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Thread: Stopped at wal-mart AGAIN

  1. #1
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    So this was the same store from this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/8804.html

    For those who haven't read that encounter, I'll summarize briefly. I was stopped by an Asst. Manager saying I couldn't carry in the store, but after he called the Store Manager, he changed his tune and said that it wasn't a problem as long as people didn't freak out. Over all he was very professional and, other than the waste of time, it was a good encounter.

    So anyway, I have been in that store a couple of times since opening day without incident. Coincidentally I had always been wearing a black shirt with a black gun, so that may have kept people from noticing. Today I happened to be wearing a khaki colored shirt, and was by myself. I didn't even make it past the greeters at the door...

    Greeter 1 (G1): White male, 60's, well spoken

    Greeter 2 (G2): Black male, 40's, heavy southern drawl

    Asst. Manager (A.J.): Black male, 30's, well spoken

    G1: (steps in front of me) You can't have that in the store, you'll have to leave.

    Me: Ya know I actually just spoke to one of your Asst. Managers a few weeks ago about that. He ended up speaking to the Store Manager and then told me that everything was fine.

    G1: Well they told us you can't bring that in here. I can go get a manager, but you have to wait right here.

    Me: No problem.

    G2: So whatcha got there?

    Me: Oh, he's going to get the Manager to clarify that I can carry in the store. I wish I could remember the name of the other Manager I had spoken to..

    G2: Yeah? Lets see that.. (he was moving VERY close to my strong side)

    Me: It's a gun :?. I'm not gonna take it out of the holster.

    G2: Oh yeah ok.. So who are you with?

    Me: ...I'm not with anyone. I carry for self protection.

    (The Asst. Manager walks up)

    Me:Hi, how are you?

    A.J.: Uh hi, so whats going on?

    Me: Well I was in here a few weeks ago, actually opening day, and I ended up speaking to an Asst. Manager..I don't remember his name. Anyway he wasn't sure that I could carry in the store, so we talked for a moment, then he called the Store Manager. He came back and said that the Store Manager said it was fine!

    A.J.: Ok, well if you could wait here, I'll go find out. (he walked to a register to use the phone)

    (at this point, I made conversation with G2 since it was an awkward moment)

    Me: But yeah, it's interesting that you guys have heard something different from what the Store Manager has said. I've never had any problems carrying in the Morehead City wal-mart.

    G2: Well see I trained at the Morehead wal-mart for 2 weeks, and what they told us there is that we're supposed to take the gun from you and wait for a manager to show up. Then we'll give it back to you if you're allowed in the store, or maybe we might have to call the police. That's why I asked to see it. (he started getting really close again)

    Me: Really? That's surprising! I've never heard that before! Oh well here comes the Manager..

    A.J.: Ok, here's the deal. You're fine to have that in here, but if customers start getting scared or concerned then we reserve the right to ask you to leave.

    Me: Well of course, you can always ask someone to leave. So we're good here?

    A.J.: Yeah, you're fine.

    Me: Ok, thank you.

    I shook his hand, and the hands of the two greeters, and thanked them for being professional about things. I then proceeded to pick up what I needed and leave without further incident.

    I've been on the fence about purchasing a voice recorder, since I don't really have the money right now, but now I'm regretting not having one. That greeter honestly wanted to take my gun! After this incident I'm thinking I need to write a letter to someone, but then again I don't want to call any more attention to myself than necessary. Perhaps a letter to this illusive Store Manager, asking them to educate ALL of their employees, might be in order. What do you guys think? Oh, and if anyone wants to buy me a voice recorder, feel free! :celebrate


  2. #2
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    Good to hear that everything worked out. Be careful with the voice recorder. Two gentlemen who were OC'ing were arrested because they had recording devices on them. Be sure to checkout your state laws. Outcome is yet to be determined.



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/9080.html



    Ken

  3. #3
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    Puddin99 wrote:
    Good to hear that everything worked out. Be careful with the voice recorder. Two gentlemen who were OC'ing were arrested because they had recording devices on them. Be sure to checkout your state laws. Outcome is yet to be determined.



