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Thread: Landlord Trying to Violate my Rights

  1. #1
    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    So I finally have had my first true "encounter" while open carrying, and it wasn't even with a LEO. I was walking out of the house this morning to head to work, and my landlord pulled up. The following is the conversation that ensued.

    Landlord: "what the hell is that?" (like I insulted her.)

    Myself: "That would be my sidearm, why do you ask?"

    Landlord: "What do you need that for? You aren't a cop. You think your Wyatt Earp or something?"

    Myself: "I keep a sidearm to protect my family and myself should the need ever arise. While I hope it never will, I intend to be ready if it does. I don't feel that a police officer is the only person qualified to carry a gun. I served for 8 years in the military, was a special forces officer, and I assure you that I have extensive training in the handling of weapons, and am probably more qualified and a better shot with a sidearm than the local police." (I really tried to sound polite, and not sarcastic or overbearing. Not sure if I pulled it off however.)

    Landlord: "Well I don't care what training you have had. I don't like it and I'm telling you that you can't have that in my house."

    Myself: "Well Ms. ___ I am renting the house from you under a valid lease agreement. While you own the house you have no legal standing to infringe on my rights, or my legal enjoyment of my place of residence." (I have no clue if that is true but it sounded good in my head so I fired away with it so to speak)

    Landlord: "It's my house and I can tell you what you can and cant do any d*mned time I want to. If you are going to carry a F***ing gun then you aren't going to stay here."

    Myself: "I haven't been swearing at you so you need to quite swearing at me. I have to go to work. If you believe I am doing something illegal then I would advise you to call the police." ( I HATE being sworn at. makes my Irish act up.)

    Landlord" "I don't have to call the police and I am a grown ass woman and I will talk to you however I F***ing feel like. I am giving you 3 days to either get rid of your gun, or vacate my house. If you don't I'll come down here and throw your **** out." Then she got back in her car and left.

    Now, I am certainly looking for another residence as she is apparently certifiably crazy. I had never met her before, as her son handled all of our interactions before. The son seemed quite professional, and reasonable. I called him on my way to work, and told him what had transpired. He apologized, and told me his mother had "issues" and not to worry about it he would talk to her. (She is probably in her late 60's or early 70's) Should I worry about this? Should I tell the son that i don't want his mother on my property again, and do I have any legs to stand on?? Or can I break the lease with out penalty and move? I know, I know.. I need to talk to a lawyer. Just seeing if anyone else has any thoughts in the mean time.



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    Well, maybe it's different in Missouri, but her threats wouldn't wash in Ohio. I doubt she's able to throw you out for any reason with only 3 days notice, and if it's not in the lease, and it's not illegal, then let her go ahead and call the cops. Tenants have rights, but I'd still look for another place if I were made to feel that unwelcome. I wouldn't want to do business or live where I had to deal with anyonethat hostile. Sounds like she has "issues" indeed. Maybe you can get the son to keep her on a short leash in the meantime.

    -ljp

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    Yes, you should look for another place even if the law is on your side about the gun because she will make your life hell there.

    But I would think that you LEGALLY should have at least 30 days and only AFTER you are officially notified in writing to vacate the premises...that would give you plenty of time to find another rental.

    Use the law to give you more time...unless you CAN get out in 3 days, or want to.

    -- John D.



    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    I have wife and two young children. I cant get ready for a weekend vacation in three days, let alone pack up an entire house.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Next time she comes up to you and freaks, call the local police non-emergency number. If you have a valid lease, what does it say? It should give you all the valid information you need. I guarantee you that she will not legally be able to just throw you out in two daysregardless if you were doing something illegal or not, it is customary in most states to have at least 30 days. She has to abide by the lease agreement and the police can and will sort everything out. A lawyer is not a bad idea.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Then check outwebsites like these, do some reading,and become an "expert" in Missouri Lanlord/Tenant law:

    http://www.hud.gov/local/mo/renting/tenantrights.cfm


    Download and print-out this booklet:

    http://www.unaonline.org/documents/landlordtenant.pdf



    http://www.lawmo.org/law_llt.htm

    ...and there are others sites.

