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Thread: LEO Comments on OC

  1. #1
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    Someone who claims to be an LEO in Michigan has posted this on Michigan Gun Owners Forums.
    “We had a guy at Costco who was carrying concealed (with CPL) getting out of his car and the wind blew his coat/ shirt up exposing the gun on his belt. Some anti-gun idiot called screaming bloody murder cause someone had a gun "OMG we're all gonna die!!!"... I made sure I was the first one there and approached the guy in the store as I wasn't sure what the rest of the morons I was working with that day would have done. I simply asked him if he had a gun, he said yes, then I asked to see his CPL, he provided such and all was good in the hood. I explained to him someone saw that he had a gun on him in the lot and called police. For reasons such as this, carry the damn thing CONCEALED!!! Don't let any of it show. It wasn't this guy's fault, just wrong idiot saw him getting outta his car. I made sure I was there first so none of the morons I work with woulda thrown him against the wall etc. based on our call (it happens, sure some of you have first hand knowledge).

    Open carry.... There is no actual law stating that you cannot open carry a handgun. Best I know laws concerning carry of handguns pertain to concealment (I thing DNR laws specify open and concealed). I can guarentee you get arrested walking around in SE Michigan open carrying a handgun on your belt, especially without CPL. The state may not have a specific law, but there are alot of catch-all laws and ordinances that would apply (we'd use possession of a dangerous weapon or similar). Of course alot would be open to interpretation at the court level. But you'd still get legally arrested, gun seized as evidence, attorney costs, etc. It isn't worth it, especially if you loose.

    I know there are some who will argue the open carry topic... You will only hurt the gun rights cause via public opinion and possible unfavorable court rulings.”
    Thought you people might like to know as it might be a good opportunity to interact and educate someone in LE.


    Please cut and past the link. Thanks.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...744#post231744


  2. #2
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    Link doesn't work without being registered, and frankly, I have no interest in joining.

    That's ironic about his guarantee since I heard the same thing from a cop I talked to, as have many here, yet the cops never seem to actually do anything. When you do the dictionary definition of brandishing, you get people upset, and the police go nuts. When you walk around as you always do, acting very calm and very polite, but with a gun on your hip, those that even notice barely seem to mind. It's a simple fact we have proven.

    Anyhow, you should show him this picture.:P

    http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...er/OCDOpic.jpg
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Sorry,

    I didn't realize that you had to be a member to visit that sub forum.

  4. #4
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Michigan gun owners is a cool website with a bunch of great guys.

    Please don't condemn the whole site because of one or a few.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Anyhow, you should show him this picture.:P

    http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...er/OCDOpic.jpg
    FYI: It's opencarry.org not .com




  6. #6
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    Anyhow, you should show him this picture.:P

    http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...er/OCDOpic.jpg
    FYI: It's opencarry.org not .com



    Both work.

    http://www.opencarry.com
    http://www.opencarry.org


    Dot com is easier for people to remember.


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    Has contact been made with the LEO?

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    harley2003rkc wrote:
    Has contact been made with the LEO?
    I made the FIRST response to his statements. No response yet....

  9. #9
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    Michigan gun owners is a cool website with a bunch of great guys.

    Please don't condemn the whole site because of one or a few.
    I'm sure they are, and I am not bashing them. I am simply stating that they don't support OC, rather just rights for the licensed, and that is why I am not a member of that group.

    Nothing against that organization, but they are not my "cup of tea."
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  10. #10
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Michigan gun owners is a cool website with a bunch of great guys.

    Please don't condemn the whole site because of one or a few.
    snip...I am simply stating that they don't support OC, rather just rights for the licensed, and that is why I am not a member of that group...snip
    Thats not true at all.

    They even have a banner ad for opencarry.org/.com in their ad rotation at the top of the forums. (upper right)


  11. #11
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    WOOPS!!!



    My bad. I was getting confused with MCRGO!!!

    Sorry.

    I'd join up and post there, but I'm busy with other forums, and my days in Michigan are almost over.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I’m pleased to report (as some of you already know) that this particular officer checked with the city attorney, and has stated the legality of OC. I think his attitude about arresting someone solely for OC has definitely been changed. Thanks to all the OCDO members who had a part in this. I think it’s only fair to mention that the officer himself does deserve some commendation for the fact that, even though he was getting some harsh (not exactly undeserved) criticism, he came back and accounted for his transgressions, and followed through to get an opinion by someone who may in some future be responsible for bringing charges.