    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/9080.html



    Ken
    I appreciate the concern, but NC is a single party consent State, so as long as I am aware that the conversation is being recorded, it is perfectly legal.

  4. #4
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    So is Oregon, and it was even out in the open, the recorder, unconcealed.



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    This is egregious.

    That can't possibly be *ANY* company's policy. For Christ's sake, "floor" employees can't even stop or reprimand shoplifters! What kind of Commando Greeter thinks he can take your gun, legal or no?!?!

  6. #6
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    conwict wrote:
    This is egregious.

    That can't possibly be *ANY* company's policy. For Christ's sake, "floor" employees can't even stop or reprimand shoplifters! What kind of Commando Greeter thinks he can take your gun, legal or no?!?!
    lol I KNOW! I had this "are..you...seerious???!!" look on my face when he said that. No offense to anyone, but this guy was the standard wal-mart greeter. His speech patterns, appearance,and demeanor led me to believe that he's a few fries short of a happy meal.

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    "G2: Well see I trained at the Morehead wal-mart for 2 weeks, and what they told us there is that we're supposed to take the gun from you and wait for a manager to show up. Then we'll give it back to you if you're allowed in the store, or maybe we might have to call the police. That's why I asked to see it. (he started getting really close again)"

    Take YOUR gun? Aw hell no. Not today, and not yesterday or tomorrow, either. Can you even see that happening? Some greetin' schmuck taking and handling your sidearm? (IMHO would get him shot if not worse) Those kinda moments want to make you channel Charlton Heston's "...from my cold, dead hands."

    You know, they'd never hassle LEO, ever. They'd never ask to take his firearm and "hold on to it". It's ok for the law to be armed but not you.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    Thankless Work: When Greeters Have to Take the Law* (And Your Gun) Into Their Own Hands
    They're tough...they're ready to do what they have to do...and they were trained at the Morehead Wal-mart for two weeks. What are you going to do when they come for your gun?

    *or some permutation thereof

  9. #9
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    Custodian wrote:
    "G2: Well see I trained at the Morehead wal-mart for 2 weeks, and what they told us there is that we're supposed to take the gun from you and wait for a manager to show up. Then we'll give it back to you if you're allowed in the store, or maybe we might have to call the police. That's why I asked to see it. (he started getting really close again)"

    Take YOUR gun? Aw hell no. Not today, and not yesterday or tomorrow, either. Can you even see that happening? Some greetin' schmuck taking and handling your sidearm? (IMHO would get him shot if not worse) Those kinda moments want to make you channel Charlton Heston's "...from my cold, dead hands."

    You know, they'd never hassle LEO, ever. They'd never ask to take his firearm and "hold on to it". It's ok for the law to be armed but not you.
    Ya know, now that you say that I do remember him asking me very briefly if I was a LEO. Well, he asked who I was with...the implication was there. I'll add that to the script, lol.

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    What a joke man. I'll be damned if a door greeter at Wal-Mart is going to"hold" my firearm till I get the "ok" from management.

    I've been meaning to pick up one of those Kimber "life act" things for a while now. This story has me wanting to get one. If you come at me wanting to take my gun without a badge on and you keep coming you get shot in the face with OC gel.

  11. #11
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    MOLON LABE!

  12. #12
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    +1 on the lifeact. Stuff looks good, I'd like to find a story of someone using it.

  13. #13
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    I mean we can try it out you attempt to take my gun i spray you we find out how well it works haha jk.


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    Sopousedly it has a warning saying not to shoot it at contact range or it can break the skin.

    Well if it gets to that point you having some bleeding really irrated skin is the least of my concerns.

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    yeh my thing is you shouldnt play with guns mr walmart greeter. Its not my fault u were stupid. ass hole dont you know that could cause you to get shot.

  16. #16
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    Or to be more "family friendly" when they try to take your gun just spray silly string on 'em! If you have kids with you that will break the tension! I'd love to see a surveillence video of that.

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    conwict wrote:
    This is egregious.

