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Thread: OC in Alameda County??

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    There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Gorunds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

    Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    S&W5906 wrote:
    There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Gorunds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

    Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?
    http://www.acgov.org/admin/admincode..._9/12/120.html

    Looks like it is County Property and you are definitely out of luck forOpen Carry.



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    S&W5906 wrote:
    There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Grounds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

    Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?
    I believe you will likely be the only one OCingat that venue, unless you bring a like-minded friend.

    You might want to throw that venue through the filter of PC171b as follows;

    171b. (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or
    local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the
    public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part
    1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section
    11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the
    Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense
    punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one
    year, or in the state prison:
    (1) Any firearm.

    (c) As used in this section, "state or local public building"
    means a building that meets all of the following criteria:
    (1) It is a building or part of a building owned or leased by the
    state or local government, if state or local public employees are
    regularly present for the purposes of performing their official
    duties. A state or local public building includes, but is not
    limited to, a building that contains a courtroom.
    (2) It is not a building or facility, or a part thereof, that is
    referred to in Section 171c, 171d, 626.9, 626.95, or 626.10 of this
    code, or in Section 18544 of the Elections Code.
    (3) It is a building not regularly used, and not intended to be
    used, by state or local employees as a place of residence.
    If this event is in its entirety outdoors or the definition above of 'public building' doesnt exactly cover the fairgrounds structures, I dont think it would be a problem. But you do have the added benefit of the Alameda County Sheriff's Department already having hadcontact with a open carrier from Pennsylvania not long ago.

    You may still want to check Alameda County's ordinances...

    http://www.acgov.org/admin/admincode/index.htm

    Oops. I just found what you needed.


    9.12.120 Possession of firearms on county property prohibited.

    B. Misdemeanor. Every person who brings onto or possesses on county property a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or ammunition for a firearm is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    C. County Property. As used in this section, the term county property means real property, including any buildings thereon, owned or leased by the county of Alameda (hereinafter “county”), and in the county’s possession, or in the possession of a public or private entity under contract with the county to perform a public purpose, including but not limited to real property owned or leased by the county in the unincorporated and incorporated portions of the county, such as the county park in Sunol and the Alameda County Fairgrounds in the city of Pleasanton, but does not include any “local public building” as defined in Penal Code Section 171b(c), where the state regulates possession of firearms pursuant to Penal Code Section 171b.
    This pretty much puts the damper on OC at the fairgrounds. The code however, is somewhat in conflict with State law, as this constitutes a total ban on firearms possession. The exceptions are few and expected- peace officer, those licensed to carry concealed, security guard, etc...

    Im going to have to review my countys ordinances too- Ive been contemplating doing a carry at one of the many events they have there.
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    Thanks for the information.. I needed clarification on the matter..

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    Damn, I was looking for something to do this weekend too. I'll probably just go to Costco and see if their Modesto store has the same policy as their Turlock store.
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    S&W5906 wrote:
    There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Gorunds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

    Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?
    Hey I missed this thread by some months but I'm looking for people to UOC with out here too. I'm from Oakland, send me a PM. I'm trying to at least get a list of people together. We Definitely have to do it in numbers for a while out here. You will get SWAT on you in a second by yourself until the LEO's learn the law.

    One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then.

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    S&W5906 wrote:
    There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Gorunds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

    Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?
    Hey I missed this thread by some months but I'm looking for people to UOC with out here too. I'm from Oakland, send me a PM. I'm trying to at least get a list of people together. We Definitely have to do it in numbers for a while out here. You will get SWAT on you in a second by yourself until the LEO's learn the law.

    One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then.

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    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then.
    That's what I hear from most LE too. And as far as his interpretation of the 2A, he's right as far as CA law is concerned. That's why Heller incorporation is really gonna shake things up here.
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then.
    That's what I hear from most LE too. And as far as his interpretation of the 2A, he's right as far as CA law is concerned. That's why Heller incorporation is really gonna shake things up here.
    Yea lets hope we actually get it. Last I heard it was some months out.

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    Hey, I stay around in the 20s. Hows your list of Alameda County (ALCO) guys looking?



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    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    Yea lets hope we actually get it. Last I heard it was some months out.
    The briefs filing deadline was Oct 13, if I remember correctly. I haven't heard anything about a date being set for oral arguments, but I think they are expecting that to happen no later than January. Could happen as early as December. So, expect a decision anywhere from December to March (though it's possible it could be later).
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    Yeah enough time being prone, and that would be a good lawsuit.

    Get a good recorder and maybe a friend to video the situation.