    I think we accomplished some education here.


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    ghostrider wrote:
    I’m pleased to report (as some of you already know) that this particular officer checked with the city attorney, and has stated the legality of OC. I think his attitude about arresting someone solely for OC has definitely been changed. Thanks to all the OCDO members who had a part in this. I think it’s only fair to mention that the officer himself does deserve some commendation for the fact that, even though he was getting some harsh (not exactly undeserved) criticism, he came back and accounted for his transgressions, and followed through to get an opinion by someone who may in some future be responsible for bringing charges.

    I think we accomplished some education here.
    Mission Accomplished :celebrate

    One down, ?,???,??? to go

  14. #14
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Michigan gun owners is a cool website with a bunch of great guys.

    Please don't condemn the whole site because of one or a few.
    snip...I am simply stating that they don't support OC, rather just rights for the licensed, and that is why I am not a member of that group...snip
    Thats not true at all.

    They even have a banner ad for opencarry.org/.com in their ad rotation at the top of the forums. (upper right)
    And they provide that FREE OF CHARGE! They are fellow gun owners and deserve our support.

    Our goal should be to gently change hearts and minds about open carry.



  16. #16
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    jpierce wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Michigan gun owners is a cool website with a bunch of great guys.

    Please don't condemn the whole site because of one or a few.
    snip...I am simply stating that they don't support OC, rather just rights for the licensed, and that is why I am not a member of that group...snip
    Thats not true at all.

    They even have a banner ad for opencarry.org/.com in their ad rotation at the top of the forums. (upper right)
    And they provide that FREE OF CHARGE! They are fellow gun owners and deserve our support.

    Our goal should be to gently change hearts and minds about open carry.


    Hey J,

    How do you think I'm doing in that thread on arfcom?

    Also, um...is there a way to donate funds to OCDO?


  17. #17
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    dougwg wrote:
    Hey J,

    How do you think I'm doing in that thread on arfcom?

    Also, um...is there a way to donate funds to OCDO?
    Doug,

    I think you are doing great over on arfcom. Your method of calm presentation matches my own and I feel it is by far the best way to present an idea to people who we want ultimately to come over to our point of view.

    It may not be today or even tomorrow but by keeping it professional and friendly (even when they ratchet up the rhetoric) you portray OCers in a positive light.

    As for your second question, a lot of people have been asking that so I have added a PayPal Donation button to the main page and to the header and footer of the forum.

    We are not asking for money or in danger of losing the forum or anything else that other sites say to generate revenue. Mike and I have always supported the site out of our own pockets because we are true believers and are dedicated to the cause and we are more than willing to continue doing so.

    However, having said that, I wouldn't say no to any donations that anyone would care to make. You may rest assured that your donations (any amount is welcome ... I think PayPal requires at least $1) will be used to pay the monthly hosting fees for the site and the forum.

    Thanks for asking and thanks for being part of the struggle to protect our rights!


    John


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    dougwg wrote: I think your doing great Doug. TBH, some of the people over there do sound like gun grabbers as you suggested. I haven't even the patience to listen to some of the ramblings as they sound like the same (or similar) ones the anti's used against CCW.

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    Wow. Not getting into any cross forum bashing, that's a good forum, but those ridiculous hypotheticals one after the other sound so childish, it's like arguing with a 3rd grader! "But, but what if this happens?Oh yeah? Well Mr. Smarty pants, what about This? Yeah, but what about THIS? Oh, well I just don't like it and it's wrong because I think so!"



    It'salmost as if they're grasping at justifying their own fears, trying to convince themselves. I'm not sure if people like that should bemore pitied or more feared. If CC were such a deterrent, why is there still crime in states with Right to Carry? OC definitely isa deterrent, period.

    Doug, you're doing great, but they're still asking "WHY OC?".

    Maybe this will help:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...141003#p141003

    and this:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...134362#p134362

    or even this:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...134081#p134081

    Here's a classic I enjoy:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/3753.html

    And the whole darn "Why Open Carry?" Forum for that matter!
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/


    Then invite them over to read for themselves!