    That can't possibly be *ANY* company's policy. For Christ's sake, "floor" employees can't even stop or reprimand shoplifters! What kind of Commando Greeter thinks he can take your gun, legal or no?!?!
    My thoughts EXACTLY


    Original poster: Are you sure the greeter wasn't kidding you about taking your weapon ? I mean it's unbelievable that any store would have such a asinine policy.

    What's next?

    " excuse me we need to confiscate your weapon and test fire a few rounds out back before we let you shop."

  18. #18
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    conwict wrote:
    This is egregious.

    That can't possibly be *ANY* company's policy. For Christ's sake, "floor" employees can't even stop or reprimand shoplifters! What kind of Commando Greeter thinks he can take your gun, legal or no?!?!
    My thoughts EXACTLY


    Original poster: Are you sure the greeter wasn't kidding you about taking your weapon ? I mean it's unbelievable that any store would have such a asinine policy.

    What's next?

    " excuse me we need to confiscate your weapon and test fire a few rounds out back before we let you shop."

  19. #19
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    conwict wrote:
    This is egregious.

    That can't possibly be *ANY* company's policy. For Christ's sake, "floor" employees can't even stop or reprimand shoplifters! What kind of Commando Greeter thinks he can take your gun, legal or no?!?!
    My thoughts EXACTLY


    Original poster: Are you sure the greeter wasn't kidding you about taking your weapon ? I mean it's unbelievable that any store would have such a asinine policy.

    What's next?

    " excuse me we need to confiscate your weapon and test fire a few rounds out back before we let you shop."

  20. #20
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    I'm positive. :?

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    You know, this is the same store that will have employees flag you down to check your receipt even though you entered into no contract or agreed to do so (unlike in a warehouse club, say Sam's club in which to check your receipt is in club policy) after you have made your purchase. When you buy something, it's yours like the clothes you walked into the store with.

    However, there is some legal wiggle room...

    From the Law Guy


    Important fine print
    [i]The owner/operator of this website is Bryan Gates8:12 am pdt

    shopkeeper's privilege." If the suspected shoplifter is under 18, the merchant must make reasonable efforts to contact the minor's parents.[/size][/font][/size][/font][/color] The law does not authorize the merchant to search the person or order him to empty his pockets. The suspected shoplifter does not have to submit to a search. The merchant has to contact a law enforcement officer, who then has to decide if their is probable cause to arrest. I can't think of any reason why mall security would be prohibited from photographing the child. While unconsented touching is battery, it is not neccessary to get someone's consent to take his photo if the person is in a public place. That does not mean that the store is free to use the photo any way it chooses. If a person believes the merchant acted unreasonably or there was no probable cause to believe that the person had shoplifted he could sue the merchant for false arrest or false imprisonment. The jury would be instructed that if the merchant proves he acted reasonably and had probable cause, the merchant would not be liable.
    From http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...S_14-72.1.html

