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Thread: Chesapeake Practices Gun Free Zone Mass Murder Response

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    First responders practice for mass shooting in Chesapeake



    By Kristin Davis
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © March 16, 2008

    CHESAPEAKE

    The dispatcher's voice crackled through the cool, overcast morning:

    "Be advised, multiple 911 calls... white male suspect walking through the building shooting people randomly."

    With that came more gun shots from somewhere inside the long brick buildings of Tidewater Community College's Chesapeake campus. Minutes passed. Wind rustled tree blossoms. Cars passed by.

    A line of students ran through the parking lot, heads slightly bent.

    The shots kept coming.

    Police arrived. Guns drawn, they headed inside.

    The guns were painted plastic; the victims who would stagger out with chest and head and knee wounds over the next half-hour were volunteers.

    The first responders, who came from Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Norfolk, Virginia Beach and the Virginia State Police, were practicing a scenario they say could happen any time - not just on a school campus, but in a factory, an office building, a mall.

    They were followed by a "coach" who critiqued their decisions as the scenario played out.

    "All you have to do is watch the news for a couple of weeks and see something like this happen," said Capt. Charlie Winslow of the Chesapeake Police Department, which has spent the past six months organizing the simulation.

    "We're doing our best to prepare for this in Hampton Roads," he said.

    The Virginia Tech shootings last April prompted the training, said Christi Golden, police spokeswoman.

    Volunteers filled classrooms Saturday morning, including TCC employees, citizen police academy attendees and Boy Scouts. The campus was closed; yellow crime scene tape closed off a vast "play area."

    Herb Glembin, the father of scouts, came with 25 others from Troop 6.

    He was holed up in Room 136 with two people who'd been "wounded" by the shooter - one in the knee, one in the stomach.

    Eventually, Glembin said, officers ran into the room, shouted for them to get their hands up. After checking out the injured, they escorted them out, past two victims who lay "shot" in the lobby.

    It was over in an hour, the shooter taken down, the survivors evacuated, the campus quiet again.

    Kristin Davis, (757) 222-5555, kristin.davis@pilotonline.com
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    ...no mention of casualties or response time. Typical, but at least this time around they didn't just barge into a random classroom and start "shooting" kids with plastic guns.
    -Unrequited

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    Ok so lets try it again this time with 3 out of 100 who are carrying and see what happens!!!!!

    No one knows who is carrying or what room the killer will strike.

    Will it make a difference?

    The better question is WILL THE KILLER CHOOSE A SCHOOL IF HE KNOWS PEOPLE COULD BE ARMED????

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    Ric - my thoughts exactly. This type of "excercise or practice" while doing some good, does not go through the entire what if scenario, and really needs to be played out twice to prove the point. Though we both know that it won't/wouldn't, because that's too logical.

    Running a scenario like this only shows the results for the scenario scripted, and what's meant to be scripted. It happens all the time in the military (in my experience and as documented in other's experience). No one likes a black eye, and too much free play and independent thinking does just that. It shoots holes in a "contingency plan" and shows where the problems are. In other words, this is a bad test case because it shows what happens when everyone is disarmed except for the shooter in the classroom. To really show what could happen, the scenario needs to be run multiple times, with multiple variables. This only shows what happens when the shooter is armed. Disappointing.

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    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    Ok so lets try it again this time with 3 out of 100 who are carrying and see what happens!!!!!

    No one knows who is carrying or what room the killer will strike.

    Will it make a difference?

    The better question is WILL THE KILLER CHOOSE A SCHOOL IF HE KNOWS PEOPLE COULD BE ARMED????
    I think this is some what of a false dichotomy. I don't think this would all together stop "school shootings", I think it would just limit how many people die. While I agree it would be a deterrent and the shooters specifically target "gun free zones," people target what they know. Most of these end in suicide anyway - i don't think dying is a worry for most.

