Response from Gov Kaine about bills SB476 and SB776 - won't admit he's wrong!

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apjonas wrote:

Well, it seems strange to specifically mention LEO's in J3, if they are already covered in B. I need to take a closer look. So, your opinion would be that your postman can carry concealed (without apermit) in a bar/licensed restaurant while on duty?

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Yes - if they are exempt from this section except for J1, then clearly they are exempt from J3 - further, 18.2-308.1 brings 'em in as exempted at k-12 schools. This statute has been amended so many times over the years you neve know what you might find!

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Based on the latest VCDL alert, I just fired off the following sample letter from the VCDL with the italicized text added!!

Sir:

It is grossly unfair that you have signed SB 776 into law! SB 776 allows off-duty, untrained, Commonwealth Attorneys and their deputies to carry a loaded handgun in a K-12 school, yet you have said that you are against concealed handgun permit holders, who do have training,
from doing the same!

An off-duty Commonwealth Attorney would not be at a school for any reason different than I would and I don't like being treated like a second-class citizen! Commonwealth attorneys are not carrying their
gun to enforce the laws, like a police officer. They are solely carrying a gun for self-defense, the same as me.

If you are comfortable with untrained attorneys carrying in a school, you should support legislation to allow concealed handgun permit holders to do the same.

This double standard combined with your comments on guns and alcohol not mixing which lead to your veto of SB 476 has me completely confounded. Please, if your response includes the words "this law is being misunderstood" or "contrary to some inaccurate information that has recently been circulating", don't send it at all because because the only inaccurate information is that which you have repeated when questioned about the inconsistencies. It's time you either accept responsibility for signing a law that you didn't fully understand, or provide the reason why you feel such double standards are acceptable.

Respectfully,
bayboy42

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I usually don't like to use the form letter because I am sure they get tons of those and don't pay that much attention to them. So I wrote to Kaine telling him how I really feel.

Dear Governor Kaine,

I would like to know how you can continue to deny your hypocrisy in signing SB 776. You continue to state that commonwealth attorneys CANNOT carry into restaurants that serve alcohol, yet based on the law as signed they CAN! How long will you keep lying to the citizens of Virginia?

Did you even read the bill before you signed it? There are only three possible reasons for your signing that bill. 1 - You are just a hypocrite and believe in "elite classes" of people that are better than average citizens. 2 - You read the bill, yet despite your Harvard law degree you did not understand it and signed it anyway. 3 - You did not read the bill and relied on the statements of your staffers (who did not understand the bill either) yet signed it anyway.

I lived in Richmond while you were mayor and did not care much for you then. I can disagree with a person on issues while still respecting them. But I have NO respect for you now. If you will come clean with the public, you will regain my respect even though I disagree with your policies. If you continue to deny what you did until you are red in the face, then you are no better than any other lying politician and should resign.

Sincerely,
vt357
Disappointed Citizen

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YEAH...WHAT VT357 SAID:exclaim:

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Maybe Kaine misspoke, Kinda like Hillary did. :uhoh:

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I lived in VA for 2 years, and was a resident (stationed out of state) for 2 more 2001-2005. Kaine is a joke, and you need to get rid of his type of governor and replace him with a conservative who understands the Constitution. And that will never be a democrap. Warner sucked, but was far better than this dick you have now. However, blame the Republicans for not running someone that can get elected. We have the same, exact situation here in Colorado. A jerk for a governor thanks to the liberals in Denver, Boulder, etc, when the vast majority of the state is conservative but can't seem to get excited about putting their ideology in the capital.

Get off your butts and do something about it. There is no reason for states like VA, CO, and NH to be stuck with assholes for governor when the majority of the people, if motivated, would vote some one competent in office. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." The same applies to 'incompetency."

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I just had a thought: Does this law, as written, allow CA's and DA's from other states to carry concealed in Virginia? Receprocity?

9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth.

It does not specify the "Commonwealth of Virginia"...

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I sent this:

Mr Kaine, I am truly distressed at the disrespect with which you have treated Virginia citizens who have the temerity to ask you to explain your double standards.

Not only have you vetoed legislation on March 3 that would have allowed trained persons to carry their weapons concealed instead of openly, in the same place they now carry, but on March 7 you signed legislation that allows possibly untrained persons to do exactly that. Commonwealth Attorneys may have training and permits, but they may not. The bar exam does not train them in firearms.

Further, when someone has the goldarned nerve to ask you to explain your utter disregard for the facts, you treat him as lower than dirt under your feet. You refuse to debate "the wording of the law", and you place blame at the feet of the State Police, who have never opposed concealed restaurant carry - in fact they stated in front of the courts of justice committee they had no opinion on the bill. THEY know that law-abiding citizens don't act like wild men just because they tuck their gun under their shirt instead of vice versa.

You have showed contempt for residents, and it's time they show contempt for you.

You OWE us an apology, and a recission of SB776 at your earliest opportunity.

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ODA 226 wrote:

I just had a thought: Does this law, as written, allow CA's and DA's from other states to carry concealed in Virginia? Receprocity?

9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth.

It does not specify the "Commonwealth of Virginia"...

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The only other Commonwealths are Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky, aren't they?

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ODA 226 wrote:

I just had a thought: Does this law, as written, allow CA's and DA's from other states to carry concealed in Virginia? Receprocity?

9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth.

It does not specify the "Commonwealth of Virginia"...

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1. The reciprocity agreements are formal agreements in writing. The terms of each would control. I think they are available on the web, perhaps the VA State Police website? With that said I kinda doubt it. The reciprocity agreements are usually addressing CCW permits. These fellas wouldn't be included since they wouldn't havea CCW permit.