    § 14‑72.1. Concealment of merchandise in mercantile establishments. (a) Whoever, without authority, willfully conceals the goods or merchandise of any store, not theretofore purchased by such person, while still upon the premises of such store, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be punished as provided in subsection (e). Such goods or merchandise found concealed upon or about the person and which have not theretofore been purchased by such person shall be prima facie evidence of a willful concealment.
    (b) Repealed by Session Laws 1985 (Regular Session, 1986), c. 841, s. 2.
    (c) A merchant, or the merchant's agent or employee, or a peace officer who detains or causes the arrest of any person shall not be held civilly liable for detention, malicious prosecution, false imprisonment, or false arrest of the person detained or arrested, where such detention is upon the premises of the store or in a reasonable proximity thereto, is in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time, and, if in detaining or in causing the arrest of such person, the merchant, or the merchant's agent or employee, or the peace officer had at the time of the detention or arrest probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense created by this section. If the person being detained by the merchant, or the merchant's agent or employee, is a minor under the age of 18 years, the merchant or the merchant's agent or employee, shall call or notify, or make a reasonable effort to call or notify the parent or guardian of the minor, during the period of detention. A merchant, or the merchant's agent or employee, who makes a reasonable effort to call or notify the parent or guardian of the minor shall not be held civilly liable for failing to notify the parent or guardian of the minor.
    (d) Whoever, without authority, willfully transfers any price tag from goods or merchandise to other goods or merchandise having a higher selling price or marks said goods at a lower price or substitutes or superimposes thereon a false price tag and then presents said goods or merchandise for purchase shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be punished as provided in subsection (e).
    Nothing herein shall be construed to provide that the mere possession of goods or the production by shoppers of improperly priced merchandise for checkout shall constitute prima facie evidence of guilt.
    (d1) Notwithstanding subsection (e) of this section, any person who violates subsection (a) of this section by using a lead‑lined or aluminum‑lined bag, a lead‑lined or aluminum‑lined article of clothing, or a similar device to prevent the activation of any antishoplifting or inventory control device is guilty of a Class H felony.
    (e) Punishment. – For a first conviction under subsection (a) or (d), or for a subsequent conviction for which the punishment is not specified by this subsection, the defendant shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. The term of imprisonment may be suspended only on condition that the defendant perform community service for a term of at least 24 hours. For a second offense committed within three years after the date the defendant was convicted of an offense under this section, the defendant shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. The term of imprisonment may be suspended only on condition that the defendant be imprisoned for a term of at least 72 hours as a condition of special probation, perform community service for a term of at least 72 hours, or both. For a third or subsequent offense committed within five years after the date the defendant was convicted of two other offenses under this section, the defendant shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. The term of imprisonment may be suspended only if a condition of special probation is imposed to require the defendant to serve a term of imprisonment of at least 11 days. However, if the sentencing judge finds that the defendant is unable, by reason of mental or physical infirmity, to perform the service required under this section, and the reasons for such findings are set forth in the judgment, the judge may pronounce such other sentence as the judge finds appropriate.
    (f) Community Service Period. – If the judgment requires a defendant sentenced under this section to perform a specified number of hours of community service, the community service must be completed within:
    (1) 90 days, if the amount of community service required is 72 hours or more;
    (2) 60 days, if the amount of community service required is at least 48 hours but less than 72 hours; and
    (3) 30 days, if the amount of community service required is at least 24 hours but less than 48 hours.
    The court may extend these time limits upon motion of the defendant if it finds that the defendant has made a good faith effort to comply with the time limits specified in this subsection. Failure to complete the community service requirement within the applicable time limits is a violation of the defendant's probation.
    (g) Limitations. – For active terms of imprisonment imposed under this section:
    (1) The judge may not give credit to the defendant for the first 24 hours of time spent in incarceration pending trial;
    (2) The defendant must serve the mandatory minimum period of imprisonment and good or gain time credit may not be used to reduce that mandatory minimum period; and
    (3) The defendant may not be released or paroled unless he is otherwise eligible and has served the mandatory minimum period of imprisonment. (1957, c. 301; 1971, c. 238; 1973, c. 457, ss. 1, 2; 1985 (Reg. Sess., 1986), c. 841, ss. 1‑3; 1987, c. 660; 1993, c. 539, s. 35; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); c. 28, s. 1; 1995, c. 185, s. 3; c. 509, s. 9; 1997‑80, s. 1; 1997‑443, s. 19.25(ff).)

    And this rule goes doubley so in Tiger Direct stores in Raleigh-Durham where a Securitas guard is posted right at the damn register( like 7 feet, tops). I mean c'mon, and its like the guard is trying not to look at you pay for your item and still trying to check your receipt four seconds afterwards.


    Also, any private security guard who gathers evidence outside of your rights can still be used against you if the police had no prior knowledge or gave no instruction to the guard. So a rent-a-cop could tackle you (like I've seen in a Target), search you illegally, by pass your Fourth Amendment and it can still hold water against you. (I use to be a guard, and they do teach this nonsense, off the books)


    The point?

    If they can detain and harass you on suspect of shoplifting in North Carolina, don't be surprised that they will try some other garbage too. Especially, if it involves firearms and your safety.


    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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