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Thread: New and scared to the idea.

  1. #1
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    I'm almost 19.I live in Riverview but travel in other cities around me. I'm am a fully trained Gunsmith and have 11 weapons of my own and going back to school to get my AIA in criminal justice. I have military training on firearms from the civil defense and had counter terrorist training. Now you know a little about me this is my fear. I have been throwing this around a lot and thinking of trying but I want a Job in Law Enforcement but I don’t want to throw it out the window.

    I know I can open carry but are there Major Risk involved?

    If I where ever to get confronted would this document help me?
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...04-PA-0130.htm

    If I did have a problem what should I do?

    Will I lose my gun or all my weapons for that matter? There not cheap.

    If I comply with this will I have any problems?
    http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123...0947--,00.html

    Sorry if it is a little much I just want to be covered on all areas.


  2. #2
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    First of all, WELCOME!!!

    It's always great having new members. (So join up and post all you lurkers out there!)

    Most people are worried about getting busted when they start OCing. It's an abnormal act by today's standards, especially in urban places, and the common sense of most people would make you think you'd get busted.

    However, you have on your side a few key facts. We have total state pre emption of city and township carry laws, an attorney general opinion that keep us from getting busted for brandishing, a DTP law that doesn't involve guns, and no known OC arrests for those who were following the law properly. If you got arrested, the worst case scenario would very likely be that the on call prosecutor would tell the cops to turn you loose immediately. And the fact is, we here have OC'd in a lot of places, including a few locations where the police said you would get busted without a doubt, and nothing has happened.

    As you said, the problem is your desire to be a cop. Police interaction like this COULD come back to haunt you. If I was you, what I would do is come to a meeting if you're interested, and you don't even have to carry if you don't want to. It would build your confidence, and even if you aren't packin', it's still a way to support the cause.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  3. #3
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    Can I see the opion number and any other Legal documents. I think i'm going to try it if and when I have the documentation for it.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Here is pretty much everything that would apply to OCing. I carry this printed off every time I OC. I also carry a pocket recorder, which I would suggest you also do. As I coincidentally just proved, it PAYS to have proof of what happened with police interactions.



    [size=Sec. 6. (of the Michigan constitution)

    Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=From the May 2007 MSP newsletter:

    In the April 2007 edition of the Update we noted that openly (non-concealed) carrying a pistol in Michigan is generally legal. Here we will note a couple of things to keep in mind during open carry situations.

    First, a person may not "open carry" a pistol in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Once a person enters a passenger compartment with a pistol they are carrying it concealed in violation of MCL 750.227. In order to carry in a passenger compartment, a person must either be licensed to carry a concealed pistol or otherwise be exempted from Section 227 (e.g., a police officer).

    Second, in the April edition we noted that a pistol cannot be carried in public where it violates local ordinance. This is true, but only where the ordinance is specifically authorized by state law.

    In MRCGO v. Ferndale, the Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession. Therefore, officers should check with their prosecutors before enforcing an ordinance that imposes a general ban on openly carrying a pistol.][/size]
    [size=][/size]
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    [size=Text of MCL 750.234d, Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty:

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act. No. 8 of the Public Acts of Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    [highlight= rgb(255, 255, 0);](c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=
    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.234e Brandishing firearm in public; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234e.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not knowingly brandish a firearm in public.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A peace officer lawfully performing his or her duties as a peace officer.
    (b) A person lawfully engaged in hunting.
    (c) A person lawfully engaged in target practice.
    (d) A person lawfully engaged in the sale, purchase, repair, or transfer of that firearm.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    [size=
    History: Add. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991
    ]
    © 2007 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
    __________________________________________________ ________________ ][/size]
    [size=From-
    Opinion No. 7101
    February 6, 2002
    Honorable Bill Bullard, Jr.
    State Senator
    The Capitol
    Lansing, MI
    Section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code does not define the crime of brandishing a firearm in public. The Michigan Criminal Jury Instructions, published by the Committee on Standard Criminal Jury Instructions, does not include a recommended jury instruction on brandishing a firearm. Research discloses that while the term "brandishing" appears in reported Michigan cases,2 none of the cases define the term.
    In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions. People v Denio, 454 Mich 691, 699; 564 NW2d 13 (1997). According to The American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition (1982), at p 204, the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. –n. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions. For example, in United States v Moerman, 233 F3d 379, 380 (CA 6, 2000), the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner."][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code.[size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=
    750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 227d.
    (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
    (a) Taken down.
    (b) Enclosed in a case.
    (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982
    © 2007 Legislative Council, State of Michigan][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=
    750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating § 312.10(1)(g).][/size]
    [size=(1) ][/size][size=Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded."][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.[size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=][/size]
    [size=FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)][/size][size=
    Act 319 of 1990][/size][size=][/size]
    [size=

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.][/size]
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
    123.1103 Permissible prohibitions or regulation.
    Sec. 3.
    This act does not prohibit a local unit of government from doing either of the following:
    (a)Prohibiting or regulating conduct with a pistol or other firearm that is a criminal offense under state law.
    (b)Prohibiting or regulating the transportation, carrying, or possession of pistols and other firearms by employees of that local unit of government in the course of their employment with that local unit of government.
    History: 1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991


    [size=][/size]




    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  5. #5
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    Thanks I'll have a book to carry but it is worth it.

  6. #6
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    Michigander wrote:
    First of all, WELCOME!!!


    As you said, the problem is your desire to be a cop. Police interaction like this COULD come back to haunt you. If I was you, what I would do is come to a meeting if you're interested, and you don't even have to carry if you don't want to. It would build your confidence, and even if you aren't packin', it's still a way to support the cause.
    Spenser, that is some very good advice andI agree 100 % with this statement...

  7. #7
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Blazingangel01 wrote:
    Thanks I'll have a book to carry but it is worth it.
    If you're going to carry all that, I suggest 2 things. Getting rid of that weird formating it did where it says all that "space" crap, and also shrinking the font size down, and printing it on both sides of the paper you print it on. That way it will easily fit on 2 sheets.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  8. #8
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    Thanks again, I put it on one paper double sided.

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