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Thread: Questions

  1. #1
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    Ok, I've been reading this forum for a few days now and love the information. I have a few questions.


    Firearms may be openly carried in cars without any license except where localities have made open carry illegal; however, an Oregon concealed handgun permit holder is exempt from all local open carry bans. To our knowledge, only the cities of Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence have passed loaded firearms bans encompassing all public places.

    If i'm reading this right, since my wife and I have CHLs that means we can open carry anywhere? The portland/beaverton/tigard/etc laws of banning open cary in public places doesn't apply? A little help

    Also got a nice email from the chief of Tualatin, that i'll paste in here.

    If I'm understanding your email correctly, it sounds like you need to know if you can carry a handgun openly in a holster (and not concealed).
    As crazy as it may sound, that's legal in Oregon (as long as you're not a convicted felon) if you are out in the public.
    Private property and private businesses may frown on the idea of someone inside their store or on their property openly displaying a weapon and they could deny you entrance to their property. Public Schools do not allow weapons, so if you were to walk into a school with an openly displayed firearm, not only would you be asked to leave, you may attract a lot of attention from the school staff and/or School Police Officers.
    The Concealed Weapon Laws are specifically for when a person carry's a weapon on their person or within reach and the weapon is concealed.
    Hopefully, I've answered your question.
    Kent W. Barker
    Chief of Police
    Tualatin Police Department
    8650 SW Tualatin Road
    Tualatin, OR 97062
    503.691.4800

    -Syrythius

  2. #2
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    At least he didn't shun it entirely. Kudos to having an understanding police force.

    PS: Welcome aboard!

  3. #3
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    Welcome,

    You are correct, having an Oregon CHL exempts from places that ban it.

    The letter that you received from Tualatin is incorrect. It specifically states that a CHL exempts restriction from school grounds. It's just a scare tactic on their part.

    You can see below where I bolded the text.

    166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.[/b]

    (2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a person who intentionally possesses:

    (A) A firearm in a court facility is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony. A person who intentionally possesses a firearm in a court facility shall surrender the firearm to a law enforcement officer.

    (B) A weapon, other than a firearm, in a court facility may be required to surrender the weapon to a law enforcement officer or to immediately remove it from the court facility. A person who fails to comply with this subparagraph is guilty, upon conviction, of a Class C felony.

    (b) The presiding judge of a judicial district may enter an order permitting the possession of specified weapons in a court facility.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

    (b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

    (c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    (e) A person who is authorized by the officer or agency that controls the public building to possess a firearm or dangerous weapon in that public building.

    (f) Possession of a firearm on school property if the firearm:

    (A) Is possessed by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm; and

    (B) Is unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle.

    (4) The exceptions listed in subsection (3)(b) to (f) of this section constitute affirmative defenses to a charge of violating subsection (1) of this section.

    (5)(a) Any person who knowingly, or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, discharges or attempts to discharge a firearm at a place that the person knows is a school shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    (b) Paragraph (a) of this subsection does not apply to the discharge of a firearm:

    (A) As part of a program approved by a school in the school by an individual who is participating in the program; or

    (B) By a law enforcement officer acting in the officer’s official capacity.

    (6) Any weapon carried in violation of this section is subject to the forfeiture provisions of ORS 166.279.

    (7) Notwithstanding the fact that a person’s conduct in a single criminal episode constitutes a violation of both subsections (1) and (5) of this section, the district attorney may charge the person with only one of the offenses.

    (8) As used in this section, “dangerous weapon” means a dangerous weapon as that term is defined in ORS 161.015. [1969 c.705 §§2,4; 1977 c.207 §2; 1979 c.398 §2; 1989 c.839 §22; 1989 c.982 §5; 1991 c.67 §39; 1993 c.625 §1; 1999 c.782 §7; 1999 c.1040 §4; 2001 c.666 §§24,36; 2003 c.614 §6]




    PS. Please forward a copy of this letter to Oregon Firearms Federatin. They will correct them.

  4. #4
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    Thank you .

