OC in Alameda County??

Justice76 · Dec 9, 2008

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MrSigmaDot40 wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

MrSigmaDot40 wrote:

One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then:banghead:.

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That's what I hear from most LE too. And as far as his interpretation of the 2A, he's right as far as CA law is concerned. That's why Heller incorporation is really gonna shake things up here.

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Yea lets hope we actually get it. Last I heard it was some months out.

CA-Libertarian - I just now was re-reading this thread and noticed your comment on how CA law stands on the 2A. What do you mean by that? If it's somehow illegal here, how have you had successful UOC events around CA such as the ones you've previously organized?

marshaul · Dec 9, 2008

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In California, what gun right we have derive not from any Constitutionally-enumerated right, but merely from our legislature not having gotten around to banning them yet.

CA_Libertarian · Dec 10, 2008

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Justice76 wrote:

CA-Libertarian - I just now was re-reading this thread and noticed your comment on how CA law stands on the 2A. What do you mean by that? If it's somehow illegal here, how have you had successful UOC events around CA such as the ones you've previously organized?

Current case law holds that the 2A is a state protection, not an individual protection. This has two important implications. First, it cannot be used as a defense. Second, it cannot be used to legally/financially pressure LE to stop harassing gun owners. These two things will change significantly following incorporation.

As for events, there's nothing illegal about them. We're not talking civil disobedience here, so we don't need a constitutional standing to engage in the activity.

Justice76 · Dec 10, 2008

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Interesting. So, the 2A can't be used to pressure LE not to harass us because it hasn't been incorporated. But UOC it is still legal through CA PC 12025.

So, spreading knowledge about the CURRENT laws within the CA PC, such as with our flyers, helps a lil' bit, but what are we hoping will happen with true incorporation? I don't necessarily mean will we get LOC, or "shall issue" CCW. I mean, will it be the sweeping public/LE awareness that will come through the publicity of the hearings and subsequent incorporation or the actual laws that will change?

marshaul · Dec 10, 2008

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Justice76 wrote:

But UOC it is still legal through CA PC 12025.

Close, but the implication here is that acts, such as UOC, remain illegal until legislation, such as PC 12025, specifically permits them. However, even in California anything that does not violate natural and common law is permissible by default until actively proscribed by law.

So, rather than UOC being legal through PC 12025, UOC is legal because no law, including PC 12025, prohibits it.

It may seem like a quibble of semantics, but there are concrete legal ramifications, and so the precision of one's phraseology is critical.

Gray Peterson · Dec 10, 2008

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Do not under any circumstances open carry at the Alameda County Fairgrounds.

The Fair Grounds issue is currently being litigated in Nordyke v. King.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King

The law is currently being challenged by Russell Nordyke, by attorney Don Kilmer, and by the Calguns Coalition. It is expected to be decided within 4 months.

CA_Libertarian · Dec 10, 2008

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Justice76 wrote:

So, spreading knowledge about the CURRENT laws within the CA PC, such as with our flyers, helps a lil' bit, but what are we hoping will happen with true incorporation? I don't necessarily mean will we get LOC, or "shall issue" CCW. I mean, will it be the sweeping public/LE awareness that will come through the publicity of the hearings and subsequent incorporation or the actual laws that will change?

Educating the public and LE helps a lot, I think. Compared to a year ago, UOC has covered a lot of ground. After the CPOA memo, I would be surprised to see any more false arrests (once the memo has had time to circulate, that is).

Incorporation will change both things: sweeping public/LE awareness AND the laws. The laws won't all change overnight, but incorporation gives us the standing to challenge laws. However, I believe that once the ruling is final there will be immediate ramifications if LE continue to violate our rights. Both are huge victories.

Dashes · Dec 14, 2008

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MrSigmaDot40 wrote:

He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then:banghead:.

Too bad if we formed a Militia it would be considered an armed street gang.

Decoligny · Dec 14, 2008

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MrSigmaDot40 wrote:

S&W5906 wrote:

There is a Good Guys Car Show scheduled at the Alameda County Fair Gorunds in Pleasanton for Saturday, March 29 0800 - 1700 Hours and Sunday, March 30 0800 - 1600 hours. I am planning on attending and want to OC, however i have not found anything restricting OC at this venue..

Anyone know the specifics within this county, and is there anybody else attending this venue OCing?:question:

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Hey I missed this thread by some months but I'm looking for people to UOC with out here too. I'm from Oakland, send me a PM. I'm trying to at least get a list of people together. We Definitely have to do it in numbers for a while out here. You will get SWAT on you in a second by yourself until the LEO's learn the law.

One officer told me he would Prone me out at gun point and arrest me every time he saw me even if he knew who I was and what I was doing. He also told me that the 2A was only for Militias and doesn't apply anymore because there were no handguns back then:banghead:.

Then they must have been shooting these babies with thier feet during the revolutionary war.

hoffmang · Dec 14, 2008

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I just wanted to reiterate Lonnie above. With Nordyke being litigated about this specific prohibition (firearms at the fairgrounds) this could get bad press pickup. It could be the difference between a 3-0 victory in Nordyke and a 2-1.

We want the 3-0. We want the Second Amendment clearly applied. After Nordyke, you will be able to OC at the Fairgrounds.

-Gene

cato · Dec 15, 2008

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hoffmang wrote:

I just wanted to reiterate Lonnie above. With Nordyke being litigated about this specific prohibition (firearms at the fairgrounds) this could get bad press pickup. It could be the difference between a 3-0 victory in Nordyke and a 2-1.

We want the 3-0. We want the Second Amendment clearly applied. After Nordyke, you will be able to OC at the Fairgrounds.

-Gene

Welcome Gene!!!!

(of Calguns Foundation fame)

OC in Alameda County??

Justice76

Regular Member

marshaul

Campaign Veteran

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

Justice76

Regular Member

marshaul

Campaign Veteran

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

Dashes

New member

Decoligny

Regular Member

hoffmang

Regular Member

cato

Newbie