Concealed-Carry at GRCC

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I attend Green River Community College. This is all I could find about firearms in their literature - "WAC 132J-125-150 Firearms/Explosives
Any student who, while in any college facility or participating in a college-related program, uses or has on his/her person firearms or explosive materials, without written permission of the Executive Dean of Student Services or executive vice president’s designee, shall be subject to discipline."

So, I guess I'll be writing a letter to one of those guys. What do you suggest I include? Should it just be "Can I conceal-carry a handgun on campus?" or what? I don't know about mentioning Virginia-Tech and stuff like that...

What do you think?

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I just read through the GRCC Student Code of Conduct online and it doesn't have the exception like the UW does for "constitutional rights"... That means you're pretty much hosed.

Sending that letter will get you a LOT more attention than you want. Your best bet, honestly, is to conceal and keep it concealed and hope you're not caught. Just remember that what you're doing isn't illegal, but it is something that could get you kicked out of school. Is it right?... Certainly not, but until we get HB6860 passed, you're just going to have to either risk expulsion/disciplinary action or not carry on campus.:?

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Damnit!

I'm not risking being kicked out of school.

You're absolutely right about attracting unwanted attention. But I still think that something ought to be said. Anonymous e-mail address?

Under what circumstances would this Dean give permission for something to carry an explosive or firearm?

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Hide the dang thing if you are inclined. With a bit of extra care and a quiet mouth, nobody will know you have it until it has to come out to stop some sort of horrible event...

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maybe you should start by joining Students for concealed carry on campus (sccc) at concealedcampus.org, and then become the a student leader for your school. Create flyers for the upcoming national empty holster protest in april and distribute them on campus. Organize! I can get you a great deal on printing. Become an activist in your community and seek help from others with the same goal. That's a good way to gather attention from the brass at your school. Remember, although you want to carry at school, so do others, and that's nationwide. Its an issue for all of us, not just students, but their family members as well. Now that I am thinking about it, I am done with the Wa gun rights pamplet. Maybe I will have some time to create a flyer for the above mentioned national protest. I could include a mention of HB6860, and such. Statistics gathered from the sccc website, etc.

Or we could all go in on a printing run of the press release on their website an use that as a handout. Just some thoughts, what do you all think?

But if I was you, I would risk getting kicked out of school, and just carry concealed. If the shit ever hit the fan, I would rather find another school than end up dead because my gun was at home

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I'd say write a letter to both asking what needs to be done to obtain permission.

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So I think the question beggs to be asked. (Well, okay, maybe not begged, but you know) What will happen if (or should I say when)HB6860 is passed and you've been kicked out of school for carrying? Will the law reverse all of the "rulings" for those removed from the campus?

Also, what is this "constitutional rights" thing at UW that you speak of? Just trying to be as edumicated as possible.

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ATCer wrote:

So I think the question beggs to be asked. (Well, okay, maybe not begged, but you know) What will happen if (or should I say when)HB6860 is passed and you've been kicked out of school for carrying? Will the law reverse all of the "rulings" for those removed from the campus?

Also, what is this "constitutional rights" thing at UW that you speak of? Just trying to be as edumicated as possible.

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I'm guessing the whole, it was against the rules then... so the rules were broken thing would apply.

one might have a chance if they were to take the school to court... but i'm doubting it would be automatic

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ATCer wrote:

So I think the question beggs to be asked. (Well, okay, maybe not begged, but you know) What will happen if (or should I say when)HB6860 is passed and you've been kicked out of school for carrying? Will the law reverse all of the "rulings" for those removed from the campus?

Also, what is this "constitutional rights" thing at UW that you speak of? Just trying to be as edumicated as possible.

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It has to do with the University of Washington Student Code of Conduct.

WAC 478-120-020 Standards of Conduct Section (3)(f) states:

Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the University campus, except for authorized University purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the Vice President for Student Affairs, or any other person designated by the President of the University (see WAC 478-124-020 (2)(e)) (legal defense sprays are not covered by this section);

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And Section (6) of the same WAC states:

(6) Nothing herein shall be construed to deny students their legally and/or constitutionally protected rights.

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The Washington State Constitution, Article 1, Section 24 states:

RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

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I'm not a lawyer or legal professional, but it seems pretty clear to me that Section (6) states that their barring of possession of firearms is made to be unenforceable via the state constitution.... But maybe that's just me.

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ATCer wrote:

Also, what is this 'constitutional rights' thing at UW that you speak of? Just trying to be as edumicated as possible.

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UW's student regulations include a provision stating that: "Nothing herein shall be construed to deny students their legally and/or constitutionally protected rights." Since the right to bear arms in self-defense is explicitly enumerated in the state constitution (Article I, Section 24), this would seem to mean that UW's campus gun ban is unenforceable.

However, UW seems to be unique in containing such a provision. The Evergreen State College's Social Contract, for instance, blathers on about "basic rights of individuals" but studiously avoids reference to the rights codified in the state and federal constitutions.

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Euromutt wrote:

The Evergreen State College's Social Contract, for instance, blathers on about "basic rights of individuals" but studiously avoids reference to the rights codified in the state and federal constitutions.