    Just tell her you're going to get out, but you will take the time legally available to you to do so as you can NOT get out in 3 days even if that demand WERE legal.

    You may have to call the cops though anyway to prevent her from putting your stuff out on the street in 3 days, but the law should be on your side to get out in 30 days (or whatever Missouri law states).

    What a nut-case woman.

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    So I finally have had my first true "encounter" while open carrying, and it wasn't even with a LEO. I was walking out of the house this morning to head to work, and my landlord pulled up. The following is the conversation that ensued.

    Landlord: "what the hell is that?" (like I insulted her.)

    Myself: "That would be my sidearm, why do you ask?"

    Landlord: "What do you need that for? You aren't a cop. You think your Wyatt Earp or something?"

    Myself: "I keep a sidearm to protect my family and myself should the need ever arise. While I hope it never will, I intend to be ready if it does. I don't feel that a police officer is the only person qualified to carry a gun. I served for 8 years in the military, was a special forces officer, and I assure you that I have extensive training in the handling of weapons, and am probably more qualified and a better shot with a sidearm than the local police." (I really tried to sound polite, and not sarcastic or overbearing. Not sure if I pulled it off however.)

    Landlord: "Well I don't care what training you have had. I don't like it and I'm telling you that you can't have that in my house."

    Myself: "Well Ms. ___ I am renting the house from you under a valid lease agreement. While you own the house you have no legal standing to infringe on my rights, or my legal enjoyment of my place of residence." (I have no clue if that is true but it sounded good in my head so I fired away with it so to speak)

    Landlord: "It's my house and I can tell you what you can and cant do any d*mned time I want to. If you are going to carry a F***ing gun then you aren't going to stay here."

    Myself: "I haven't been swearing at you so you need to quite swearing at me. I have to go to work. If you believe I am doing something illegal then I would advise you to call the police." ( I HATE being sworn at. makes my Irish act up.)

    Landlord" "I don't have to call the police and I am a grown ass woman and I will talk to you however I F***ing feel like. I am giving you 3 days to either get rid of your gun, or vacate my house. If you don't I'll come down here and throw your **** out." Then she got back in her car and left.

    Now, I am certainly looking for another residence as she is apparently certifiably crazy. I had never met her before, as her son handled all of our interactions before. The son seemed quite professional, and reasonable. I called him on my way to work, and told him what had transpired. He apologized, and told me his mother had "issues" and not to worry about it he would talk to her. (She is probably in her late 60's or early 70's) Should I worry about this? Should I tell the son that i don't want his mother on my property again, and do I have any legs to stand on?? Or can I break the lease with out penalty and move? I know, I know.. I need to talk to a lawyer. Just seeing if anyone else has any thoughts in the mean time.

    Good morning. I am a landlord in WA State and have been for over 20 years. In this State she does not have the right to make you move unless your lease has something in it regarding handguns or other weapons that are specific to your lease.

    I agree with the others who wrote about moving. She is a nut case and could make it difficult for you to enjoy your apartment.

    good luck

    Dave

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    I would write your lessor a simple one page certified mail letter CALMLY memorializing her harassment of you in interrference of your right to quiet enjoyment of your leased property and demand that the lessor cease and desist such harassment.

  9. #9
    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    I had the wife fax me over our lease, and there isn't anything in it about weapons. I contacted an attorney, and they said she would have to get a court order of eviction (takes 30 days) but could only do that if I were doing something illegal in the premises. I will probably still end up moving unless the son assures me I will NEVER see that nut case mother of his again. I don't want to move if I can help it as it is such a hassle, and it's a nice house in a great area. It took us 2 months to settle on that house and area as it is. Guess I will have to see what the son says after the lawyer calls him. The lawyer said that there is some kind of "peacable enjoyment" law that says that the landlord cant interfere with peacable enjoyment of your dwelling. He said he will contact the son and see what happens.