2. The article "the" would be referring to Virginia.

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ODA 226 wrote:

I just had a thought: Does this law, as written, allow CA's and DA's from other states to carry concealed in Virginia? Receprocity?

9. Any attorney for the Commonwealth or assistant attorney for the Commonwealth, wherever such attorney may travel in the Commonwealth.

It does not specify the "Commonwealth of Virginia"...

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Section 1-300 through 1-313 of the Code of Virginia sets out the boundaries of "the Commonwealth" and it is clearly the entire Commonwealth of Virginia and no other place. While I didn't see anything that states something like "when used herein "the Commonwealth" will mean the entire Commonwealth of Virginia" the intent is clear from the first section. The older sections appear to use the term "this Commonwealth" and since the 1950 revision "the Commonwealth" seems to be the norm. Beyond that, I think it is safe to say that any time either term is used in the Code that it is refers explicity and solely to the Commonwealth of Virginia unless otherwise specifically noted as it is some places.

Code of Virginia § 1-300. Boundaries. The territory and boundaries of the Commonwealth shall be and remain the same as they were after the Constitution of Virginia was adopted on June 29, 1776, except for the territory that constitutes West Virginia and its boundaries, and other boundary adjustments as provided in this chapter.

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Thanks for the input. One more question: If CA's are given the same right to carry as are LEO's, wouldn't all CA's and DA's from any state or Commonwealth, be allowed to carry concealed anywhere in the US including Virginia under the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004? All of them have Conservator of the Peace status in Virginia.

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ODA 226 wrote:

Thanks for the input. One more question: If CA's are given the same right to carry as are LEO's, wouldn't all CA's and DA's from any state or Commonwealth, be allowed to carry concealed anywhere in the US including Virginia under the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004? All of them have Conservator of the Peace status in Virginia.

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I wouldn't think so simply because "sworn law enforcement officer" or some version of that wording is defined in all state statutes I have seen. Even in the VA statute under discussion, distinction is drawn between CAs and LEOs.

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deepdiver wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

Thanks for the input. One more question: If CA's are given the same right to carry as are LEO's, wouldn't all CA's and DA's from any state or Commonwealth, be allowed to carry concealed anywhere in the US including Virginia under the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004? All of them have Conservator of the Peace status in Virginia.

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I wouldn't think so simply because "sworn law enforcement officer" or some version of that wording is defined in all state statutes I have seen. Even in the VA statute under discussion, distinction is drawn between CAs and LEOs.

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Deepdiver,

That was my first impression also. However, CA's do have CoP status AND arrest authority in Virginia as unbelievable as that sounds.

I'm just trying to get this straight in my mind...has Kaine, by executive action, created a whole new "grey" legal area that would allow CA's and DA's from other states to have the right to carry concealed within the Commonwealth, in areas where legally armed citizens of Virginia cannot? An out of state LEO can carry concealed anywhere in Virginia. Since CA's are now under the same clause (as I understand it), wouldn't out of state CA's and DA's enjoy that same right?

I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I'm just trying to acertain whether or not Kaine has extended rights to out of state government employees that he refuses to grant to his own constituants.

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looks like our governor is a moron, ignant [sic], or a pathalogical liar

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The above categories are not mutually exclusive. It is indeed possible that one could hit the trifecta.

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ODA 226 wrote:

SNIP I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I'm just trying to acertain whether or not Kaine has extended rights to out of state government employees that he refuses to grant to his own constituants.

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VCDL has on their website copies of the reciprocity letters between VA and Ohio and Florida. I scanned the FL and Ohio letters. Its clearthey only apply to permit holders.

I'm not going to track down the other reciprocity agreements VA has with other states.

Unless the out-of-state CA or his deputy is also a permit holder from a reciprocity state, it looks like he's out of luck.

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You know, it occurs to me that an example might help ease his mind, if his real fear is about guns & alcohol.

Consider Nevada. I think most people would agree there's hardly a place like Las Vegas, especially when it comes to alcohol. Gamblers get unlimited free drinks. Bars are open 24 hrs a day. Every grocery store has beer, wine and liquor, also available 24 hrs a day. Some places even have "all you can drink" specials for cheap (e.g. $10 all the beer you can drink). And though technically illegal, but tolerated on the strip, plenty of folks drinking while walking down the street (coincidentally, open containers are completely legal (Drunk in Public is not) within the actual CITY of Las Vegas - city code 10.76.010 -- 1000 ft from any place that sells alcohol, that might be challenging, but otherwise perfectly legal).

And there aren't rampant alcohol induced shootings. In fact, I think most shootings here are drug induced and have little or nothing to do with with alcohol.

The law is very clear. Possession of a firearm with a Blood Alcohol level of less than 0.10 is completely fine (NRS 202.257).

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timf343 wrote:

snip
In fact, I think most shootings here are drug induced and have little or nothing to do with with alcohol.
snip

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I think stats would bear out your point entirely. But your point is predicated upon Kaine and other anti's having a rational argument about guns based on facts. Unfortunately, anti-gunners' mottos are "let's not confuse the issue with facts" and "facts are irrelevant when I am having an emotional moment" and "my (husband/wife/daughter/son) died from gun violence so I have absolute moral authority to disarm you and make you a victim just like my (husband/wife/daughter/son)." Critical thinking is not their strong suit.

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I hope someone asks him about this on ASK THE GOVRNOR on WRVA this morning

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Skeptic wrote:

I hope someone asks him about this on ASK THE GOVRNOR on WRVA this morning

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Someone did (first call), he continues to say CA can't carry into restaurants b/c only "Sworn Officers" can do that. Of course they cut you off so you can't call him on it.