    What I want to know is why during both my CHL "class" and my wife's was it not mentioned we could also carry openly with that permit? My "instructor" even said i would lose my CHL permit if my gun became visible while carrying it...

    So the CHL lets you carry openly or concealed anywhere in the state?

    Danke

    -Syrythius

  5. #5
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    IANAL - but yes.

    All classes and LEO's will discourage it, but it is legal. But you have to know the laws and be willing to stand up for yourself and be willing to take a chance.

    We have yet to find out the outcome of recording in a public place, that will be interesting.



    syrythius wrote:
    Thank you .

    What I want to know is why during both my CHL "class" and my wife's was it not mentioned we could also carry openly with that permit? My "instructor" even said i would lose my CHL permit if my gun became visible while carrying it...

    So the CHL lets you carry openly or concealed anywhere in the state?

    Danke

    -Syrythius

  6. #6
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    syrythius wrote:
    Public Schools do not allow weapons, so if you were to walk into a school with an openly displayed firearm, not only would you be asked to leave, you may attract a lot of attention from the school staff and/or School Police Officers.
    The Concealed Weapon Laws are specifically for when a person carry's a weapon on their person or within reach and the weapon is concealed.
    Hopefully, I've answered your question.
    Kent W. Barker
    Chief of Police
    Tualatin Police Department
    8650 SW Tualatin Road
    Tualatin, OR 97062
    503.691.4800

    -Syrythius
    I'm a little confused by this, but there might be some truth. I believe that the Chief did a good job not shunning the idea all-together. That is definitely a good thing.

    As for his statement regarding Public Schools, he didn't completely rule it out. His reference was to openly displaying a firearm on school grounds. He stated that you would draw a lot of attention from School staff and/or Police Officers. I don't doubt that for a moment. I can completely see how staff and security would flock to an armed person on school grounds.

    In the following section he states that Concealed Carry Laws are for when a person is carrying concealed. Maybe his definition is that a CHL could carry on school grounds if/when concealed. Even if this is wrong information I imagine the experience would be much more pleasant.


  7. #7
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    I agree with your statement. Opencarry may bring un-due attention to yourself.

    I remember a couple years ago where a man was arrested for bringing a weapon on Oregon school grounds. He won and got his permit returned to him. A clear case of where the police intrepret the law rather than know the law.



  8. #8
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    Puddin99 wrote:
    I agree with your statement. Opencarry may bring un-due attention to yourself.

    I remember a couple years ago where a man was arrested for bringing a weapon on Oregon school grounds. He won and got his permit returned to him. A clear case of where the police intrepret the law rather than know the law.


    I remember that Lars Larsen did that.

    I'm wondering if it's him you're thinking of?

  9. #9
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    I may be mistaken but, I believe open carry on school grounds isrestricted byfederal law much like the ban on guns in a federal building, IRS, SSI, Fed courts, ect. (I'll double check to make sure that is correct.)

    There are also state buildings you can't carry in, court houses, sheriff depts to name a few.

    You can however carry concealed on school grounds with a CHL.

    open vs concealed, I imagine the distinction might well be; if you arepacking in a concealed fashion the intent* is to keep the firearm out of view. When carried as such if someone sees it and reports it youcould have a problem. (mainly if you displayed it in a manor ment to make others aware of its existence.)

    *If an issue develops regarding a handguns your "intent" will defiantly be a consideration.

    That was a reason my instructor suggested never to carry hand loaded rounds. The courts could conclude your intent was key as you made thoseextra deadlybullets

    Open carry is clearly defined as carried on ones hip in a holster and in plain view. Packing in such afashion leaves no question as to the existence of a firearm.

    Onemain benefit (for me) to having a CHL isbeing able to open carry a loaded handgun in Portland, Tigard. Beaverton, Oregon City, Salem and few other recently added to the list... Dallas I think. Without a CHL you can carry openly in these cities but without any rounds what so every, includingupa "recklessly" loaded clip in placed your pocket.



    Hats off to Chief Baker for almost getting it right.





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