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I've got some amusing emails from TESC's admissions staff assuring me that a student enjoys the same rights at TESC as they would in the broader community and the state. Then I clarified what I was digging at and got a quick "oh but our social contract thingy does ban THAT" Typical. I checked a few other colleges and they all find a way one way or another to ban carry on campus. I wonder how all this would stand up in a lawsuit???

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Euromutt wrote:

The Evergreen State College's Social Contract, for instance, blathers on about "basic rights of individuals" but studiously avoids reference to the rights codified in the state and federal constitutions.

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I've got some amusing emails from TESC's admissions staff assuring me that a student enjoys the same rights at TESC as they would in the broader community and the state. Then I clarified what I was digging at and got a quick "oh but our social contract thingy does ban THAT" Typical. I checked a few other colleges and they all find a way one way or another to ban carry on campus. I wonder how all this would stand up in a lawsuit???

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if you recall from the various bills in the senate and the hearings... they are quite affraid of this happening.

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Indeed they are afraid of that very thing. It's okay to destroy police cruisers and tell students not to cooperate with law enforcement during the investigation, but not to lawfully carry a weapon...

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just_a_car wrote:

ATCer wrote:

So I think the question beggs to be asked. (Well, okay, maybe not begged, but you know) What will happen if (or should I say when)HB6860 is passed and you've been kicked out of school for carrying? Will the law reverse all of the "rulings" for those removed from the campus?

Also, what is this "constitutional rights" thing at UW that you speak of? Just trying to be as edumicated as possible.

Click to expand...

It has to do with the University of Washington Student Code of Conduct.

WAC 478-120-020 Standards of Conduct Section (3)(f) states:

Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the University campus, except for authorized University purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the Vice President for Student Affairs, or any other person designated by the President of the University (see WAC 478-124-020 (2)(e)) (legal defense sprays are not covered by this section);

Click to expand...

And Section (6) of the same WAC states:

(6) Nothing herein shall be construed to deny students their legally and/or constitutionally protected rights.

Click to expand...

The Washington State Constitution, Article 1, Section 24 states:

RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Click to expand...

I'm not a lawyer or legal professional, but it seems pretty clear to me that Section (6) states that their barring of possession of firearms is made to be unenforceable via the state constitution.... But maybe that's just me.

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This is fantastic news. I'm totally going carry at CCC now

EDIT: Or possibly not, their student code of conduct doesn't hold the constituional note either. Atleast not that i can see.

http://www.cascadia.ctc.edu/StudentHandbook/studentcodeofconduct.asp#studentcodeofconduct

(18) Possession of firearms, licensed or unlicensed, (except where possessed by commissioned police officers as prescribed by law) explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on campus, except for authorized purposes.

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Yeah, Nebulis01... you're in the same boat as the original poster. You need to contact your state representatives in the State House and Senate and tell them to support HB6860.

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Indeed they are afraid of that very thing. It's okay to destroy police cruisers and tell students not to cooperate with law enforcement during the investigation, but not to lawfully carry a weapon...

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God forbid!

Also, Thanks for the info on UW. I'll tell you, you learn something new everyday!

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(18) Possession of firearms, licensed or unlicensed, (except where possessed by commissioned police officers as prescribed by law) explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on campus, except for authorized purposes.

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Have your lawyer tell them that this is your "authorization".

RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Click to expand...

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Your lawyer might be the means to asking the question about concealed carry without the extra attention you don't want:

Have your lawyer draft a letter stating that he has a client who wishes to carry a concealed pistol on campus as permitted by the state constitution and the license issued by the State. The letter should include a statement that the client has not carried in violation of published rules, but given recent episodes of campus violence that the client wishes to exercise their right to self-defense as guaranteed by section 24. Make sure the letter also states that the reason the letter is being channeled through the lawyer is that the client is concerned about being "outed" and subsequently harassed by the administration for trying to exercise a constitutional right. Conclude with the statement that should the request be denied, the client is prepared to appeal the decision to the superior court.

Might work -- watching them squirm would be worth the price of admission.

Hmm -- makes me think that going to law school would be worth it if only to be able to write lots of letters for college students. Eventually there would be enough clients for a class-action suit!

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Charles Paul Lincoln wrote:

Your lawyer might be the means to asking the question about concealed carry without the extra attention you don't want:

Have your lawyer draft a letter stating that he has a client who wishes to carry a concealed pistol on campus as permitted by the state constitution and the license issued by the State. The letter should include a statement that the client has not carried in violation of published rules, but given recent episodes of campus violence that the client wishes to exercise their right to self-defense as guaranteed by section 24. Make sure the letter also states that the reason the letter is being channeled through the lawyer is that the client is concerned about being "outed" and subsequently harassed by the administration for trying to exercise a constitutional right. Conclude with the statement that should the request be denied, the client is prepared to appeal the decision to the superior court.

Might work -- watching them squirm would be worth the price of admission.

Hmm -- makes me think that going to law school would be worth it if only to be able to write lots of letters for college students. Eventually there would be enough clients for a class-action suit!

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+1,000,000!!!

Great advice! I hadn't thought of that, due to being a UW student and having an "out" if I was ever "outed".

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great replies so far, keep them coming

thanks a lot