  20. #20
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    Doug keep your head up. We're doing just fine over there. When I started that thread I never dreamed it would turn into the preschool argument it did. They can call me what ever they want as long as they don't call me defenseless.

  21. #21
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    I still think I could use a little help over there though.

  22. #22
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    ghostrider wrote:
    Someone who claims to be an LEO in Michigan has posted this on Michigan Gun Owners Forums.
    “We had a guy at Costco who was carrying concealed (with CPL) getting out of his car and the wind blew his coat/ shirt up exposing the gun on his belt. Some anti-gun idiot called screaming bloody murder cause someone had a gun "OMG we're all gonna die!!!"... I made sure I was the first one there and approached the guy in the store as I wasn't sure what the rest of the morons I was working with that day would have done. I simply asked him if he had a gun, he said yes, then I asked to see his CPL, he provided such and all was good in the hood. I explained to him someone saw that he had a gun on him in the lot and called police. For reasons such as this, carry the damn thing CONCEALED!!! Don't let any of it show. It wasn't this guy's fault, just wrong idiot saw him getting outta his car. I made sure I was there first so none of the morons I work with woulda thrown him against the wall etc. based on our call (it happens, sure some of you have first hand knowledge).

    Open carry.... There is no actual law stating that you cannot open carry a handgun. Best I know laws concerning carry of handguns pertain to concealment (I thing DNR laws specify open and concealed). I can guarentee you get arrested walking around in SE Michigan open carrying a handgun on your belt, especially without CPL. The state may not have a specific law, but there are alot of catch-all laws and ordinances that would apply (we'd use possession of a dangerous weapon or similar). Of course alot would be open to interpretation at the court level. But you'd still get legally arrested, gun seized as evidence, attorney costs, etc. It isn't worth it, especially if you loose.

    I know there are some who will argue the open carry topic... You will only hurt the gun rights cause via public opinion and possible unfavorable court rulings.”
    Thought you people might like to know as it might be a good opportunity to interact and educate someone in LE.


    Please cut and past the link. Thanks.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...744#post231744
    Can you provide the topic thread it is under? I can't seem to find the particular thread you reference.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    MGO Community Forum > General > Legal Beagle Corner

    When does "concealed" become "open" ?

  24. #24
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  25. #25
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    Venator wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Someone who claims to be an LEO in Michigan has posted this on Michigan Gun Owners Forums.
    “We had a guy at Costco who was carrying concealed (with CPL) getting out of his car and the wind blew his coat/ shirt up exposing the gun on his belt. Some anti-gun idiot called screaming bloody murder cause someone had a gun "OMG we're all gonna die!!!"... I made sure I was the first one there and approached the guy in the store as I wasn't sure what the rest of the morons I was working with that day would have done. I simply asked him if he had a gun, he said yes, then I asked to see his CPL, he provided such and all was good in the hood. I explained to him someone saw that he had a gun on him in the lot and called police. For reasons such as this, carry the damn thing CONCEALED!!! Don't let any of it show. It wasn't this guy's fault, just wrong idiot saw him getting outta his car. I made sure I was there first so none of the morons I work with woulda thrown him against the wall etc. based on our call (it happens, sure some of you have first hand knowledge).

    Open carry.... There is no actual law stating that you cannot open carry a handgun. Best I know laws concerning carry of handguns pertain to concealment (I thing DNR laws specify open and concealed). I can guarentee you get arrested walking around in SE Michigan open carrying a handgun on your belt, especially without CPL. The state may not have a specific law, but there are alot of catch-all laws and ordinances that would apply (we'd use possession of a dangerous weapon or similar). Of course alot would be open to interpretation at the court level. But you'd still get legally arrested, gun seized as evidence, attorney costs, etc. It isn't worth it, especially if you loose.

    I know there are some who will argue the open carry topic... You will only hurt the gun rights cause via public opinion and possible unfavorable court rulings.”
    Thought you people might like to know as it might be a good opportunity to interact and educate someone in LE.


    Please cut and past the link. Thanks.

    http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...744#post231744
    Can you provide the topic thread it is under? I can't seem to find the particular thread you reference.
    If you do go read the thread, keep in mind that that paticular LEO did check with a city prosecutor, and has pretty much had a change in viewpoint. The thread itself has drifted OT at this point since the issue had been resolved. It would be best to read the whole thread before passing any judgement.

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