.
[align=left] SOUTH BEND -- Massachusetts police therapist Hal Brown often hears the same story as he counsels officers and their wives.[/b] Rather than coming straight home after a hard shift, the officer is frequently stopping at the bar, hoping to take the edge off his rough day before returning home.[/align] Communication is shutting down between husband and wife as the saloon stops become more and more common.
But a significant difference exists between downing a couple of beers after work and crossing over to excessive drinking.
After 25 years of counseling police officers, Brown says he has seen too many who cross that line."Police that abuse alcohol is just as bad (as in the past)," he said. "So many police officers I know drink excessively."
Although there is no official number on how many officers are affected by alcoholism nationally, data clearly show the addiction can lead to other serious problems, according to executive director Robert Douglas with the National Police Suicide Foundation.
In the 450 documented police suicides nationwide in 2004, 95 percent were alcohol-related, Douglas said. Drinking is also commonly linked with police domestic violence issues and homicide/suicides, he said.
The issue of police and excessive drinking has drawn recent attention locally after three South Bend Police officers were cited on alcohol-related charges in two months.
The most recent occurred Monday night, when off-duty officer Cpl. Joseph A. Muszer was found by police outside his squad car near the intersection of Miami Street and Ireland Road. He was detained on suspicion of driving under the influence.Responding officers smelled alcohol on Muszer's breath and administered a field sobriety test, which he failed, according to a court affidavit.
He was then taken to the St. Joseph County Jail where a test showed his blood-alcohol level was 0.17 percent, more than twice the legal limit of 0.08 percent.
Muszer's citation follows the cases of detective bureau chief Eugene Kyle and detective Ron Nowicki, who were accused of operating vehicles while intoxicated in December.


I can post drunk cop news all day. As you often point out, cops are human too!

As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.
 

Dutch Uncle

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As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.
If his alcoholism was so obvious to others, he couldn't have honestly denied on a CCW application that he was a substance abuser. At this point, however, the Gov. will give people like him a free pass to carry in their favorite gin mills. Real nice. :cuss:
 

Citizen

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peter nap quoted:
SNIP In the 450 documented police suicides nationwide in 2004, 95 percent were alcohol-related, Douglas said.
Holy smoke!! 450 suicides. Lets compare that to how many were killed in the line of duty:

Nearly all of the officers killed — 55 in 2005, down from 57 in 2004 — worked for city police departments, according to the FBI's annual report. http://tinyurl.com/2yysa5

So he's telling me I have a decent chance of having a suicidal cop approaching my car door at a traffic stop!?!

Cop: "May I see your license and registration, please?"

Citizen:(terrified) "Whenwas your last psychological test?"
 

LEO 229

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doug23838 wrote:
Because of their JOB they get to use the police range? What a benefit not extended to use underlings.

And, you've never seen a cop car parked in a "No Parking" zone outside the dry cleaners while Officer Big Head is picking up his uniforms? ????

We disagree. Attorneys (barely a life form) are not better than the population and should play be the same rules as the rest of us.
I have seen cops AND citizens BOTH parked in the fire lane.I do not park in the fire lane unless it is business related. I do not normally write parking tickets to those that do if they come out and move.

Yes... The CA could ask for a little police range time. They are not automatically granted use but since we all work together and are all on the same team.... the staff will accommodate them.

They are also employees of the same city or county so it is not like they are some Joe Blow from off the street. The range cannot accommodate the entire population. Even cops do not get to go shoot on their days off.

I am confident that the (Barley a life form) attorney has a much higher social standing then the average citizen. It is hard work to attend all that schooling and to have to perform in public under pressure in front of so many people. Are they better based on a job? No. But they will be viewed differently.

Well I think criminals should play by the same rules as the rest of us too. They should stop when told to do so and not shoot at cops. But I guess that is not going to happen huh.. sport?
 

LEO 229

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peter nap wrote:
.....snipped
I can post drunk cop news all day. As you often point out, cops are human too!

As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.
So making a CA show proficiency will somehow stop them from drinking?
 

LEO 229

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Citizen wrote:
peter nap quoted:
SNIP In the 450 documented police suicides nationwide in 2004, 95 percent were alcohol-related, Douglas said.
Holy smoke!! 450 suicides. Lets compare that to how many were killed in the line of duty:

Nearly all of the officers killed — 55 in 2005, down from 57 in 2004 — worked for city police departments, according to the FBI's annual report. http://tinyurl.com/2yysa5

So he's telling me I have a decent chance of having a suicidal cop approaching my car door at a traffic stop!?!

Cop: "May I see your license and registration, please?"

Citizen: (terrified) "Whenwas your last psychological test?"
I have met far more suicidal citizens than cops.

900,000+ cops in the US and 450 suicides a year?

The chance you would have one at your door will be 1 in 2000 cops.

And then..... it is rare that they do it on duty and to my knowledge.. never on a call. You should be safe.

But if you get stopped 2000 times and asked for your license.... you really should worry. Maybe about your driving. I do not suspect you will EVER have 2000 policecontacts over your lifetime. ;)
 

peter nap

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LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
.....snipped
I can post drunk cop news all day. As you often point out, cops are human too!