    Its called learning the hard way ! Robin47

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    Showerbabies wrote:
    Hey, I stay around in the 20s. Hows your list of Alameda County (ALCO) guys looking?


    Well...:?still waiting to hear from a couple of people, there wasn't goingto be many anyway but there could be a possible smalldinner booth full of people if everybody responds. I haven't really been looking too hard either because it is not "that time" yet. Anybody I run across until then I see if they want to get on board.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Well I'm still down, if we get a decent group together.

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    So .. seems like me, MrSigma and Marshaul. Whoelse is a maybe? I need 5 or 6 people before the old lady says yes to UOC =).

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    Depending on the date/time, I may be able to make it. Now that gas is $1.85 driving to the Bay Area is no big deal.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Depending on the date/time, I may be able to make it.* Now that gas is $1.85 driving to the Bay Area is no big deal.
    Don't worry, we'll schedule so that you can make it.

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    I also live in Oakland and would join the group. I mentioned this to one of my employees and he said that he would also come.

    So that's +2 !

    Didn't some group already do this somewhere else and let the police know first, as one would do during a peaceful protest?

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    If you are planning a new event, I would recommend starting a new link and forming a schedule. It would also be beneficial to cross post to CalGuns.net to boost participation.

    I may be able to participate, if I have reliable transportation and it is a weekend event.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

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    Justice76 wrote:
    Didn't some group already do this somewhere else and let the police know first, as one would do during a peaceful protest?
    The first big meetup was in Sacramento. I coordinated the event. I didn't feel the need to notify anybody that we would be gathering... other than our reservation at the Outback Steakhouse (which didn't include an announcement that we would be armed). I feel it sends the wrong statement when you act as if you should have to notify the venue or local LE. In the case of our Sacramento dinner, the venue didn't seem to care, they seemed happy to have the business. We didn't see any LEOs there, so I guess they didn't care either.

    The last meetup I arranged was in response to Turlock PD violating my rights and basically telling me, "don't do this in our town." I was directly asked to share venue info with the PD. I politely refused, as I saw no reason to invite them. The lunch went off without a hitch. The venue seemed to be glad to have a party of 16 on a slow day.

    A large group has met up in San Diego a couple times now. They chose to notify their local LE and cleared it with their venue. The first time lots of LE showed up to babysit the event. Of course, nothing extraordinary occurred. The second time I don't think they even showed up. The venue is owned by gun-friendly people, so no issue there.
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    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then.
    That's what I hear from most LE too.* And as far as his interpretation of the 2A, he's right as far as CA law is concerned.* That's why Heller incorporation is really gonna shake things up here.
    Yea lets hope we actually get it. Last* I heard it was some months out.
    CA-Libertarian - I just now was re-reading this thread and noticed your comment on how CA law stands on the 2A. What do you mean by that? If it's somehow illegal here, how have you had successful UOC events around CA such as the ones you've previously organized?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    In California, what gun right we have derive not from any Constitutionally-enumerated right, but merely from our legislature not having gotten around to banning them yet.

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    Justice76 wrote:
    CA-Libertarian - I just now was re-reading this thread and noticed your comment on how CA law stands on the 2A. What do you mean by that? If it's somehow illegal here, how have you had successful UOC events around CA such as the ones you've previously organized?
    Current case law holds that the 2A is a state protection, not an individual protection. This has two important implications. First, it cannot be used as a defense. Second, it cannot be used to legally/financially pressure LE to stop harassing gun owners. These two things will change significantly following incorporation.

    As for events, there's nothing illegal about them. We're not talking civil disobedience here, so we don't need a constitutional standing to engage in the activity.
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    Interesting. So, the 2A can't be used to pressure LE not to harass us because it hasn't been incorporated. But UOC it is still legal through CA PC 12025.

    So, spreading knowledge about the CURRENT laws within the CA PC, such as with our flyers, helps a lil' bit, but what are we hoping will happen with true incorporation? I don't necessarily mean will we get LOC, or "shall issue" CCW. I mean, will it be the sweeping public/LE awareness that will come through the publicity of the hearings and subsequent incorporation or the actual laws that will change?

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    Justice76 wrote:
    But UOC it is still legal through CA PC 12025.
    Close, but the implication here is that acts, such as UOC, remain illegal until legislation, such as PC 12025, specifically permits them. However, even in California anything that does not violate natural and common law is permissible by default until actively proscribed by law.

    So, rather than UOC being legal through PC 12025, UOC is legal because no law, including PC 12025, prohibits it.

    It may seem like a quibble of semantics, but there are concrete legal ramifications, and so the precision of one's phraseology is critical.

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