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    It is cases like this that have specifically prompted the following bill currently in the state legislature here in AZ:
    Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

    Section1.Section 33-1315, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

    START_STATUTE33-1315.Prohibited provisions in rental agreements

    A.A rental agreement shall not provide that the tenant does any of the following:

    1.Agrees to waive or to forego rights or remedies under this chapter or waive or forego the peaceful exercise of rights guaranteed under article II, constitution of Arizona.
    And what does article II of the AZ constitution say? Well amongst other things:
    Article II Section 26:

    The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense
    of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing
    in this section shall be construed as authorizing individ-
    uals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an
    armed body of men.
    :celebrate



  11. #11
    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    Dahwg wrote:
    It is cases like this that have specifically prompted the following bill currently in the state legislature here in AZ:
    Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

    Section1.Section 33-1315, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

    START_STATUTE33-1315.Prohibited provisions in rental agreements

    A.A rental agreement shall not provide that the tenant does any of the following:

    1.Agrees to waive or to forego rights or remedies under this chapter or waive or forego the peaceful exercise of rights guaranteed under article II, constitution of Arizona.
    And what does article II of the AZ constitution say? Well amongst other things:
    Article II Section 26:

    The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense
    of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing
    in this section shall be construed as authorizing individ-
    uals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an
    armed body of men.
    :celebrate

    Maybe I can get the company to move me to arizona . I have been trying to get them to open stores in alaska so I can move there for a year and a half!

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    To my understanding the landlord also has to provide you with adequate notice she/he (Owner) will be on the premises, further more like it has already been stated she can not just tell you to leave.

    If she wants you gone then she needs to go through the eviction process, which in turn taken foreveeeeeer..

    Just my two cents

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    Is this a house where there is one unit (you)? Or a 2-3 unit house?

    I ask as there may be complications due to "owner ocupancy". When I rented I stayed away from 3 unit rentals just because most time the owner lived there.

    Also, if she is unstable, she just might gain access while you're not there.

    -R

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    In this instance the lease wording is key. Unless it specifically states no firearms in the document, she has no legal standing to tell you anything. She can make all the claims she wants about 3 days to move, but if she attempted to enforce that she would be in breach of contract and in a very litigious and liable position.



    Her only option in this instance would be to attempt eviction proceedings, but would have to prove illegal activity or activity which presents an immediate and egregious danger to her owned property. Possession of a lawfully owned and carried firearm doesn’t even come close. Any lawyer or court official who investigated would tell her she has no legal standing to force an eviction.



    Bottom line. . .pay your rent on time, follow all the articles of your lease and she won’t have any lawful backing behind having you evicted. I’d also advise getting some video recording device and placing it inside of your home. Given your account I could easily see this dimwit attempting to enter your rental unit without any notification, which I’m betting would be a violation of the lease terms, and were you to press charges get her in hot water.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    mmdkyoung123,

    Yes, moving is a hassle...I am in the process of moving only myself (800 miles from here to Galveston, TX as of June 1st) and not a family like you did but that's still plenty of hassle for me and my LOTS of stuff! Not to mention struggling to move/ship my 1000-pound safe ($$$). Except for the safe, I'm doing it myself, no movers/moving company.

    Sounds like you have a good plan. Speak to the son and maybe things can clam down. If not, the mother will be getting in legal trouble -- if youwish to or HAVE to pursue that option -- so it's in his best interest to set her straight.

    Good luck,

    -- John D.

    P.S. After you leave, I'm sure she will edit her lease for the next lucky tenant...

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    rdinatal wrote:
    Is this a house where there is one unit (you)? Or a 2-3 unit house?

    I ask as there may be complications due to "owner ocupancy". When I rented I stayed away from 3 unit rentals just because most time the owner lived there.