As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.
So making a CA show proficiency will somehow stop them from drinking?

I'm just responding to YOUR post saying YOU had never met a cop who was a DRUNK. You obviously run in better circles than the rest of us.

The Ca's were just thrown in for good measure since CA's are generally three notches below practicing attorney's. (the ones I've known, including friends, can't make a living as a lawyer)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not lawyer bashing.....I have 7 lawyers in the family, including my father and brother and an Appeals Court Judge.

None.. CA's though!
 

peter nap

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LEO 229 wrote:
Citizen wrote:
peter nap quoted:
SNIP In the 450 documented police suicides nationwide in 2004, 95 percent were alcohol-related, Douglas said.
Holy smoke!! 450 suicides. Lets compare that to how many were killed in the line of duty:

Nearly all of the officers killed — 55 in 2005, down from 57 in 2004 — worked for city police departments, according to the FBI's annual report. http://tinyurl.com/2yysa5

So he's telling me I have a decent chance of having a suicidal cop approaching my car door at a traffic stop!?!

Cop: "May I see your license and registration, please?"

Citizen: (terrified) "Whenwas your last psychological test?"
I have met far more suicidal citizens than cops.

900,000+ cops in the US and 450 suicides a year?

The chance you would have one at your door will be 1 in 2000 cops.

And then..... it is rare that they do it on duty and to my knowledge.. never on a call. You should be safe.

But if you get stopped 2000 times and asked for your license.... you really should worry. Maybe about your driving. I do not suspect you will EVER have 2000 policecontacts over your lifetime. ;)

That's a good point 229....or is it. Lets see, you have met more suicidal citizens than cops. HOW CAN THAT BE?:shock:

Of course...that's it. There are 900,000+ cops but there are
301,139,947 + Citizens.That puts it in a little better perspective, doesn't it.


You may be right about CA's being good people though. Maybe they should be able to carry concealed while drinking. Maybe they are more stable than us mere mortals.
HMMMMMMM...How about Joe Morrissey, now that's a fine example of our legal system. If he was unhappy with the conduct of a defense lawyer, he'd just knock the hell out of him. His motto.....I lost the case but won the fight:shock:

Now that's someone I'd like to have around while taking my family to dinner. He did get into a little trouble though. Had to become a Delegate!:X
 

LEO 229

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peter nap wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
.....snipped
I can post drunk cop news all day. As you often point out, cops are human too!

As far as drtunk CA's....Look no further than Eddie Vaughn who was the CA in Hanover for untold years. Deputies drove him home weekly, from his favorite watering hole in Ashland, because he was too drunk.
I have seen him numerous times in court, so hungover from the night before, he could hardly speak.
So making a CA show proficiency will somehow stop them from drinking?
I'm just responding to YOUR post saying YOU had never met a cop who was a DRUNK. You obviously run in better circles than the rest of us.

The Ca's were just thrown in for good measure since CA's are generally three notches below practicing attorney's. (the ones I've known, including friends, can't make a living as a lawyer)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not lawyer bashing.....I have 7 lawyers in the family, including my father and brother and an Appeals Court Judge.

None.. CA's though!
Now you are making one job better than another.

A job is a job is a job.... One may make more money than the other. Or is may be prestigious and highly sought after.

A job is nothing but a way to pay your bills and should be something that keep you interested in going back each day.

Is a cop better than a doctor? Is a doctor better than a lawyer? Is a lawyer better than a cop?

It all depends on specific questions and what you want to do.

Do you like being inside or outside? Do you like working alone or in a group setting? Do you want to rely on others to help you do you job or do you want to do it all yourself. Do you like top stay busy all day with what you like to do or go to meetings all the time.

Lawyers know the legal procedures and case law much better than a doctor or even a cop.But a cop knows how to handle deadly situations on the street and a doctor knows how to set a broken bones. Not many lawyers can do either.

Now when it comes to pay.... Cops start off around $13.00 an hour where lawyers make probably $60.00 and Doctors.. I have no clue but guess it is more.

But you can make far more as a prostitute on Craig's list... So Money is not really the driving factor here, right. :D

Some people take what they can get. Others plan and select the job they want. I am not going to knock anyone for the job they want to work as long as they enjoy it.
 

doug23838

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LEO 229 wrote:
Well I think criminals should play by the same rules as the rest of us too. They should stop when told to do so and not shoot at cops. But I guess that is not going to happen huh.. sport?
If they did....you'd be out of work. And you know what? (No offense intended), but that would be a good thing.
 

LEO 229

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peter nap wrote:
That's a good point 229....or is it. Lets see, you have met more suicidal citizens than cops. HOW CAN THAT BE?:shock:

Of course...that's it. There are 900,000+ cops but there are
301,139,947 + Citizens.That puts it in a little better perspective, doesn't it.