    Would it stop shootings at colleges if people were allowed to carry? Maybe not. If someone at Virginia Tech had been carrying, it may have been a handful of people that lost their lives instead of 32. I don't think it would put an end to the shootings, I think it would just save lives when they happen.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Would it stop shootings at colleges if people were allowed to carry? Maybe not. If someone at Virginia Tech had been carrying, it may have been a handful of people that lost their lives instead of 32. I don't think it would put an end to the shootings, I think it would just save lives when they happen.
    Judging from prior discussions along these lines, I think most of us would agree with you on this matter. It would be a deterent, not a failsafe and the actual deterrent effect is just a guess. Regardless, it is better to have some chance than no chance.


    EDIT: No, no, really, English is my first language .... pay no attention to the typos behind the curtain.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    Judging from prior discussions along these lines, I think most of us would agree with you on this matter. It would be a deterent, not a failsafe and the actual deterrent effect is judge a guess. Regardless, it is better to have some chance than no chance.
    Exactly!

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    XD I am on the same page with you.

    The fact that carry is legal should slow them down somewhat and If they do decide to do it anyways...I'd at least like my kids to have the option to carry in college once they are legal.



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    I just got an evil idea...

    The nexttime a college pulls one of these drills, someone (preferably a gun owner, but not carrying) should should walk up to the "shooter", point a finger at him/her and say "Bang. Bang. You're dead, I just shot you with my simulated open/concealed carry weapon. This drill is over."

    If they're a military affiliated student, they could add the "Exercise, Exercise, Exercise!" chant before and after....

    Spread the word....:celebrate

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    I love it!!

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    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    XD I am on the same page with you.

    The fact that carry is legal should slow them down somewhat and If they do decide to do it anyways...I'd at least like my kids to have the option to carry in college once they are legal.
    Well, you can send them to Blue Ridge, for now...
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    hsmith wrote:
    While I agree it would be a deterrent and the shooters specifically target "gun free zones," people target what they know. Most of these end in suicide anyway - i don't think dying is a worry for most.
    I think it would make a big difference. Yeah, they plan to die, but they want to go out in a blaze of glory, making major headlines, setting mass murder records. The reason they choose to kill themselves in that particular fashion is so that they go down in history and millions know their name.

    If they get capped after only shooting one or two people, their great plan will have failed. Who remembers the name of the guy who tried to shoot up the church in Colorado? I remember the name of the woman who shot him.

    Not only that, I suspect that part of what they're after is a sense of godlike power, the ability to deal death at a whim, invincible while all of their tormentors run screaming and cower defenseless. Being godlike and invincible is incompatible with having to watch out for "victims" who fight back, and may even be far better at it than the shooter.

    Nah, I think it would be a huge deterrent.

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    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    The fact that carry is legal should slow them down somewhat and If they do decide to do it anyways...I'd at least like my kids to have the option to carry in college once they are legal.
    We have some top notch schools here in Utah. The University of Utah is an outstanding school for science, engineering, technology and medicine. Utah State University has great agriculture and civil engineering programs. Weber State University has a highly-respected MBA program, and one of the best nursing programs in the country. Southern Utah University is an awesome place to go to school, in the middle of the beatiful red rock desert, and has great drama and art programs.

    Utah won't issue them a permit until they're 21, but it honors ALL other permits, including those from states that issue at 18. There's an 18 year-old that participates on the Utah forum who's getting a non-resident Maine permit by mail, and that will make him legal to carry concealed in Utah.

    Also, we're working on getting the schools to admit that OC is legal on campus as well.

    I generally try not to encourage people to come to Utah, because too many of them end up staying, and we have enough people already. However, I'd *love* for the state to get a reputation as a destination chosen for its good gun laws, and the kind of kids who'd pick a school based on where they could responsibly and legally pack are the kind I'd be happy to have move in next door.

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    swillden wrote:
    ....and the kind of kids who'd pick a school based on where they could responsibly and legally pack are the kind I'd be happy to have move in next door.
    Yeah, but you might not like the people I hang out with.


    http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?i...98cf4a4pg4.jpg

    (I don't know what the heck she's doing there, either)
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    ....and the kind of kids who'd pick a school based on where they could responsibly and legally pack are the kind I'd be happy to have move in next door.
    Yeah, but you might not like the people I hang out with.


    http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?i...98cf4a4pg4.jpg

    (I don't know what the heck she's doing there, either)
    Playing superhero? She looks like she's fun.

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