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Thread: VA Emergency Powers Bill

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    does va. have a emergency powers bill?

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    Give a man a fish....

    Teach him to fish...

    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm



    And just because its been incredibly useful:

    http://www.courts.state.va.us/search/textopinions.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    cant get it to go to it. is it yes or no.

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    Yes, Virginia has an emergency powers bill.

    I think we were the second state to have one. It was not controversial, even Gov. Kaine signed it without comment or lectures.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Empower the Governor, any political subdivision, or any other governmental authority to in any way limit the rights of the people to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of Virginia or the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, including the lawful possession, sale, or transfer of firearms except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;

    Am I missing something or is that a pretty broad power essentially saying that if you need emergency shelter in a disaster that, in the name of public safety, the gov't can disarm you?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    Empower the Governor, any political subdivision, or any other governmental authority to in any way limit the rights of the people to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of Virginia or the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, including the lawful possession, sale, or transfer of firearms except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;

    Am I missing something or is that a pretty broad power essentially saying that if you need emergency shelter in a disaster that, in the name of public safety, the gov't can disarm you?
    This says that the Governor of Virginia has the power to override the Constitution of the United States during a state emergency? WTF? It sounds like New Orleans all over again!

    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    It does state that designated shelters MAY restrict firearms/weapons in the event of an emergency. It only applies to Government instituted shelters and does not apply to homes or individually erected shelters. Since most of the emergency shelters in VA are at schools, they are still restricted regardless!



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    Bill in VA wrote:
    SNIP Other than that, the Virginia state government cannot just declare an emergency and disarm us in the name of public safety.
    Not legally, anyway.

    I do recall some agitating back when this was passed that it would allow disarming the temporary refugees on the buses and so forth that would take them to the "designated facility." Don't know if there was anything to that or not. Can't recall whether there was a cite to the Code.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Bill in VA wrote:
    No offense, ODA and deepdiver, but I think you guysare missing a crucial part of what you're reading. To cut out all theextraneous fluff and to get to the root of the statute, stick with what's in bold font:

    § 44-146.15. Construction of chapter.

    Nothing in this chapter is to be construed to:

    (1) Limit, modify, or abridge the authority of the Governor to exercise any powers vested in him under other laws of this Commonwealth independent of, or in conjunction with, any provisions of this chapter;

    (2) Interfere with dissemination of news or comment on public affairs; but any communications facility or organization, including, but not limited to, radio and television stations, wire services, and newspapers, may be required to transmit or print public service messages furnishing information or instructions in connection with actual or pending disaster;

    (3) Empower the Governor, any political subdivision, or any other governmental authority to in any way limit the rights of the people to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of Virginia or the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, including the lawful possession, sale, or transfer of firearms except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;

    In other words, they state government can prohibit you from bringing your firearms with you to a state-designated emergency shelter. If Richmond floods from Hurricane Klaus and the Richmond Civic Center is opened as an emergency shelter (the sameas NOLA did with the Superdome during Hurricane Katrina) you'll have to rely on the Richmond PD, Wackenhut, or the Crips to provide for your safety and welfare. Other than that, the Virginia state government cannot just declare an emergency and disarm us in the name of public safety.
    No offense taken. I posted a question as I didn't know if my reading was correct. Thank you for your answer.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    No offense taken either! :P
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Laws are funny things. A single word can change the "reading" as it's called by the Supreme Court, just a synonym for perspective.

    Forgive the over ANALysis but let me just theorize for a moment.

    (3) Empower the Governor, any political subdivision, or any other governmental authority to in any way limit the rights of the people to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of Virginia or the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, including the lawful possession, sale, or transfer of firearms except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;
    Let's say during this state of emergency, the government issues a mandatory curfew and requires people to stay home, under the premise the home provides shelter from the emergency situation. As such, everyone's home becomes "any place...for the purpose of sheltering persons".

    I know, it's anal....but thoughts?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    That's the kind of perspective I was asking about in my earlier post. I find the statute objectionable given that it could be construed to encompass a wide range of places. Essentially, if one is not prepared and able to take care of one's self entirely during a state of emergency and has to rely on gov't help of any type, any place you go to obtain that help could be designated as a "gun free zone".