You may be right about CA's being good people though. Maybe they should be able to carry concealed while drinking. Maybe they are more stable than us mere mortals.
HMMMMMMM...How about Joe Morrissey, now that's a fine example of our legal system. If he was unhappy with the conduct of a defense lawyer, he'd just knock the hell out of him. His motto.....I lost the case but won the fight:shock:

Now that's someone I'd like to have around while taking my family to dinner. He did get into a little trouble though. Had to become a Delegate!:X
The ratio of suicidal cops has always been higher. Cops see so much bad stuff every day and then to have people treating them like the enemy.... it is sad. :cry:

I can say that I have never met a cop that threatened or had taken his own life. I have met hundreds of citizens that have. Strange, huh?? So the ratio may be higher for cops...... butit does not mean you are more likely to run into one. You have a better chance of having your neighbor come over to your house that is suicidal over his house foreclosure.

Are you telling me that citizens that have CC permits do not drink either?

What you fail to understand is that members of the criminal justice system are held to a much higher standard.The average citizenis NOT going tobe punished at his plumbing job for being drunk out in public while off the clock.

So the plumber has nothing to lose except a having to pay a fine. So he can go out and take his chances and have no fear of losing his job.

But those who are a part of the criminal justice system do have to worry and are going to be more likely to act accordingly. Are there some that do go get drunk? Sure!! Just like there are citizens that do it. But there are far less since they know ahead of time they have a great deal to lose.
 

peter nap

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LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote:
.....snipped
Now you are making one job better than another.

Well......yeah, It's called The Real World !
Need I remind you that YOU feek CA's are better than others, even practicing Attorneys, whom I might point out, can't carry concealed in a Restaurant.

So using your logic, we are all equal...but LE and Ca's who are a little more responsible.
 

LEO 229

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doug23838 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Well I think criminals should play by the same rules as the rest of us too. They should stop when told to do so and not shoot at cops. But I guess that is not going to happen huh.. sport?
If they did....you'd be out of work. And you know what? (No offense intended), but that would be a good thing.
Ya... it is called job security.

We all know that cops will be employed for a long time. The people will NEVER let us lose our jobs.

Every time the government tries to implement something that does not require a cop it is met with a brick wall!! Red light cameras, Speed cameras, Video surveillance....

They want a real cop to be there. :D
 

LEO 229

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peter nap wrote:
Well......yeah, It's called The Real World !
Well, I think MY job is the best job out there. So how do we decide what job is better than another? It is personal preference so we will never agree to what job is better.

"The Real World" is actually a TV show.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103520/
 

peter nap

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LEO 229 wrote:
peter nap wrote: The ratio of suicidal cops has always been higher. Cops see so much bad stuff every day and then to have people treating them like the enemy.... it is sad. :cry:

It's a jungle out there:banghead: but not relevant

I can say that I have never met a cop that threatened or had taken his own life.
Neither have I but I net one that wanted to arm wrestle once. That's close:)

You have a better chance of having your neighbor come over to your house that is suicidal over his house foreclosure.
I can only hope!

Are you telling me that citizens that have CC permits do not drink either?
The difference is that it is illegal for them but not so for CA's or LEO's.

What you fail to understand is that members of the criminal justice system are held to a much higher standard.
They are also much better versed about how to evade the system.

The average citizenis NOT going tobe punished at his plumbing job for being drunk out in public while off the clock.
You obviously don't know anything about the insurance and bonding companies that cover tradespeople.

So the plumber has nothing to lose except a having to pay a fine. So he can go out and take his chances and have no fear of losing his job.
And his surety bond for his job that pays more than 13.00 hr and I might add, took a lot longer to learn and certify in than a few weeks at the academy.
No insult to Law Enforcement but Trades people are not drunken animals. While I'm sure law enforcement preforms a service to some people, I wouldn't call one to fix the burst water heater dumping on my new floors.
 

LEO 229

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peter nap wrote:

The difference is that it is illegal for them but not so for CA's or LEO's.

They are also much better versed about how to evade the system.

You obviously don't know anything about the insurance and bonding companies that cover tradespeople.

And his surety bond for his job that pays more than 13.00 hr and I might add, took a lot longer to learn and certify in than a few weeks at the academy.
No insult to Law Enforcement but Trades people are not drunken animals. While I'm sure law enforcement preforms a service to some people, I wouldn't call one to fix the burst water heater dumping on my new floors.

I have never arresteda CAfor breaking ANY laws.... be it.. traffic or criminal. So it appears that the chances a CA if going to visit a bar and be a law breaker is extremely slim. Not that it could not happen since humans are not perfect or always law abiding.

But since the CA has been checked out and is trusted to prosecute criminal cases we should believe they are law abiding and responsible people. They cannot be breaking laws if they are supposed to be prosecuting them too.

If you want refuse this is possible.... how about we not believe gun owners will be responsible either?Keeping in mind that currently... ANYONE can OC and never be checked out!! Shouldweprevent them from open carry in Virginia???

My example of the plumber wasa random examplein regards to someonebeing able to do ANYTHING they wanted while off the clock and their actions would have little or no impact on their employment. A boss cannot write them up for being unprofessional or buying beer while in uniform.
 
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