    Also, if she is unstable, she just might gain access while you're not there.

    -R
    It's a singe dwelling house. I am sure if I asked, the neighbors would call me if they saw someone there while I was away. It's a very nice neighborhood. I have gotten along great with the neighbors since being there, as they have kids the same age as mine, and the dad is an AVID pistol collector and we have been to the range a couple of times together. I don't want to move, but don't like being hasseled either. It's hard to keep "me irish" down and keep a civil tongue after awhile.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    I had the wife fax me over our lease, and there isn't anything in it about weapons. I contacted an attorney, and they said she would have to get a court order of eviction (takes 30 days) but could only do that if I were doing something illegal in the premises. I will probably still end up moving unless the son assures me I will NEVER see that nut case mother of his again. I don't want to move if I can help it as it is such a hassle, and it's a nice house in a great area. It took us 2 months to settle on that house and area as it is. Guess I will have to see what the son says after the lawyer calls him. The lawyer said that there is some kind of "peacable enjoyment" law that says that the landlord cant interfere with peacable enjoyment of your dwelling. He said he will contact the son and see what happens.
    You did the right thing. While several of us would have been able to tell you the law on this matter, we would not have had the standing to contact the son and explain the law to him (and his mother) and the consequences for violating that law.

    If she harrasses you again and you document both cases, and being that it is her son and not her who takes care of the property, your atty may suggest a restraining order against the mother. That might solve all your problems and allow you to stay in the home peacefully for the life of your lease.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Now that you've talked to a lawyer you should ask him before doing anything we say here, but I'm going to say ditto on getting a camera!

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    I had a similar situation several years ago - similar enough that it makes me wonder if it's not the same crazy woman. She had a tendancy to enter w/o calling first or even knocking. When we protested we got the same reaction as the OP with her saying she could come in at 3:00 am if she wanted to. I politely informed her that doing so was a good way to end up shot as an intruder and that the law would be on my side (not that that was a smart thing to say). The corporate attorney for the company I worked for at the time drafted a stongly worded letter to her along the lines of "you have two choices, (1) cease/desist NOW, (2) keep going and you'll end up signing over your real-estate to my client - either way, you ARE going to stop it's just a matter of who ends up owning your property and how high my legal bills are when YOU pay them". After she got the letter you never saw so much ass kissing from a landlord. ah, Dave was a great lawyer.... I wish he practiced in Colorado.

    anyway - stick w/ your lawyer, do everything he tells you to and hide nothing from him.

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    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate



    ROFLMAO.. I love that response Rocky...

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    In Virginia, landlords can't ban guns.

    I don't know about MO, but if your lease doesn't mention it, that house is your house. You have all the rights you would have in your own home except those that are explicitly agreed to be given up in the lease.

    Don't give in. If he tries to kick you out before your lease is up, you may have the opportunity to make some good case law in MO.

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    Read the lease laws of your state.

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    Regular Member mmdkyoung123's Avatar
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    thanks for all the help guys. The lawyer contacted the son by phone and also sent a certified letter, letting them know that I would only plan on staying in the residence if the mom did not come back over to the house with out the son present. He said the son was understanding and apologized again. I figure they would like ot keep me as a tenant as I pay a month ahead and they haven't had any problems. Guess we will see. Thanks again guys.

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    mmdkyoung123 wrote:
    thanks for all the help guys. The lawyer contacted the son by phone and also sent a certified letter, letting them know that I would only plan on staying in the residence if the mom did not come back over to the house with out the son present. He said the son was understanding and apologized again. I figure they would like ot keep me as a tenant as I pay a month ahead and they haven't had any problems. Guess we will see. Thanks again guys.
    Great outcome. Good tenants are hard to find let alone keep.:P

    Silverfox44

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    Actually on her property she has the right to state the rules, now me I give discounts to pro gunners in my apartments.

    Take baby steps invite her to the shooting range get her enthused, show her some of the NRA citizen stories, convert her!!

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