    Furthermore, the statute is not clear that if a restriction on firearms is imposed, how that imposition is to occur. Can they seize your firearms? If they do, do they have to give them back? Do they have to catalogue them to ensure that you, and no one else, gets your firearm returned. Do they have any liability if they do not? What type of records would you need to recover your firearms? Where and how will firearms subject to such a restriction be stored and under whose authority and responsibility? If you go to a shelter for a single night and are disarmed and then leave the next morning, can you take your firearm with you? Once you surrender it in some manner, does it stay surrendered until the end of the emergency? And what about ammunition? The statute is moot as to that issue. Even if they do not seize your firearm, can they seize, restrict, prohibit the sale, possession, transfer, storage of ammunition?

    Maybe I am being paranoid on the issue, but I think the law is far too broad, leaves far too many questions unanswered, and gives the government far too much unfettered ability to make up rules as it goes along. Furthermore, VA currently has an administration admittedly unfriendly to firearms and their owners, increasing the likelihood that in an emergency that this statute will be misused and abused by civil authorities. Then again, perhaps there are other statutes or case law about which I am ignorant that would preclude any of the above scenarios.


    Maybe I am spoiled. Missouri passed an Emergency Powers Protection Law about a year ago. It is beautiful in it's simplicity:
    Firearms and ammunition, state of emergency, no restrictions permitted. RsMO 44.101. The state, any political subdivision, or any person shall not prohibit or restrict the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transportation, storage, display, or use of firearms or ammunition during an emergency.
    http://www.moga.state.mo.us/STATUTES/C044.HTM

    That's it. No equivocating about "public safety". Nothing vague or subject to interpretation. And they were careful to include ammunition in the language as well. If only the VA legislature had stopped just before the word "except" and had included ammunition.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Citizen wrote:
    Give a man a fish....

    Teach him to fish...



    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
    Teach him how to fish and he will sit
    in a boat and drink beer all day.



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    thnycav wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Give a man a fish....

    Teach him to fish...



    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
    Teach him how to fish and he will sit
    in a boat and drink beer all day.

    Give a man fire and he will be warm for a day.

    Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    deepdiver wrote:
    <snip>
    That's it. No equivocating about "public safety". Nothing vague or subject to interpretation. And they were careful to include ammunition in the language as well. If only the VA legislature had stopped just before the word "except" and had included ammunition.
    There you go....open to interpretation....just means the govt can do whatever it wants until the courts say otherwise. And there's no liability because technically it "could" be interpreted under the most extreme sense.

    I don't care what the law says, if you come into my home to take my guns, you will be encountered with armed resistance, and I will fire first and ask questions later. How do I know that just because you're yelling "Police! Search warrant!" you're not a criminal actually saying those things trying to get me to lower my gun so you can rob me?

    (Forgive the bluntness....)

    And you'll have a tough time convincing me it's in my best interest to be disarmed during an emergency. In fact, emergency preparation is the reason I became interested in guns in the first place. My emergency shelter (for me, my wife, and my dog) has water, non perishable food, two shotguns and lots of ammo. Admittedly, I only have enough for 30 days, and some think my supplies should last longer, but with only 30 days supply for 2 people and a dog, others will have to go elsewhere to find help, kill me, or die trying.

    Tim

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    Give a man fire and he will be warm for a day.

    Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
    Have you ever read the poem, The Cremation of Sam McGee by Robert Service?

    There are strange things done in the midnight sun
    By the men who moil for gold;
    The Arctic trails have their secret tales
    That would make your blood run cold;
    The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
    But the queerest they ever did see
    Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
    I cremated Sam McGee.


    Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, where the cotton blooms and blows.
    Why he left his home in the South to roam 'round the Pole, God only knows.
    He was always cold, but the land of gold seemed to hold him like a spell;
    Though he'd often say in his homely way that "he'd sooner live in hell."


    (eleven stanza's later, after Sam has died, the cremation is underway, and his buddy decides to look in and see if Sam is burned up yet):

    And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;
    And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and said: "Please close that door.
    It's fine in here, but I greatly fear, you'll let in the cold and storm —
    Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm."


    http://tinyurl.com/2dzjj9
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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